and another trailer build

[tatra805]

next: Building a trailer

I intend to build a trailer in the coming days which should go with the TL, and only with the TL.

A commercial grade trailer does not stand the time (manure is agressive) and is constructed to be light and cheap, that was not an option. Agricultural trailers for small tractors are or too small or way out of budget.

My requirements:

- build to last, payload of 2 ton (volume more important than weight but construction wise able to be loaded without worries about flexing metal)
- not wider than the tractor
- can be loaded without the tractor attached
- prepared for installing a tipping cylinder (dont have aux hydraulics yet so thats for later but influences the design)

I do have a 2ton military trailer frame which i will use as base. This trailer has leaf springs which i will remove. I intend to use the axle and have the hubs converted to take 5 bolt landrover wheels. Wheel size will be 235/85R16, around 80cm high wheels what brings the frame and so the hitch a couple of cm higher than 40cm, and exactly in line with the original towpoint on the TL.

Here it is:

As you can see the wheels have brakes, i dont want to install a run-up brake mechanism but will install a handbrake mechanism.

The support feet will be relocated to help stability when loading (might skip them and just make something more sturdy)

The loadbed wil have to be ---_____---- shaped (whole length for the dumping feature) to accomodate the wheels (TL is not wide) i dont want to make a platorm as this would higher the whole trailer and make it unstable. (i was thinking about a double axle flatbed but that would limit me in maneuvering around the place too much.

Bottom part between the wheels will be around 0.9 meter and the top wings widen it to 125-130cm, lenght 2meter and complete lenght of the trailer 2.8 meter. (my gangway in the stable is 3 meter wide so i should be able to turn the empty trailer by hand)

Grid sides (removable) to load the manure, split wood etc and a when removed a base for transporting bales of straw (2 meter long so only 30cm overhang)

More to follow as progress goes, all input welcome this is my first trailerbuilding attempt.

 

[tatra805]

Started tonight.

Base frame and 'the hinge' are finished.

Decided on position of axle etc
Ready for tomorrow.

Now, just some ranting

Bought a new bunch of electrodes, shop did not have my usual brand and i am these things just dont weld as it should be. 6013 is 6013 or not? Yes the other ones had a red end and were base type but typenumber id was 6013. (both are from "big" brands)
Well these new ones made me go over almost each weld. Even checked the mains voltage to see if that was the cause or something but no, same batch of metal as the implements i was making earlier last week, same place, same welder, same weather.....

 

[ultrarunner]

Any chance the new 6013 are damp from moisture? Did they come in a sealed container?

 

[PineRidge]

If you suspect the rods have drawn moisture you can "bake them" to dry them out. I have done so in the past. I keep my rods in airtight containers like this

 

[tatra805]

rods are ESAB 6013 came in sealed pack of 250 pcs.

I bought one pack 3,xx mm about 3 months ago, never used them and a couple of days ago a pack of 2.5mm. i opened both at the same moment when the other brand pack was finished.

It are the rods, i tell you quality is different and my limited welding experience (all trial and error never any schooling) does not compensate.

I should search back the old pack in the wastebin and find out what the difference is. I bought them in belgium so they were opened minimum 4.5 years, just stored in the shed, winter and summer, no care taken en no problems.

Really bothers me

 

[Taylortractornut]

Tatra Ive had the same experience with ESAB and Lincoln rods to. i usually weld with a Hobart rod or a Mackay rods. Mostly what I use is 7018. To me the ESAB is very goopy. Good looking trailer there, I need a small dump trailer for around the yard where I cant get my dup truck to I have a bed already framed up from the cab of a warehouse lift.

 

[Renze]

Tatra805, where do you live ? You said you bought electrodes in Belgium, and a Tatra 805 is the Czech equivalent of the MB Unimog...

 

[tatra805]

Didnt look for the box of the old ones yet, in any case the esab things only weld horizontal and even that is a hassle. I'll reserve them for scrap welding for some gate posts which will be put in concrete afterwards and look for some good rods asap.

Renze,

I am original from the region of Gent. I had my tatra805 in belgium and bought it in Slovakia. (that time i was about half time in slovakia for my job) After the whole reconstruction of the tatra which took 2 years of daily a couple of hours i moved to.... slovakia and took the tatra with me again. (live here now permanently for 4 years) Funny detail about that was that i had to get permission for export from the ministry of culture in slovakia but when i wanted to re-import the tatra i got the message from the ministry of transport that the car was too old to be put back on the road in slovakia ????!!!!

You are right about the unimog-tatra relation in that way that the unimog is a (poor mechanical) copy just as the volkswagen beetle is based on the plans (stolen from tatra by some engineers for porsche) of the T-57 (if i recall the number correctly).

Now, about the trailer, some more pictures:

Left the axe free (only bolted down) so i can still move it once everything is finished and i actually can feel and see the real balancepoints.

Looking at height and proportions all limited by the 125cm width of the TL i had to change plans a bit an skip the -----________----- loadbed idea. I will have a smaller load capacity this way but the thing would be completely out of proportion (and entering the +300kg empty range). So a usefull cargo volume of 80x200x40 without side extensions and 80x200x80 with the side extensions. Gives 0.64 and 1.28 cubic meters. or if loaded with manure a load of 0.6 or 1.2 ton. just within target range.

I figured in the mean time i will need a 40cm (80 extended) hydraulic cylinder to lift. Wheelhubs are in the make when Zoro finds a spare moment so maybe in a couple of days i can actually move the trailer on its wheels. Christmas is putting a brake on things, small village so no grinders or chainsaws to be used in these days. Maybe i if i use enough cutting fluid i can drill something and a welder will look as some celebration fireworks...

In any case a Merry Christmas to you all!

 

[Renze]

You are right about the unimog-tatra relation in that way that the unimog is a (poor mechanical) copy just as the volkswagen beetle is based on the plans (stolen from tatra by some engineers for porsche) of the T-57 (if i recall the number correctly).

Yes thats right: Hans Ledwinka was the engineer who held about 20 patents, used in the T-570 prototype. He discussed these with his engineering friend, Ferdinand Porsche. ****** put pressure on Porsche to develope a "peoples car" as a propaganda stunt. In this short timespan, Porsche broke 20 of the patents applied to the Tatra T570 prototype. In 1961, VW payd 3 million reichsmark to Tatra for breaking those patents. They got away with a steal, paying 8 Reichsmark and 33 cents for every one of the 25 million Beetles ever made....

You're right the T-805 is a better offroad chassis with its independent suspension, though it never became such a cult car as the Unimog in Western Europe, and even America.
Anti-east propaganda still holds up around here, even though its allmost 20 years since the iron curtain fell...

 

[tatra805]

next small steps


While the floor plate (2mm metal) is in place I am now little stuck with shortage of materials to continue the side plates.

So i played a bit with the brakes and made an own mechanism to apply the brakes. Old style turning to apply the brake but that should also work i asume.

Then i cut of the front support and mounted a jocky-wheel i had laying around. The wheel is mounted in such position that when locked and folded up the small wheel is horizontal and not sticking out / hanging lower than the axle. Saw to many of them torn off in ditches not to care.

Vertical

Horizontal

Oh, and today i went for some firewood. Does not look as much but once back on the road i noticed that the tyres of the trailer were looking heavily under inflated. After unloading i drove near the compressor and ....i had 2.5 bar in them . Suppose that this walnut wood is quite dense.

Iseki was behaving great on his first real outing. (fyi, the white house on the right side of the picture is at the other bank of the valley, the wood i am getting comes from the stream down this valley, so had my first serious up and downhill experience) Happy owner, tomorrow i go back for 2 loads and in the afternoon i have to move some ground with the neighbour.

 

[tatra805]

Do you also have this dip-period during projects where no progress is made because of no reason.You stand looking at your "thing" you made and you just cant like it but dont know why?

Well, i figured i was not happy with the load volume and the optics after putting the wheels on and narrowing the axle.

So, today i jumped on it again and decided that if i was building this trailer, which i suppose is a 1 time thing, i could as well take some risks if the outcome would satisfy me more.

Here the results:

Not the perfect way but i cut out 45 degrees triangles from the original side and folded the whole assembly. Well it worked out.

In the back i added a support which will make a nice light frame also.

The top part of the sides can be flipped in any position holing it with a chain for eg free hay loading, and in the complete down position allows for easier hand loading from the side.

Now still a door frame for the back and the metal plate sides and it starts to look as a mature trailer.

Load volume increased to 2.25m3. big enough for about too much of everything!

 

[Bedlam]

Looks nice...Great job so far I like the idea..

 

[DMF]

Keep up the good work! I am in need of a "tipping trailer" as well so your progress is very interesting to me!

 

[tatra805]

thanks for the comments!

I might need some advise on the hydraulics so keep tuned.

Once the construction is done i want to measure a bit how much cylinder i will need to put.

I am playing around with the idea of putting 2 "outboard" cylinders instead of 1 central one. Any opinions on this type of set up?


Another thing is the doorframe. I first wanted to make a self opening vertical up-swing door. (mechanical link system that opens the door when tipping) But will abandon that idea as it might not be that practical for "general purpose".

I am now thinking about a 2 wing horizontal swingdoor setup.(classic doors) That would require to open it manually before tipping but has the benefit that the doors can be left open when transporting larger objects.

OR I make a vertical swing frame which holds 2 wing classic doors and i have both in 1.....

 

[tatra805]

So yesterday i made the doorframe and the doors for the trailer. Just a couple of pics.

The frame is bolted onto the back of the trailer so i can remove it but also in such a way that i can swing it down. With the whole construction being made sturdy enough it must be possible to use the doorframe as a loading ramp for small wheeled things. (wheelbarrows etc)

As closing mechanism i want to use the same principle as found on truck trailer doors. This also reinforces the driving ramp idea.

Going shopping for some hinges and the locking bits for the sides and then still the metal siding.
Hope to be ready with it by the weekend.




edit: I just realized that it is 1 month today since my first post / start of the build. Done a couple of other things also and it was mainly work in the dark hours but starts to be time to have this trailer finished.

 

[tatra805]

Snowstorm yesterday evening while temps were rising. Today, perfect weather and all looks 'spring'

Time for an outside photoshoot:

more ...

 

[tatra805]

hope you like it

 

[tatra805]

Hydraulics are coming near.

When going for 2 outboard cylinders i would use:

2.5/1.5 400-800 tilt cylinders from the FEL ( and upgrade the FEL cylinders to get more tilt force)

this would give me at 2000psi and an angle of:

20 2x 2015lbs = 4030 lbs push
30 2x 4909lbs = 9818 lbs push
45 2x 6942lbs = 13884 lbs push

going from a 2 ton load and taking in consideration the pivot point of the loadbed i would need 2200lbs to dump.
So i guess i have to find and angle between 20 and 30 (i also presume that the tractor is not giving 2000psi, but have no idea how far off)

Mounting the cylinders is a bit of a mystery to me, Attached 2 pictures showing where and how i want to mount them.

Ideas, remarks?

 

[czechsonofagun]

Do you also have this dip-period during projects where no progress is made because of no reason.You stand looking at your "thing" you made and you just cant like it but dont know why?

Yes, I call it brewing of the project. Sometimes I just know I will have to do it more complicated because it just plain makes sense, but it takes time to admit it to myself.

But the trailer is really good looking. Truly versatile, I will copy it one day when there is a need.

 

[MJPetersen]

Sometimes I just know I will have to do it more complicated because it just plain makes sense, but it takes time to admit it to myself.

Isn't that the truth. For a week now I have been "thinking about" the dump for my rear scoop (since I put the quick hitch on it is hard to reach the trip handle), but I have procrastinated, because i did not want to do it the way I thought that it should--I tried different combinations, but finally yesterday I admitted to my self that I just needed to "do it." I was spending more time dinking with it than it would take to just do it right. Hopefully I will finish it today and will post a picture of what I have done on the thread for the quick hitch. So yes, indecision is a BIG time waster! (But so is going off in the wrong direction).


Mike