Anyone in the market for a midsize car? I was.

[tractorshopper]

RollingsFarms, we got the Titanium with the Ecoboost engine. Sorry about the late response, haven't checked this thread in a few days. This thing is loaded. We keep vehicles a long time to get the most out of them so tend to get the loaded options.

 

[CHDinCT]

Ask around, if you don't know the reputation of the dealer already. Sometimes (under factory pressure, unofficially) a dealer will deliberately overfill, to avoid documenting oil consumption on a known defect - it is a pretty old story.

Rgds, D.

I've been dealing with this dealer since 2003 and have had good service from them, but I think you're right on this one. As soon as I mentioned the oil consumption, oil changes from the dealer resulted in an overfill situation. I did wonder, like you stated, that maybe this is a Honda policy on the V6s that consume oil. That or the dealer is overfilling them as a bit of insurance against the average customer that never checks his/her oil level between changes.

 

[Peacock]

Not any type of Honda policy. Just crappy dealer work.

 

[KubotainNH]

I've owned and wrenched on almost all the brands available in the US. Honda and Toyota have always been the best and easiest to work on. The components used are far and away better than most of the others and crush so called domestic cars. Right now we have a Jeep, 2 Hondas and an Audi. The Audi is the newest at an 01. My daughters Civic is a 92 with about 250k on it and it still purrs. The other Honda is an 00 van with over 150k. The trannies are weak in this van but Honda replaced it for free at 85k and I was the second owner. I don't see the domestics doing that. Jeep is a 99 with 135k and is rotting away, front end parts, drums, rotors replaced twice, mufflers/pipes multiple times. Van only had the pads replaced and tires. A couple other minor issues. Niece has a 99 Camry, can't kill that thing. I'll be sticking with Toyota or Honda.

The Hondas do seem to prefer Michelin tires.

 

[3v0]

Used to be that by the time the oil light came on the damage was done. Maybe they are using more sensitive sensing circuits.

 

[CHDinCT]

My wife drives an '08 Accrod V6, which was my car until we traded in her Pilot on my '10 F-150. Car has about 50K on it now. I will agree with comments that it has a lot of road noise, especially compared to my F-150, but of course you're riding a lot closer to the road in any sedan vs pickup. I don't agree that it's boring to drive, especially with the V6, which is peppy when you step on it. I find it rather sporty to drive, and the original Michellins are holding up well. I will say that we could never get the Honda dealer to properly balance the tires but getting a road force balance at my Ford dealer fixed that and it's never driven as well as it does now. One minor issue is that the plastic seat base trim on the driver's side popped loose and would require a complete seat removal to put it back together, so I'm gonna try gluing it first, and if that doesn't work, maybe a trim head screw inconspicuously placed may be in order.

I think '08 was the first year Honda put variable cylinder mgt on the V6's, so it runs on either 3 or 4 cylinders when possible, which is usually highway driving. I have mixed opinions on it. I do like the added milage you get when highway cruising - did 30 mpg on a long trip back from NC. But, I find that without the cruise on, I have to concentrate on holding a steady speed, otherwise it tends to drop MPH if you're not constantly re-adjusting pedal position manually. This is more of an issue when driving hillier terrain and at speeds under about 65 mph. If you can run the car at 75 mph or higher, it holds speed much better with the VCM kicking in and out. Now, the real issues is that about 2 years ago when the car had around 30K on it, the check engine light came on when my wife was coming home from shopping. She said the car ran real rough and wouldn't make any power (but of course she drove it home anyway). Since it was under warranty, I had it flatbedded to the dealer. The diagnoses was fouled plugs on 2 of the cylinders and a needed computer update. After experiencing this issue, seems there are quite a few similar issues posted on line by other V6 owners.

To boot, the car has always used some oil between changes, which we do every 5k. It will use about 1-1.5 quarts between oil changes, which of course the dealer says is within spec. I am watching to see if it gets any worse. This is the first new car we've owned that uses oil. Have had 4-5 Toyotas, a Honda Pilot and several Subaru's that never used oil. My F-150 seems fine so far. I still like the car overall and if the oil consumption doesn't get any worse and we don't have any more fouled plug issues, I'd be keeping it for as long as possible, but we'll see.

An unfortunate Accord V6 update. Check engine light came on again last week for two days. On the day I decided to take it into the dealer it went out. I still dropped by the dealer but since the light was out and the wait to read the codes was 1.5 hours I decided not to wait. I had reset the gas cap a day earlier. Service consultant said it was probably a loose gas cap and not to worry if the light was out. Okie dokie!

A week later, this morning in fact, I started up the car and both the check engine and VSM (stability control) lights came on. Shut it off and restarted and just the check engine light came on. We decided since we were doing some errands down near the dealer to just bring it in. This time the light stayed on. Again, the wait was estimated at 1.5 hours before they could get to it. When they finally read the codes, it was four fouled plugs. This is about 17K miles after the same issue 2 years ago. The good news is they replaced all four plugs and did a computer update for no charge. They're lucky they didn't try to charge me, cause I would not have prevented my wife from ripping them a new one - she can get quite excited if you know what I mean.

Anyway, I realized that both incidents happened soon after long highway trips where the engine was running on less than 6 cylinders. First time was a few weeks after we took a trip to NC. This time, we had driven to Philadelphia to visit our daughter the weekend before. Of course the service manager, who I spoke to, said he wasn't aware of any issues like this on the V6's with VCM (variable cylinder mgt). However, the service consultant said he's seen a few cases, which I interpret as probably more than just a few. But, he said he has an accord V6, same year and hasn't had any issues with it. I guess we're just the lucky ones. I do think some of these V6's with VCM have this issue. I have seen reports on line. I have to admit, we are going to seriously consider trading it for a small SUV, which my wife would prefer anyway. I hate to have to trade out of a car that's paid for and that I really like driving otherwise. It's that or change the plugs every two years and keep topping off the oil.

 

[3930dave]

Chris - thanks for the update.

If it was my car, and was past warranty, I'd look into shutting Off/locking out the cylinder De-Activation, as a test. Not sure if a dealer would play ball on that move, you may need an independent Honda specialist. With any luck, it would just take a high-end diagnostic programmer to lock Off the VCM.

Under certain conditions (long distance driving, ultra flat roads, no head-wind) I can see the de-activated pistons running relatively cool - a challenge for the ring metallurgy, and a possible explanation for higher oil consumption.

If the oil consumption went down with the VCM locked Off, I'd be tempted to just leave it locked Off. Unless you regularily drive across the continent, I'd take the slight hit on mileage over the behaviour you're seeing.

Changing plugs at 17k almost puts you back to an early '70s leaded gas maintenance cycle - I'd try and address this by shutting the VCM
off. Depending how that worked out then I'd look at the new SUV. :2cents:

Rgds, D.

 

[Diamondpilot]

This is one of the many reasons I will not own a truck or car with cylinder deactivation. Too many side effect issues.

Chris

 

[CowboyRon]

Chris - thanks for the update.

If it was my car, and was past warranty, I'd look into shutting Off/locking out the cylinder De-Activation, as a test. Not sure if a dealer would play ball on that move, you may need an independent Honda specialist. With any luck, it would just take a high-end diagnostic programmer to lock Off the VCM.

Under certain conditions (long distance driving, ultra flat roads, no head-wind) I can see the de-activated pistons running relatively cool - a challenge for the ring metallurgy, and a possible explanation for higher oil consumption.

If the oil consumption went down with the VCM locked Off, I'd be tempted to just leave it locked Off. Unless you regularily drive across the continent, I'd take the slight hit on mileage over the behaviour you're seeing.

Changing plugs at 17k almost puts you back to an early '70s leaded gas maintenance cycle - I'd try and address this by shutting the VCM
off. Depending how that worked out then I'd look at the new SUV. :2cents:

Rgds, D.

Instead of waiting for the dealer to tell you what your fault code is you could try an android app called torque. The app is $5 and an it connects via Bluetooth to a dongle you can buy at Amazon for $20.
It gives you all the fault codes and lots more info on your car like the expensive diagnostic machines.

 

[3930dave]

Instead of waiting for the dealer to tell you what your fault code is you could try an android app called torque. The app is $5 and an it connects via Bluetooth to a dongle you can buy at Amazon for $20.
It gives you all the fault codes and lots more info on your car like the expensive diagnostic machines.

Last Fall, a friend of mine showed me something similar that he uses. Good value for the money, and can read many fault codes. What I was talking about (VCM elimination) likely needs a dealer level tool, or at least a high end pro scanner - you are basically changing operating parameters in the engine 'puter - either that or you need a hardware solution - if you know what sensors the engine computer reads to activate the VCM, you may be able to fool it into thinking conditions are never right for operation.

Remember when we just drove cars and only played games on computers ? Unfortunately, combining the two leads to discussions like this !

Rgds, D.

 

[CowboyRon]

Last Fall, a friend of mine showed me something similar that he uses. Good value for the money, and can read many fault codes. What I was talking about (VCM elimination) likely needs a dealer level tool, or at least a high end pro scanner - you are basically changing operating parameters in the engine 'puter - either that or you need a hardware solution - if you know what sensors the engine computer reads to activate the VCM, you may be able to fool it into thinking conditions are never right for operation.

Remember when we just drove cars and only played games on computers ? Unfortunately, combining the two leads to discussions like this !

Rgds, D.

You're probably right, the dealer diagnostics are much more accurate than anything you or I could own.
I must be older than you, when I started driving computers were good for nothing.

 

[3930dave]

This is one of the many reasons I will not own a truck or car with cylinder deactivation. Too many side effect issues.

Chris

Agreed ! I tend to side with what Thoreau said about keeping things simple ! :drink:

I'm still curious about Chrysler's MDS - either I'm not talking with the right people (with problems), or they've pulled this off w/o the heavy oil consumption. :scratchchin:

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

You're probably right, the dealer diagnostics are much more accurate than anything you or I could own.
I must be older than you, when I started driving computers were good for nothing.

Obscene dealer charges for basic scans is part of what has driven the market for these low cost consumer code readers. That Android app is pretty impressive, and will tell most people more info than they want to know - worth having just to tell you what your Trans temp is, IMO.

The high powered Master of the Universe tools that can seriously change how an engine computer is programmed - well, most consumers probably shouldn't be playing with that kind of magic.

You and I are probably from the same era..... I'm old enough that in my first Programming course I was coding using punchcards !

Rgds, D.

 

[Peacock]

The '08-12 Accord VCM is slightly problematic. The plugs tend to foul on cylinders 1-4. Some cars do it, some never do. The PCM update usually fixes it for good. We have a couple of customers that claim oil consumption, but when we do the change with the Honda spec oil we haven't seen any appreciable usage over 3,750 miles.

The other VCM engines that Honda builds have no problems. Our '07 Odyssey has 88k on it and uses no oil and has no issues with plugs.

As a Honda tech I wouldn't be remotely afraid of any Honda VCM engine.

 

[CowboyRon]

Obscene dealer charges for basic scans is part of what has driven the market for these low cost consumer code readers. That Android app is pretty impressive, and will tell most people more info than they want to know - worth having just to tell you what your Trans temp is, IMO.

The high powered Master of the Universe tools that can seriously change how an engine computer is programmed - well, most consumers probably shouldn't be playing with that kind of magic.

You and I are probably from the same era..... I'm old enough that in my first Programming course I was coding using punchcards !

Rgds, D.

Ok you win, we had Apple 1 in high school, minus the punch cards.
As far as the app goes, I was very impressed on the info it gave me.
It shows horsepower, throttle position, timing, and much more.
It's much better than the toy they bring out to your car at AutoZone. They just give you a list of problems that might be wrong with your car.

 

[3930dave]

The '08-12 Accord VCM is slightly problematic. The plugs tend to foul on cylinders 1-4. Some cars do it, some never do. The PCM update usually fixes it for good. We have a couple of customers that claim oil consumption, but when we do the change with the Honda spec oil we haven't seen any appreciable usage over 3,750 miles.

The other VCM engines that Honda builds have no problems. Our '07 Odyssey has 88k on it and uses no oil and has no issues with plugs.

As a Honda tech I wouldn't be remotely afraid of any Honda VCM engine.

It sounds like Chris (Accord owner) had been getting at least some oil changes done at his dealer - hard to say what they were actually using for oil. Yep, oil specs can make a difference.... I know the older Honda PS fluid is a pretty unique brew.

These variable displacement (so to speak) engines are complex enough that I can see that (production) on-the-fly parts changes are one reason that people can get mixed results out of the same model of motor. To be clear, I'm not anti-Honda - I have a lot of respect for Honda engine technology, and their production QC.

Back to the other Chris's point..... many manufacturers have struggled with field issues in variable displacement engines - that a premier engine manufacturer like Honda is not immune well summarizes that this is not a trivial challenge.

Rgds, D.

 

[crazyal]

I've got the Torque app for my phone and it works well for engine codes but now the engine computer is tied into the brake/ stability control/ airbag/ transmission/ climate control/ and others. If any computer has an issue the check engine light will come on and it requires a much more advance scan tool to read them.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Agreed ! I tend to side with what Thoreau said about keeping things simple ! :drink:

I'm still curious about Chrysler's MDS - either I'm not talking with the right people (with problems), or they've pulled this off w/o the heavy oil consumption. :scratchchin:

Rgds, D.

Chrysler seems to have done a good job.

Chris

 

[3930dave]

Chrysler seems to have done a good job.

Chris

I'm not really a Chrysler fan, that's mostly my inner geek wondering " Can it be done (reliably, with no abnormal oil consumption) ? ". Kudos to Chrysler.

Rgds, D.

 

[CHDinCT]

Came accross this link to a class action lawsuit. I don't know how legit this is since we never got a notice of the suit. I'm not abig fan of joining class action suits since, usually, the only ones to make out are the lawyers. Honda Accord Oil Defect Class Action Lawsuit

What worries me is the comments -didn't read them all, but a lot of people with higher mileage accord V6's are using a lot more oil than we are. I'm thinking the oil consumption is going to get noticeable worse over time, so perhaps it's best just to trade out of it now. Personally, I would not be afraid to buy another Honda as long as it's not a V6 with the VCM feature, which I think all of them except maybe the Ridgeline come with standard. My wife, however, will not drive or buy another Honda. We had a few problems with our 2003 Pilot, though nothing like this. Still, the Pilot being our first Honda, we finished that ownership experience with the thought, "Don't really get what all this Honda devotion is about."

We had two Subaru's that gave us flawless ownership experiences and four Toyota's with good experiences. The only Toyota issue was the frame rust on my '99 Taco, which Toyota bought back after 12 years at 150% of retail blue book value, so I can't complain about that.