Applying for jobs and scheduling interviews????

[MossRoad]

Go back and count the number of times you've mentioned "them" making "you" waste "your" time in this thread....

 

[rox]

Yeah! A couple months after the RIF, she plans a Holiday Party. We were just out of money and had to let a couple dozen people go, but we have enough for a party for 300 people??? :confused2:

I have to give my husband credit. When he was a chef working for private country clubs he never drove a fancy car, he said if he drove a fancy car they would think they were paying him to much. Then when he owned his restaurants, again he never drove a fancy car as he did not want his employees to think exactly as you describe above. He drove a Ford Explorer for years, his biggest fancy car was Mercury Mountaineer. It would be hard to negotiate salaries with your employees when you are driving a BMW, which trust me he could have at that time. We drive a Dacia now and are happy with it. Bought it new and no electric windows, no heated seat, but we have no need for it, we fly or take a train for big trips.

 

[drssg]

Yes. I'd say about 50% of the positions in my field, in this area, are hired by any one of a few dozen recruiting agencies. They are always the ones that want you to fill out one of "their" applications in person. Usually never offer to do it via e-mail/online.

This part matches my experience. I would say that the recruiter is not doing his job if he doesn't personally interview you beforehand. For all he knows, you could have a ******** carved into your forehead, and he'd look pretty stupid sending you to one of his customers. I have typically only worked with one recruiter at a time.

And they always seem to have very limited knowledge of the position they are actually hiring for. All they know is "yes" the offer benefits (but no details at all), and they know what the pay is starting out (usually significantly reduced), but no idea what pay will jump to once in the door and off probation.

This part does NOT match my experience. If everyone is doing it, then it could be an industry thing, but it sounds suspicious to me. That would tell me that the pay probably isn't very good, the company isn't very good, and their only hope of finding employees is to get people that are desperate enough that they don't care.

On a separate note, I suggest avoiding the line about not wasting time interviewing with a company. I know what you mean, and it makes perfect sense, but I think it has a negative connotation. Maybe something more like, "I would like to do as much due diligence as possible ahead of the interview to ensure I'm a good fit."

I have also always been told that it's bad etiquette to be the first to bring up salary. If the recruiter can't sift through that on your behalf, then I think you just have to accept wasting some time or offending some potential employers. Good luck!

 

[MossRoad]

I have to give my husband credit. When he was a chef working for private country clubs he never drove a fancy car, he said if he drove a fancy car they would think they were paying him to much. Then when he owned his restaurants, again he never drove a fancy car as he did not want his employees to think exactly as you describe above. He drove a Ford Explorer for years, his biggest fancy car was Mercury Mountaineer. It would be hard to negotiate salaries with your employees when you are driving a BMW, which trust me he could have at that time. We drive a Dacia now and are happy with it. Bought it new and no electric windows, no heated seat, but we have no need for it, we fly or take a train for big trips.

Hahahahaa, here we go again on the similarities in our lives... the good boss we had drove a 10 year old Ford and parked in the Employee lot and walked a block to work every day just like the rest of us. The witch that replaced him drove a BMW, made our transportation department (10 trucks and about 20 cars) move to the Employee lot and turned their lot into the "Executive Parking Lot" so she and her hired cronies could park across the street. And she reduced the number of handicap spots from 4 to 1!!! We had 4 old ladies with canes and she kicked them out! Ebeneezer had nothing on this piece of work. :laughing:

 

[aczlan]

On a separate note, I suggest avoiding the line about not wasting time interviewing with a company. I know what you mean, and it makes perfect sense, but I think it has a negative connotation. Maybe something more like, "I would like to do as much due diligence as possible ahead of the interview to ensure I'm a good fit."

I agree (although, I might try to work in something about taking up their time for a job that wont work with your schedule to make it clear that you are thinking of them as well).

Aaron Z

 

[LD1]

This part matches my experience. I would say that the recruiter is not doing his job if he doesn't personally interview you beforehand. For all he knows, you could have a ******** carved into your forehead, and he'd look pretty stupid sending you to one of his customers. I have typically only worked with one recruiter at a time.

I have no problem interviewing with a recruiter prior to being set to he company. But why would I even want to go that far if the job is not a fit for me/family? It would be a waste of everyones time, which is what I am trying to avoid. So when reading that job description from this recruiting agency, and they have a paragraph talking up the company they are hiring for......Then a list of qualifications/skills required......with no mention of pay, shift/schedule, benefits, retirement, etc.....then no I am not ready for an in-person interview yet. What I am ready for is a phone call one way or another to get the information I need to decide if the job is gonna be a good fit. IF it is, I have no issues. IF it isnt a good fit, I wont want to waste everyones time including my own.

On a separate note, I suggest avoiding the line about not wasting time interviewing with a company. I know what you mean, and it makes perfect sense, but I think it has a negative connotation. Maybe something more like, "I would like to do as much due diligence as possible ahead of the interview to ensure I'm a good fit."

Perhaps? Maybe it could be worded more in a more eliquate manner to get the same point across. And maybe I'll try try some of those suggesting wordings next time around. But my method has worked well for me for the past 10 years. Like I said, most of the calls I get from HR wanting to schedule and interview right away.....they are thankful that I am asking the questions and not wanting to waste their time if the job is not a fit. ITs just once in a blue moon (and the reason I started this thread), that I get a call and they take offence to me asking such simple, yet very important to me/family, questions. Its almost as if they have this attitude that they are trying to do ME a favor my offering me an interview, and that I should be grateful that they are even calling me.

I am not one to use fancy vocabulary to try to sound smart, or try to be politically correct. I like to have open and honest conversations. So when I get that phone call, I have questions that need answered before I agree to come in for an interview. And the honest reason for those questions is because it would be a big waste of everyones time if the job just aint gonna be a fit for me and my family. It dont bother me at all if the company/HR/person on the other end of the line dont like that. IF they cannot handle that simple honesty.....I dont want to work for them anyway.

I have also always been told that it's bad etiquette to be the first to bring up salary. If the recruiter can't sift through that on your behalf, then I think you just have to accept wasting some time or offending some potential employers. Good luck!

Salary, schedule, retirement, and benefits are the 4 key things that matter to me. And probably in that order too. Sure there are other, smaller things, that matter as well. Like working for a quality company, layoff history, how they treat people, location, etc. But those 4 I listed are key. Benefits are last on the list, cause honestly, if I had a job that offered none.....while more expensive, my wife could carry the insurance. Same for retirement. While a nice perk, and the higher the better......certainly not a deal breaker as one can personally invest on their own. But Salary and schedule.......Those two things are absolutes that I MUST know before I will commit to spending my time and my money on going to an interview.

Maybe things are different in different fields? But in the field of work that I do, its not uncommon to see pay ranges at different companies ranging from $15-$16/hr......to well over $30. Companies in the lower $20's or under $20....usually have pretty high turnover. And with what I currently make, and skills I have, I have no interest at all in working for one of these companies. (but how am I supposed to know without asking)?

I agree (although, I might try to work in something about taking up their time for a job that wont work with your schedule to make it clear that you are thinking of them as well).

Aaron Z

I think too many people are reading what I am posting here (regarding wasting my time) and am thinking that I am using that same wording and tone on the phone when I get one of these calls.

THat couldnt be further from the truth. I treat TBN the same as if I were hanging out in the shop with a couple of buddies drinking a cold one.

The FIRST think I say to them when they ask if I'd like to come in for an interview is "Do you mind if I ask you a few questions about the position first, as I really dont want to take up any more of your valuable time than necessary if the job is not gonna be a good fit for me"? ...........or something along those lines.

The vast majority of the time I get the response "Sure, what would you like to know"......and I proceed to ask about things like shift/schedule, required OT, 401k match, pension or not, etc etc. Save the pay question for last. Which the response is always the typical "depends on experience". Which I totally understand that. They dont know me or my talents, or weather I talk a bigger game (on my resume) than I bring to the table and cannot back it up.

SO my typical reply is something to the effect "I understand that. But can you give me a potential range in which you are looking to pay to fill this position, if you were to assume I am pretty experienced and can prove I can do everything I claim on my resume". Most times I get my answer. Other times I am still met with resistance. If still met with resistance, I usually ask "What is the highest paid person you have in this field, and what is your lowest" Usually always get an answer to that one.

Again, Things are professional and polite. And it must not offend them too bad, because after I have my answers, 99% of the time they ask if I am still interested in scheduling and interview.

 

[LD1]

Go back and count the number of times you've mentioned "them" making "you" waste "your" time in this thread....

What does that have to do with anything? See my reply above^^^

What I am saying on here I treat as hanging out with some buddies.

Some of you are treating this as if I am asking the HR person on the other end of the line "I dont want you to waste my time if you cannot tell me how much the job pays". ANd that could not be further from the truth.

 

[check]

Yes that is tough. On the other hand if you are only looking at those that are currently unemployed I wonder why. Why did the "leave" the last job and why has no one else hired them. What am I not seeing as the danger sign that everyone else saw. It is tough thing hiring someone.

It sure is! But, it can get a lot worse. We had to recruit 4 new people last year and it was a multi-month process whereby we had to rate hundreds of applications, most of which came electronically, and had sometimes 100's of pages in them. Then, after paring it down to a short list of 4 candidates for each of the four positions, we had to (usually) fly them in for interviews (6 or 8 or even 10 interviews per candidate), listen to them give a talk, take them out to dinner etc. etc. etc. How would you like to do THAT every time you had to hire somebody?

 

[drssg]

I have no problem interviewing with a recruiter prior to being set to he company. But why would I even want to go that far if the job is not a fit for me/family?

IME, I haven't interviewed with a recruiter for a specific job. The interview is the start of a relationship that might last for years. When he sees a job that matches my experience and meets my pay/benefits/location requirements, then he'll give me a call. So if you can find a GOOD recruiter that will represent you in this manner, it is a huge time saver. It's the difference between regularly going through all the posts on Indeed vs. receiving an occasional phone call for a job opportunity. The only result I ever received from Indeed was a new category spam in my inbox. "Work from home and make a billion dollars a month!" That sort of thing.

I think too many people are reading what I am posting here (regarding wasting my time) and am thinking that I am using that same wording and tone on the phone when I get one of these calls.

THat couldnt be further from the truth. I treat TBN the same as if I were hanging out in the shop with a couple of buddies drinking a cold one.

The FIRST think I say to them when they ask if I'd like to come in for an interview is "Do you mind if I ask you a few questions about the position first, as I really dont want to take up any more of your valuable time than necessary if the job is not gonna be a good fit for me"? ...........or something along those lines.

Fair enough. That's exactly what I thought.

 

[ultrarunner]

A lot of my friends work in Silicon Valley... they are very good at what they do and have moved around a lot with increases in compensation.

The 4 I'm thinking of have almost been exclusively recruited... no sending out resumes and "Applying" for positions.

The Head Hunters can be very good at what they do and the ones that deliver are highly sought after on a one to one basis.

Poaching, Recruiting is the natural order of things...

Several have left very good positions at the angst of their spouses... the reason they left is fo Stock Options/Ownership positions... do they always work... no, but when they do it is very lucrative...

SRI, Genentech, Apple, etc...

All have done very well in a highly competitive environment and the employment contract based on the strength of the company making the offer is everything.

Some have been paid hundreds of thousands in severance packages... as per contract.

The skill set varies... Technical Writer, Management, Coder... etc.