Asbestos Siding

[JDGREEN4ME]

We are looking at a home with 60's vintage siding. Is it possible to put vinyl siding over this or would we need to have it removed first? I know it could be painted but that isn't what we would like to do.

 

[brin]

We are looking at a home with 60's vintage siding. Is it possible to put vinyl siding over this or would we need to have it removed first? I know it could be painted but that isn't what we would like to do.

I believe the existing regulations require you to only take remedial measures if you disturb the Asbestos siding....so just siding over it with Vinyl should be just fine...Same thing with lead paint...if you disturb it ...by sanding etc. then you open up a whole set of regs....but if you just paint over it ...with kilz and a latex paint...then no problem...Just my opinion...I have a tenant house with asbestos siding and I looked into it here once.

 

[bigtiller]

Does it look like flat slate plates with textured lines up & down and each piece is about 8 inches wide and 1/8 inch thick? If so, I doubt you can put a nail through it without it breaking. The only thing to do is remove it and take it to a haz-mat dump.

 

[/pine]

Check with your local building authorities...in FL you can cover it with vinyl siding...there are different regulations about how the furring is to be attached...removing or disturbing it is whole other can of worms...i.e., requires special permits and must be done by licensed professionals...there is also the issue of disposal fees etc...

FWIW...for repairing damaged tiles they make non-asbestos tiles that match most textures of the old asbestos tiles...

 

[brin]

Does it look like flat slate plates with textured lines up & down and each piece is about 8 inches wide and 1/8 inch thick? If so, I doubt you can put a nail through it without it breaking. The only thing to do is remove it and take it to a haz-mat dump.

Makes sense...I have never tried nailing though one of the slate plates that look like what you described...but I know this...JD better check with his county on proper Asbestos removal and with the EPA...there are huge penalties and fines for doing it wrong....You also need protective clothing and suits and I don't even think an individual is allowed to remove the Asbestos...it takes a certified crew...very expensive....Be careful JD...Asbestos is dangerous when it becomes dust and if you start pulling the tiles off the house you will have lots of dust and it can kill you....

 

[amaxwell]

Does it look like flat slate plates with textured lines up & down and each piece is about 8 inches wide and 1/8 inch thick? If so, I doubt you can put a nail through it without it breaking. The only thing to do is remove it and take it to a haz-mat dump.

It is amazing what we go thru to dispose of this now , which is a good thing , but in the 50's when my parents house was built they cut the shingles with a skill saw with dust flying everywhere, no mask or anything. I remember as a kid gathering the scrap by the arm load (bare arms) to throw away. Back then no one knew it was dangerous ,I guess I'm lucky to have survived it and lived this long .

 

[orezok]

In most places you can "encapsulate" the asbestos and not have to remove it. This can include just painting it which bonds the asbestos and eliminates dusting.

 

[jimpen]

A friend's house had all sort of cracked and broken tiles on one wall. I helped someone strip the one wall and then replace the broken ones on the other wall. To cut them we used a cement blade and water running on it. That was back in the 80's in rural Texas. No one gave a crap back then.

Taking them off they will have one-three nails holding them on. Taking them off should be fairly straight-forward. Just wear good small micron dust masks, good solid gloves, and eye protection wouldn't hurt. If anyone says anything as you take them off just claim ignorance. Getting rid of them will be a different issue. But you can't just put siding on top of it. The nail holes would have to be drilled using a cement bit beforehand.

 

[MossRoad]

Makes sense...I have never tried nailing though one of the slate plates that look like what you described...but I know this...JD better check with his county on proper Asbestos removal and with the EPA...there are huge penalties and fines for doing it wrong....You also need protective clothing and suits and I don't even think an individual is allowed to remove the Asbestos...it takes a certified crew...very expensive....Be careful JD...Asbestos is dangerous when it becomes dust and if you start pulling the tiles off the house you will have lots of dust and it can kill you....

Here's a link to Indiana's regs on asbestos.
IDEM: Asbestos

Here's a tidbit from the link:
All facilities (except residential buildings that have four (4) or fewer dwelling units) must be inspected by an Indiana licensed asbestos inspector prior to the commencement of demolition or renovation activities. Even if no asbestos is present in the facility, proper notification of demolition or renovation activity requirements must still be followed. Homeowners are exempt from notification and removal requirements but not all disposal requirements. Those working to remove asbestos must be licensed to work in Indiana.

So, private homeowners are not required to get inspections for demo or reno work, and are exempt from removal requirements.... but not all disposal requirements. If you get paid for the work, you have to be licensed.

I find asbestos particulary interesting, as I was born in a house made of Cemesto panels( Cemesto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ), that my dad built. He was an architect and Cemesto was an interesting way to build low-cost housing. We lived in an ongoing Frank Lloyd Wright inspired ongoing architectual experiment and construction lab! These images are very similar to what the inside and outside of our house looked like. https://www.google.com/search?q=Ray...C0yAS_hoDABg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=773

Anyhow, we had stacks of Cemesto panels that were left over from the construction and played with them as kids. Unfortunately, we cut them up with hand and circular saws, making forts, structures, etc... and God only knows how much dust we breathed in as kids.... so if I croak from lung cancer, my guess is the Cemesto panels.

 

[Rustyiron]

Other than a "dated" look, the old asbestos siding is good stuff. Paints well and is very durable. IMHO it is no better of worse than the new fiber cement fad that were into now, in fact I believe its less prone to water damage than f/c. Vinyl can be installed directly over the asbestos but you might want to take this opportunity to insulate with some ridged foam at this point. 60 years ago insulation was not high on the priority list. If the existing siding is "shadowed" by installing it on a lath strip (for a bigger shadow), you should at least install the 1/4" fan fold insulation to sort of hold the asbestos in place as it will crack (when shadowed) with the new nails from the vinyl, and pieces will fall down, not far but enough to show a bulge in the vinyl. I understand that this type of asbestos is NOT the pipe insulation that all the lawyers are chasing down victims of and it was taken by the landfill 'bout 10 years ago without any problems. This may have changed by now.
Depending on your wall insulation, think about 3/4 or an inch of foam (not the coffee cup stuff) if you can without creating trim or water problems.

 

[2458n]

Okay thread highjack.Where do you get replacement panels.? Rental property with no bad panels for fifty years now needs 20 or more replacements.Thanks for any help.

 

[JDGREEN4ME]

Does it look like flat slate plates with textured lines up & down and each piece is about 8 inches wide and 1/8 inch thick? If so, I doubt you can put a nail through it without it breaking. The only thing to do is remove it and take it to a haz-mat dump.

Yes, that is exactly what they look like...

 

[Piston]

For you guys that say you can install siding over the asbestos siding, I'd like to know how you do that? My home has this same siding, and if you think you can drive a nail through it without it all cracking and falling off in many pieces, you haven't tried nailing into it yet

I will be removing my siding and disposing of it. I can't stand the stuff. I'm probably going to replace it with fiber cement siding, mostly because I think nothing ruins the look of a house like vinyl siding. It just looks so cheap.

 

[ultrarunner]

Okay thread highjack.Where do you get replacement panels.? Rental property with no bad panels for fifty years now needs 20 or more replacements.Thanks for any help.

I went to an old time roofing material supplier when I needed a couple of boxes.

It no longer has asbestos and the pattern varied a little... once it was up and painted it all blended in.

He said back in the day he would sell a boxcar load a week to customers in San Francisco because it was the best material for the salt air...

Fiber Cement Siding - GAF WeatherSide

Fiber Cement & Vinyl Siding : Efficient Windows & Doors of Indiana : Lafayette, Indianapolis, Carmel, Logansport

 

[jaotguy]

it doesn't cause lung cancer ... it just scars up the lung tissue , making it impossible to breathe after long exposure to it ......

so wear a good mask ....

drilling holes in tiles .... use a cement bit , an old plastic coffee can with lid and and a piece of water pipe foam insulation... make a large hole on one side of the foam and a small one on the opposite side ... put the smaller hole over the bit, and have the larger one away from the drill. cut a hole in the coffee can lid big enough to slip the foam tube through , and attach the can base ...

put down plastic on the ground below to catch the "loose dust" ...

mark hole positions ... put bit tip to hole position and push foam up against the wall to stop air born dust ... dill away ... most of the dust should fall down the "tube " and collect in the can...

clean up .... lift the plastic and collect "loose dust" , pour any collected dust into a pail of old paint or mix in with cement and make pavers

 

[KennyG]

I know they keep changing the regulations, but last time I checked asbestos only had to be treated as hazardous if it was "friable". Friable means it can be reduced to powder by the hand pressure. This makes it potentially airborne. If it's non-friable (which includes most siding, shingles and floor tile) it can be sent to a normal landfill. Of course, if you grind it or smash it, it becomes friable.

For a data point, a few years ago I redid a condominium that had asbestos floor tiles. I was able to dispose of those like any other construction debris and this was in Chicago which has some of the most restrictive codes in the world.

 

[tallyho8]

I bought an old termite eaten house next to mine that had asbestos siding and had it torn down. There were no special regulations for demolishing single family dwellings and the material went to the local landfill with no problems.

Back in 1965 when Hurricane Betsy hit New Orleans, practically every house had asbestos roofing except the older ones that had slate roofs. 99% of them were replaced with modern asphalt roofing. There were many unpaved streets and driveways at that time and many people used the old asbestos slates to fill pot holes in their driveways. On dry days, cars passing down these drives would stir up clouds of asbestos containing dust that probably caused many cases of mesothelioma in our area.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

I know they keep changing the regulations, but last time I checked asbestos only had to be treated as hazardous if it was "friable". Friable means it can be reduced to powder by the hand pressure. This makes it potentially airborne. If it's non-friable (which includes most siding, shingles and floor tile) it can be sent to a normal landfill. Of course, if you grind it or smash it, it becomes friable.

For a data point, a few years ago I redid a condominium that had asbestos floor tiles. I was able to dispose of those like any other construction debris and this was in Chicago which has some of the most restrictive codes in the world.

True. At one time, when I worked for the Health Department, enforcement of asbestos regulations was my responsibility. At that time, asbestos siding was not a big concern; folks who demolished or renovated buildings, including schools, were more of a problem. Old refineries were loaded with asbestos, and someone was always repairing, demolishing or renovating them. Some were so old and in disrepair, that birds were building nests out of the deteriorated insulating.

Asbestos siding is not considered "friable", as stated above, unless you do something that produces dust. I would suggest checking with you local county or state environmental agency concerning handling and disposal; they usually do the enforcement any way. I would never go to EPA first. MOST of the time, they just refer you to your local agency.

 

[bigtiller]

I know they keep changing the regulations, but last time I checked asbestos only had to be treated as hazardous if it was "friable". Friable means it can be reduced to powder by the hand pressure. This makes it potentially airborne. If it's non-friable (which includes most siding, shingles and floor tile) it can be sent to a normal landfill. Of course, if you grind it or smash it, it becomes friable.

For a data point, a few years ago I redid a condominium that had asbestos floor tiles. I was able to dispose of those like any other construction debris and this was in Chicago which has some of the most restrictive codes in the world.

That makes sense. I got my info in post #3 from my sisters contractor years ago. I wonder if he found a way to pad the bill? She found some old used ones and just replaced the broken siding pieces.

 

[2458n]

Thank you for the weatherside site. My siding covers a shed and a two story farm house. Insurance chalked it up to rough living and of course no coverage.