B3200 Vibration Update

[TMR]

Oh does Doosan build the Kioti's as well? I know they are built on the same assmbly plant in S Korea and you can tell to look at the models they are the same.

From speaking with both Kioti and BobCat dealers...the two tractor lines are nearly identical...almost all parts are interchangeable. Perhaps in the future BobCat may try to differentiate its' CUTs from the Kioti CUTs? Price points are pretty close also.

FWIW Tom R

P.S. Attachments are from different sources...not sure if that included FELs or not? TMR

 

[Travelover]

I worked in the noise and vibration field for a US auto company for 26 years and worked on a wide variety of gas and diesel vibration issues. I'd just like to say that with a little instrumentation, any vibration problem can be diagnosed as to cause and possible resolution actions. One may decide that the cost to fix it is prohibitive, but I'd hope that an analysis has been done and would be shared with dealers and customers.

 

[Toolguy]

I think a little clairity in diesel engine operation would help here. As to why this engine now has vibration issues that it previously had to a much lesser degree is most likely the injector timing change which was mandated by new emission requirements. To get to the new emmision standards the injector timing was adjusted to get a more complete burn. This resulted in a rougher running engine. It is possible that this engine design and development has reached the tipping point where it can no longer meet emission standards and still be usable as a tractor motor where excess vibration is an issue.

HowStuffWorks "Diesel Engines vs. Gasoline Engines"

 

[leonz]

shake rattle kubota saga continues

If all the motors have the same factory settings? How does this relate to some owners who have not experienced the vibration issue, same machine no vibration?

If it rattles the fuel settings are off and or the machine needs a harmonic balancer period

AGAIN these machines would destroy themselves if they were not internaly balanced with or with out a screwed up fuel setting!




One Kubota Rep in CA is in denial, although He was kind enough to explain that the operator is sitting over a transmission and near an "un-balanced engine".

UH HUH sure! you could not run an unbalanced engine in any configuration and stay in the seat.




In his own words ,"It is not a BMW" It would appear to be somewhat of a random phenomena.

If they do not test bench these engines prior to installs there is no excuse
as they would know what it is doing exactly;


As I mentioned before the engines are run briefly with oil and fuel at the
standard settings prior to shipment as they are not allowed to ship them with fuel or oil in the crankcase.


If the engines were set per the kubota generator fuel settings you could install a PTX exhaust gas purifier and never have to worry about vibration issues.

Where is the matching mark on the injection pump?, is it directly in line with the mark on the crankcase mount?

If it is, you know the fuel setting are the issue and can be correctly set to stop all the problems with the engines "supposed" out of balance issues.

"without using wieght bolted to the machine to attempt to cancel the out of
bad harmonics.

I had the same issue with a GM product that would regularly tear out the serpentine belt and tensioner pulley and finally tore a hole in the hood, ripped out the radiator and then tore out the alternator.

AND the amount of electrical interference and knocking was huge, and I could not use the radio.



I sure feel for the folks with unresolved vibration problems.

Were his eyes starting to water when he said this was an unbalanced engine and you were sitting over a transmission that operates at high speeds of rotation to deliver fluid power as he was looking down to the ground?

If the transmission was not blanced and the turbine was not balanced >>>>>>>>>>>>........................ you would be in big trouble

De Nile is a river in Egpyt, They sell thousands of these engines in other uses so his statement is nothing to consider as credible.


Or as Click and Clack would say;

BOOOOOOOOOOGGGGGGGUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Any indirect injection diesel engine is easier to manage as the amount of fuel is regulated by the injection pumps volume of fuel delivery which is pumped and bypasssed back to tank; saying that if there is no fuel line back to tank

(WHICH THERE SHOULD BE)

from the last fuel injection nozzle back to tank then they readjusted the fuel delivery to almost a trickle and that is where the problem is.

I wish I had opened the hood on the B7800 machine I looked at years ago and I would have spotted this right off.

If there is no heated fuel returning to tank to help heat the fuel in the tank this also adds to the problem.

 

[leonz]

I worked in the noise and vibration field for a US auto company for 26 years and worked on a wide variety of gas and diesel vibration issues. I'd just like to say that with a little instrumentation, any vibration problem can be diagnosed as to cause and possible resolution actions. One may decide that the cost to fix it is prohibitive, but I'd hope that an analysis has been done and would be shared with dealers and customers.

Yes, yes, yes, :thumbsup:

Normal fuel delivery settings, proper fuel return line to tank, and a small catalytic converter sized to the engine = happy campers.

 

[jeepfreak1972]

I wish I had done more research on the B3200. I have had mine a month and it vibrates like crazy. My last tractor was a Deere 2520 and that was smooth. I like my Bota better than the Deere for many reasons but my hands go numb if I run the rpm's up over 2,000. Even at idle stuff is buzzing and rattling on this machine. I'm bummed out. This was going to be the last one for me. A keep her till I'm old tractor. Originally I was going to get a 2920 Kubota but I got bit by the bigger is better bug. I can't go smaller now. I'm already spoiled. And I don't want another Deere.

 

[kuboman]

I wish I had done more research on the B3200. I have had mine a month and it vibrates like crazy. My last tractor was a Deere 2520 and that was smooth. I like my Bota better than the Deere for many reasons but my hands go numb if I run the rpm's up over 2,000. Even at idle stuff is buzzing and rattling on this machine. I'm bummed out. This was going to be the last one for me. A keep her till I'm old tractor. Originally I was going to get a 2920 Kubota but I got bit by the bigger is better bug. I can't go smaller now. I'm already spoiled. And I don't want another Deere.

I understand your annoyance but there are a few things you can do. I think this has all been said before but go after every nut and bolt with a wrench and then make a study of the various things that vibrate and make noise. Isolate all those items, in other words stop them from vibrating. Allot of it is noise but also as every little thing that vibrates just adds to the total vibration package. I did all that with mine and it made a huge difference. Even stopping the noise helps.

 

[ruralruss]

I wish I had done more research on the B3200. I have had mine a month and it vibrates like crazy. My last tractor was a Deere 2520 and that was smooth. I like my Bota better than the Deere for many reasons but my hands go numb if I run the rpm's up over 2,000. Even at idle stuff is buzzing and rattling on this machine. I'm bummed out. This was going to be the last one for me. A keep her till I'm old tractor. Originally I was going to get a 2920 Kubota but I got bit by the bigger is better bug. I can't go smaller now. I'm already spoiled. And I don't want another Deere.

Here are a few things that can help

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...914-vibration-tips-other-assorted-things.html

 

[art]

We have been called enough on this and have had several chances to look at his issue and knowing what was done for this tractor that was or is the brail of the vibration issue.

Not all Kubota''s have an issue with pump timing! It is different timing with the engines mentioned the 7800 and 3200. We have not found this to be an issue yet! Excessive smoke is the first problem to the timing!!!

The rubber under the deck, while on many of the deluxe tractors it's standard equipment. Otherwise it's an option of the owner to install. This is not a warrantee item and on some it helps and on some it doesn't make a difference.

The info here on the timing spec's is not accurate that has been being given!!!!!

What we have found with the tractors we have had in. Some do seem to have more vibration compared to others. Strange part of this is we just had those tractors in for servicing. No complaints of vibration! One of them stating he had a vibration, was the smoothest by far!

It is different for everone as to what they feel and what might really be a problem!

About calling the reps, dealers first lines are the company rep, when we can't get to them because they are working directly with customers it ties up the system. The rep can't do anything until he has been called by a dealer!

It often takes far more time and effort to explain things to people who don't know the complete story, tractors inside and out it actually slows down everyone else as well as takes up time he could be solving more indepth problems. We had people who do have the service manuals in and asking for assistance with setting the pump timing and they don't have the ability to observe where it is on the engine.

I don't mean to slight anyone but your dealer is there to take care of the problems. Sometimes we actually have tractors that the owners which they had a vibration in so at least it might run and they could get there work done!!!!!

We use the service reps to get us up the chain further when needed. When the system starts faultering it holds back everyone. When the company service rep does take the time to address the individual situation then it is normally because the dealer thought enough to help help you!

I have a feeling this might get ugly, and I didn't do this to offend anyone here as there is every level of mechanical ability on this board.

 

[funwithahoe]

I can only post my own experience - My B3200 (25 hours) does start to vibrate some around 2K but really isn't too bad. It does seem that there are multiple "sweet" spots where the vibration is not as bad if you change the RPM's up or down a hundred or so. Quite frankly, I am not sure I would think anything of it unless I read so much about it on here. I usually just adjust the engine RPM. Even a 540 PTO mower still cuts great as low as 2K RPM's and I can't imagine it hurts anything to run it there.

Overall, I am really happy with the B3200 and having come down from an "L" I am constantly amazed at what this little guy will do. I used to get wired up that I could do it faster with a bigger machine but now I look at the whole thing as recreation and relax- If your not a full time farmer aren't we all just doing it for recreation?

It does sound like the issue is very tractor specific but I have to feel badly for Kubota because although i am sure some people have very real problems these forums probably get a lot of people fired up a running into the dealer to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

Nicest part of the B3200 is I can't hear my wife when i am on it!:laughing: