b7800 locker problems

[whistlepig]

I'm not saying the 7800 is a bad tractor. Mine obviously has some issues I need to figure out though and based on my experience with it and now comparing it with others I wouldnt make it my first choice again. I'm not happy to say that but it is what it is. So far just looking at it I can see the linkage is not on par with the other b series I've put my eyeballs on. I WILL upgrade this linkage once the warranty is out. The problem i see with it is for starters where the linkage goes through the figure c420 in the picture. if you look under the seat you'll see this is just a notch in the metal with a bent chunk of metal "pinching" the linkage in there. It looks like it will pinch in tighter the harder you have to push it. The foot lever section is long with no real gussets or mounts to support it before that pinched spot. The final lever near number 110 is short and offers little leverage. I think I can improve on this linkage set up for starters. My locker has never worked or felt like the aforementioned b2150, nor does it feel like any of the other b tractors I checked out today and I think this linkage is at least part of the problem. I think theres more to it but i really do think this can be improved for starters.

With crbr's posting of the schematic and your very excellent description of the problem I now have something to look at on my tractor. This is a very good post. A lot of wisdom in very few words. I learned something today.

 

[captin_insano]

The linkage I think has been a big portion of my problems. Push yours by hand once and see how hard it is to actually make it go all the way down. now next time your near a kubota dealer stop and press down a locker on a b3030 or any other b series they have there and let us know what ya think. Mine takes alot to make it go all the way down and since its placed in a manor that makes it difficult to always apply the needed pressure on it I've probably not had it not fully engaged at times. Mine doesnt give you that positive engagement feel the old b2150 did and like the other b series likely do. I dont know for certain though if mine is or is not any harder to press than any other 7800.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Actually the diff lock pedal on my B3200 is pretty dang hard to push all the way down as well. I have to keep all of my weight on it with that foot to really engage it as far as it will go. I might look at increasing the leverage ratio on the little arm that goes into the trans as you mentioned.

 

[wowwee]

I don't like the way my B2320 engages either, takes a lot of effort.

Dale

 

[captin_insano]

You guys should try mine! I would give a shiny nickel or 2 even to have what you guys have! I'm going to get a scale of some type and measure how much pressure it takes to engage it. Obviously, when you do push the pedal if the locker components arnt lined up it may not engage so in that case dont force it or you may bend something. All the new ones I looked at on the dealers lot were smooth like butter compared to mine. The one obvious difference between them and mine is the linkage, I dont know if theres any difference on the internals.

 

[captin_insano]

Actually the diff lock pedal on my B3200 is pretty dang hard to push all the way down as well. I have to keep all of my weight on it with that foot to really engage it as far as it will go. I might look at increasing the leverage ratio on the little arm that goes into the trans as you mentioned.

We'll I talked to kubota about this linkage stuff. talked to jeremy in service at the california number listed with their warranty info. He was very helpful and got back to me right away. He checked with engineering who said the early b3200's had the same... or maybe he said similiar linkage as mine. The brandy new ones on the lot were the ones i was looking at and they are really slick. Felt like the old unbreakable 2150. He did say the new linkage will work on the early 3200's and the b7800. If you have a machine under warranty i wouldnt mess with modifying the linkage myself. I would consider upgrading to this new linkage though if it doesnt affect your warranty and you do use your locker often. I'm pretty sure the "crappy" linkage was the majority of my problems and once its gone I can expect real kubota reliability. I'm starting to feel so much better about this machine now that were getting somewhere. I wish i would of looked into it better the first time around.

 

[captin_insano]

Well kubota has left me down. Bob from pristows called today and said kubota wont cover it under warranty. On top of that the cost of the diagnosis to tell me what I already know is $460. I already know the locker is bad, I'm not paying it. I called kubota again, asked to speak with a warranty manager. They put joe on the phone and Joe said he doesnt talk to customers. He transfered me to customer satisfaction. I spoke to steve there again and I bet he is getting tired of hearing from me becuase its getting hard to contain my frustrations. I hope none of you folks have to ever go through this. They tried again telling me my machine was out of warranty and again I had to recite what the warranty says. 3 year powertrain and it says "rear axle and EVERYTHING contained within". I'm giving them until tomorrow to have it fixed or tell me it will be fixed or I'm letting them keep it and I'll have the state attorney generals office deal with it.

I know every manufacturer can let a lemon slip out to the consumer. I understand that but I thought that Kubota at least would be one of the companies to back up their products.

 

[captin_insano]

And again, I feel like I'm being treated like I'm a complete idiot. I may not be the brighest man but come on. I asked what they determined to be the cause and was told "thats kinda grey" "no way to really tell" asked what type of testing was done to determine if anything was defective and was told "we took digital pictures and put it back together" "Everything LOOKED ok but the locker for some reason is deteriorating". Was told "they said they fixed it once and they wernt going to do it again". ugggh! Sorry to vent this but I really hope none of you get stuck in my situation.

 

[captin_insano]

That was the dealer telling me this stuff above (telling me also what kubota said). So I called kubota again and spoke with becky in warranty. She looked and said pristows never filed a warranty claim for my tractor. I asked if they would need to in order to determine if it would be covered and she said yes. I asked if they could refuse a warranty repair without filing a claim and she said the company policy is to file a claim and they will determine. Now i know Pristows talked to Joe in warranty at kubota so I am really being d@#k'd around. The question I have is pristows just saying no or did Joe just say dont bother filing a claim, we did it once and were not doing it again? Either way i wont let this slide.

 

[captin_insano]

Again talked to Bob at pristows who I think is really trying to help. I get the feeling its kubota's warranty department causing the grief. kubota says its up to Bob to decide, not up to them. What I didnt mention up to this point, or to kubota is my Dad was the service manager at the same dealership before Bob and I REALLY doubt they would put me out like that. Bob said if its up to him it would be fixed and I believe that 100%. Bob said he asked for preapproval before filing a claim and Joe at Kubota told him "no, we fixed it once and once we fix them they never break again". Thanks Joe, you figured all that out from pictures I guess? Joe probably never even looked at the pictures because what the heck are they going to tell you anyway. Just because it broke twice in 200 hours you decide I'm the problem? Nevermind 17 years and all those hours on kubotas B series tractors (not to mention other equipment, loaders, excavators, etc) and all of a sudden I buy a new machine and forget how to use it? Pictures are all it takes to really decide whats wrong with it. freakin pictures! No rockwell hardness, no specs on the linkage and degree of engagement?

 

[General Lee]

Well, I hope things work out in the end. One thing you can do Is send the link to this thread to Kubota and let them know the word is getting out to current customers and potential customers of Kubotas poor customer service. They continue with this crap they will see their sales slip like Toyota.

This thread won't make or break them, but its negativity towards them and when enough negativity gets out then it hurts them. Kinda like car dealers, if they a 5 star rating or whatever is, the right complaint to corporate (and it just takes one) strips them of that rating. Not good for managers

 

[captin_insano]

I'm putting this stuff on here now in hopes it may in some small way help prevent others from going through it. Or at least let them know what to expect, what helps get answers, etc. So far I think pristows has been doing what they can do, I have nothing bad to say about them but Kubota needs to step up. I didnt buy a warranty that said "one time only" and I'm not dumb enough to think they can decide a cause from a picture. So my kubota is sitting at pristows until this is resolved. I really wish it didnt come to this because I know most of the kubota stuff is top notch and I really dont want to run another tractor. I was a big fan of kubota and this hurts. Pretty shatty feeling being plowed under by the machine you love.

 

[captin_insano]

And I just want to add that IF the whole reason they dont want to fix it is simply because they fixed it once before, they could of said that up front. They did say first to my dealer they wouldnt cover it because it was out of warranty and they "rarely cover lockers anyway". Also said to the dealer " I cant believe it was covered the first time" When the dealer told me this I called kubota to explain to them that their powertrain warranty is 3 years (like they didnt know) they said "the dealer shouldnt of told you that its rarely covered" "We will make a decision based on the specific case and since it IS under warranty you need to take it back to the dealer". They simply set me up for a 460 dollar diagnosis that I was already well aware of. Why didnt they just say straight up to me (not to the dealer) that I was up the creek. I am so angry at kubota.

 

[Danno1]

....a scale of some type and measure how much pressure it takes to engage it...

Here's what you need:


McMaster-Carr


.

 

[captin_insano]

The dealer offered to eat the tear down bill and even offered to fix it for less than half price. Thats mighty fine of them but not an option IMO since I have a warranty that says its covered and even if its fixed it will just fail again. I at least want kubota to pay the tear down and repair, my dealer shouldnt have to eat it since kubota told me they had to do it, but had apparently already made up their mind not to repair it. What I really want is a different tractor since this one has its gremlins. So the owner of pristows is working a deal with the sales department at kubota to toss me some money towards a trade. Pristows has been good to me, the whole hold up has been on kubotas end but I'm making progress and the sales guys seem easier to deal with than warranty. The regional service rep for kubota is coiming to see it tomorrow or friday so we'll see how that goes. talking to him on the phone I got the same impression I got from kubota cali but I stood my ground.

 

[dfkrug]

Well, CAPT, I hope you prevail in you warranty dispute. It certainly seems
to be covered.

The diff lock from my B21 looks very similar internally, as does the linkage.
There was virtually no wear detectable in this unit with 2350 hours, but
there is no telling if the previous owner used DL. My JD, on the other hand,
used inferior materials for the diff lock, and it had lots of wear.

 

[captin_insano]

Thanks for the picture! its going to come in handy tomorrow when I talk to the service rep. I looked at mine today at the shop, they finished the tear down, I guess they did it assuming it will be covered?? Anyway my shift fork is VERY worn. Its chewed way back in and it looks like its only allowing the locker to engage maybe 1/8th of an inch at the very most. Still need to determine why this happen but again, were making more progress. And now the best news so far, kubota sales department gave me a credit for the troubles I've been having and Pristows made me a super duper deal on a new L3400. So after I talk to the service rep tomorrow and inform him he WILL be fixing my 7800, no more BS, I'll be purchasing me a new l3400.

 

[captin_insano]

The warranty rep said they would fix it. It wasnt without a little bit of a fight though, the conversation started off with him attempting to explain to me how the excessive wear on the shift fork was due to misuse or excessive use and that it wasnt allowing the pieces to engage properly. I asked him to pretend for a minute that I knew as much about what we were looking at as he did and asked him to start over. I was an a#@ but I simply wasnt going to hear the misuse thing. I could see there was a problem with the quality of the component and what I wanted to hear was what we were going to do to diagnose the root cause and fix it. We soon got on the same page and it was agreed that they will fix it. From what I gather though is that kubota warranty wont cover it but he has a budget of his own to cover certain things. I think he will expect my dealer to eat some of the bill which I told the rep I felt he shouldnt have too. I consider my warranty a contract, I just think the dealer should be paid as he would by warranty directly. They can work that out, my part of the battle is done. Anyway, the shift fork was worn about half through and where the roll pin pushes it it was worn as well. I dont know if worn is the right word for the pin area though, it was more like the metal was just pushed away in a pile. It was obviously soft, maybe didnt get heat treat or something??? I'm sure the vast majority are better quality. The collar part of the locker that the fork shifted had shown no wear but it was cracked where it was only engaging a tiny bit. I'm so glad to be done with this. I did the shopping, looked at deeres and others but I still think kubota is the better tractor and mine was a rare problem. So I own a new l3400 now, kubota sales gave me a credit and the dealer made me a real good deal on the L3400 or I would own a different tractor right now simply to get away from kubotas warranty department. I dont know how well the 3400 will be suited to my uses, its kinda bigger than I need since I have a wheel loader I use for heavy work but I'm hoping for years of service. I hope Kubota can get on the right track with warranty stuff, even though I think most of us wont need it, its import to know you can count on it when you do. Boo warranty for being D-bags, yeaaaaa sales and good dealer for keeping a customer!

 

[crbr]

.... I could see there was a problem with the quality of the component and what I wanted to hear was what we were going to do to diagnose the root cause and fix it. .................. or I would own a different tractor right now simply to get away from kubotas warranty department.

Kubota, meet Toyota. Ask them how they like a faulty component...

Mine is the same issue, same response from Kubota dealer. It's not just yours.

 

[captin_insano]

You got a 7800 with a bad diff lock? If so I hope you have a good dealer, mine put up with a bunch of attitude from me and still went above and beyond to see that I was made happy. Kubotas warranty department is not your friend and what I learned from this ordeal is you better hope your dealer is. maybe you'll have an easier time than I did, keep us posted.