Backhoe Backhoe quandary

[aloha]

I’m very close to making the commitment to a long term relationship, but I need advice. Either would probably make me happy. But is either really right for the long haul, or should I just pay by the hour as the need arises from time to time?

The tractor will be a Kubota B7800. Depending on which of 2 dealers gets my money, the backhoe will be either Woods 6500 or 7500 or Bradco 3265 or 3375. Unless, that is, I follow the advice of the sales guy who says it probably would be more cost effective to rent a backhoe when needed, but if I insist, he will sell me one. He may be right, but having it at home, ready for me every day of the week, sounds a lot more convenient.

The backhoe will dig footings for a garage/shop foundation, trench utilities, put in underground water tanks and septic system, plant trees. There are no current plans that will require digging deeper than about 6 feet. The soil should not present problems for any digging machine. I estimate about 3-4 weeks of backhoe work in the first year, then 3-4 days twice a year for grounds maintenance on 15 acres. If it isn’t getting much use after a couple years, I may then want to sell the backhoe.

The Bradco is being offered by this dealer only as a 3 PT hitch mount and with hydraulics off the tractor. The Woods can also be gotten as a 3 PT hitch mount and with hydraulics off the tractor, at a price nearly identical to the Bradco, or frame mounted at an additional cost of about $500, and with a PTO hydraulic pump at an additional cost of about $600.

With either brand, it adds about $500 to go from the 6.5 foot model to the 7.5 foot.

I know these are highly subjective, but my questions are:
-- Are there any strong reasons to choose one over the others between owning Bradco, owning Woods, or renting industrial grade equipment when needed?
-- Is it worth $500 for the extra foot of digging depth and marginally heftier construction and slightly greater digging force the 7.5 foot models offer?
-- Is it worth $500 to get a frame mounted backhoe, and would this present any issues regarding possible future resale?
-- Is it worth $600 for a PTO pump, and would this present any issues regarding possible future resale?

All comments will be appreciated.

And for bonus points, should the Bradco be the backhoe of choice simply because it would be orange?

 

[ronjhall]

aloha
I'm probably not going to answer your questions since I have a <font color="orange"> Kubota </font> B4690. But there are some thing to be aware when installing a Backhoe on a B27-2910 and B7800.

Click Here

Be aware that under some circumstances <font color="orange"> Kubota </font> may not warranty your tractor with certain attachments on your tractor. Check out this thread.

Click Here

If you go with a 3PH Backhoe be sure to add the Heavy Duty Top link Bracket.

Click Here

<font color="orange"> Kubota </font> recommends a folding ROPS when installing a Backhoe. Otherwise you will be hitting your head on the fixed one when operating a Backhoe.

 

[CTyler]

I have a Woods 9000 and its orange to match my tractor.
Go with the bigger hoe.

I've done everything you listed and more with mine. It would be cheaper to rent one for what you listed. Same thing for me, it would have been cheaper to rent. I have a few projects to do over the next couple years now that the house and shop are built. By the time I'm done the rental fee's would be about half the cost of the hoe. The conveiniance of having the hoe around to do little things, that you'd never rent one to do, is shear joy!

 

[CTyler]

I was considering the Bradco, which is a good unit, but the dealer swayed me to the Woods.

 

[txdon]

Aloha, I can’t help you with the specific brands mentioned, I got the BH90. It has been a pure joy to operate. It is definitely less expensive to rent unless you consider you own time. If I had a choice on doing a small project by hand, which would take about 3 hours, or rent a backhoe, which would take minimum of half a day, I would probably do it by hand, or not do it at all. But now I jump on my tractor and it takes about 15 minutes and it is fun and productive and I save so much time.
I would go with the larger backhoe. The productive angle for the best digging with the boom, dipperstick, and bucket is less than the maximum listed because the bucket has to be almost pointed toward you for best digging in new ground.

TXDon

 

[jmc]

aloha,

Just some misc. thoughts:

I think a backhoe is almost like a FEL in the sense that if you have one handy, uses come out of the woodwork.

The longer your backhoe, the less often you need to reposition the tractor, like in trenching. It seems that repositioning would be tiresome when you have to change seats each time. And if trenching efficiency is of concern, rent a trencher instead of an industrial backhoe, unless the trench needs to be wide.

The closest thing to a tractor mounted backhoe I've operated was one made for a CAT skidsteer that cost about $9000 and was probably heavy than most compact tractor models. Still, there was no comparison between it and the small industrial backhoe I'm familiar with (Case 480). If you have a big job, rent an industrial backhoe - plus you have an incredible loader available on the other end. If you don't have any real heavy lifting, and have the time and patience, you can do it with something smaller.

John

 

[gerard]

Here's my thoughts - you have enough work and spread out over enough time that it will be a lot easier to buy one, use it until you have the bulk of your projects done and then sell it. The depreciation will likley be less than the rental cost would have been, you won't be pressed for time to get things done before you return it, and you can then take your time selling it. You could also do what I did when I was putting in our koi pond. I bought a 20 year old 20K lb TLB for $8,000. Cost me another $100 to get it to my house. Used it all summer for projects and sold it in the fall for $8000. So my "rental" cost was $100, 5 gal of hydraulic fluid to top off, and I changed the oil and filter. Got to do things at my leisure, had a lot of fun, and got all my projects done. If you don't mind laying out a little more money and you buy it right you can get a nice machine for $12-15K or a nice mini excavator for around $10K which would be even better for your needs. Use it and sell it when done.

 

[EdKing]

<font color="blue"> -- Is it worth $500 for the extra foot of digging depth and marginally heftier construction and slightly greater digging force the 7.5 foot models offer? </font>

My backhoe is a 7.5 foot, and I sometimes wish it was a little longer. You can never have too much digging depth/reach.

<font color="blue"> -- Is it worth $500 to get a frame mounted backhoe, and would this present any issues regarding possible future resale? </font>

I would definitely go with the sub frame mount. I feel it's stronger, and less likely to damage the tractor if you get over exuberant in your use of the hoe. I have a sub frame mount.

<font color="blue">-- Is it worth $600 for a PTO pump, and would this present any issues regarding possible future resale? </font>

PTO pump advantages are not having to worry about loosing/contaiminating your hydraulic fluid if you bust a line on the backhoe, and possibly a higher flowrate for faster operation.

Advantage of using the tractor hydraulics is easier hookup and removal as you can manuever the hoe into posistion without having to hook up the PTO pump. I run mine off the tractor hydraulics.

As far as resale issues, I never planned on selling my backhoe (just way to useful) so I have never looked into/considered resale as an issue.

Hope this helps

 

[cbh]

I have a Kubota 4672A backhoe on my B7500. It's a 3-pt mount with the HD reinforced top link and uses a PTO pump. I have found it useful, but If I could do it again, I would go with a subframe mount and use tractor hydraulics. My 3-pt BH gives the tractor a real workout, and the jarring motion transmitted to the tractor hitch just can't be good for it, regardless of the HD bracket.

After using my BH, I did some research on the Eaton PTO pump, and found it has no more capacity than the tractor hydraulics, so it is redundant, a nuisance to connect, and increases maintenance costs (more hyd. fluid, filters, etc.).

The only downside to the subframe mount is possible reduced ground clearance or inteference with a mid-mount mower, which should be avoidable by choosing a good BH design. A knowledgeable dealer can be helpful here.

As for renting vs. owning, that is a moot point for me as my local dealer has stopped renting large backhoes by the day, only by the week. If the subframe mount fits the Kubota B2710/2910/7800, I don't think you will have a problem with resale if you buy the 7.5 ft model. At the low financing rates Kubota has, it is a reasonable proposition to use it a few years and then sell it. I'll probably do the same.

By the way, according to my dealer, I can sell the backhoe attachment before my Kubota loan is paid off, as long as the payments already made exceed the original sale price of the backhoe.

 

[GrayBeard]

My vote is with the sub frame and tractor hydraulics. Mine is 6.5' never used a 7.5.
I didn't know I needed one so much until I got it.
When one project is done another seems to come up.
I was all done this Fall "till Isabel blew thru. (17 trees upset)
Now I'm digging stumps; between snow storms...
GrayBeard

 

[GregJ]

One thing you're sure to get here is a lot of different opinions. I have a Kubota B7500 and a Kubota 4672 BH. It is 3pt with it's own hydraulics. I have really used mine a lot in the last year and a half. In fact I think I use it almost as much as the FEL. It is really nice to have it available. I never dreamt I would use it as much as I do. So... my vote would be to definitely buy one so you can use it at your convenience. You'll be amazed at all the little projects that come up that couldn't be done without a BH. I read where CBH has not been pleased with his 4672, but I have really liked mine. Now that I have had it for a while I can remove and install it in 5-10 minutes. It did take me a while before I could do it that easily, but it's no big deal now. Is there a reason why you haven't looked at the Kubota backhoes?

Greg

 

[theonlybull]

definatly get the 7.5' hoe. our 580 case has 14' reach and it's about 9' too short.

the length of the hoe also helps you get dirt, stumps, etc. away from the machine, which you'll find, is the most difficult part of running a hoe.

 

[AndyMA]

I agree, get the 7.5' hoe. My first tractor didn't have a backhoe for half it's life and I was always coming up with needs for one. My last several machines have all had backhoes. I couldn't imagine being without one. Most of the jobs that people on the board struggle with FEL's over are really backhoe jobs. The main reason I have 2 tractors is so that I never have to take the backhoe off. Even for jobs as simple as grading with a boxblade, I usually loosen up the soil and rocks with the backhoe before going over it with the boxblade or york rake. My smaller tractors all had subframe mounts and I wouldn't recomend a 3pt hitch on any Cat I machine. Too big a chance of case damage. My latest backhoe is on a 75 hp cat II, New Holland TN and there is no comparison to the 3 pt strength and also the backhoe steel. All of my backhoes up to the current one used tractor hydraulics and I had no problems. They were never used on any other machines so hydraulic fluid mixing wasn't a problem. Renting for me is not an option because any day I do tractor work that is not mowing, I spend a few hours on the backhoe. If I had to rent I just wouldn't bother doing it.
Just my experiences.

Andy

 

[Henro]

Well..........

I say forget the B7800 and go for the L3130 or 3430 with the BH90 hoe...

I know you said the tractor will be a B7800...why?

I have a B2910...I love it. It is a good tractor. I have the 7.5 foot backhoe. I wish I had more reach sometime and more omph...when digging out stumps.

The BH90 is a better backhoe in my opinion. I feel in love with one...but probably will never own one... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Because the smaller one on my B2910 does work for me.

But ! the price between the Lseries and B series is not that great in the long run. My B2910 seemed big in the beginning but gets smaller the more I use it.

If you can afford it I propose you go for the L series with the BH90 backhoe. Do it right the first time! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Now if you can't afford it...the B7800 with a 7.5 foot backhoe will be nice too... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Personally, I still wish I could swing the L series with the BH90 though... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I like the seperate pto pump as it keeps the hydraulics of the hoe seperate from the tractor...YMMV

A subframe backhoe is probably better than a 3ph backhoe. Provided that the tractor manufacturer will honor the warrenty if something goes wrong.

$500 is a small percentage of the total cost probably...

Have fun deciding!!! And please let us know the out come!

 

[cbh]

I don't think I said I don't like my backhoe, I just think Kubota could do a better job with one for the very popular B series line of tractors. Why doesn't Kubota offer a subframe mount version? Who better to design one that is compatible with their mower decks and maintains ground clearance? Why use a PTO pump if all of the B series have hydraulics with sufficient flow and pressure? If a front loader doesn't need isolated hydraulics, then why should a backhoe need them?

I think the design of the BX backhoe is the direction the B series should move toward, except that it should be optional. I really believe Kubota would sell more backhoes this way instead of giving sales to their attachment competitors.

 

[GregJ]

CBH,
I have to agree with you. However I do like the seperate hydraulics, but I guess that's just personal preference. Like Henro, I think the 3130 and the BH90 hoe is an incredible package. It really is in a different league. A scaled down version the size of a B7500/7800 would be a nice machine. I also like the idea of matching a tractor with a BH built and designed by the same company. I know that Woods and Bradco are great machines, but it's just a personal preference.
I'm just guessin' here, but I think we will be getting reviews on a 3x30 / BH90 package from Henro pretty soon......

Greg

 

[mrcaptainbob]

My tractors are tiny-tot's compared to the big toy's you guy's usually discuss here. But.......Some time back I built a stand-alone 'backhoe'. It has a five foot reach, and I now wish I did the one two sizes up. The stand alone feature is worth it's weight in gold! Doesn't tie up the machine from doing other chores, such as hauling away what was just dug. The more relief from the base machine, the better.

 

[del]

Sure you may be able to survive a 3pt hoe. Maybe your tractor
will, or maybe you'll be out more money than you can believe.
As far as resale, the only thing worse then a new tractor
with a 3 point is a used tractor with one.

Get yourself a Woods mower, an ATI grapple attachment, a
Landpride tiller but get a Kubota loader and backhoe. You
wont' be sorry years down the road.

Go look at a Kubota B21 and see how the loader and backhoe
are attached to the tractor. This is as close to correct
as possible. Now look at a frame mount on the 7800. It isn't
close to what's on the B21. But's its a good compromise
if you aren't going to spend 80% of your life digging.

I'm not trying to be negative but a lot of people on this
board that have 3 point hoes and are happy with them don't
have multi-hundreds of hours on the hoe. I've seen some
older tractor that have all kinds of problems from this.

No I don't work for Kubota or Deere or Ford. I have a green,
an orange and a blue tractor in the garage though.

Some dealers love to sell aftermarket hoes I'm guessing
there is more money that route. Twenty years ago I suffered
through some minor tractor damage and injury to myself from
their stupidity. (I wasn't stupid, just ignorant).

A local JD dealer loves these, I took a picture of a label
on one of them. If new to the forum, click on the "attachment" link in this post

What is "heavy" use?...digging?

They are the same brands your dealer is
steering you to. Ask him if Kubota covers damage to the
tractor while using them. (get it in writing)



If you want to save money get a used tractor, stop buying beer, whatever, but get a factory frame mounted hoe. (My 2 cents)

I will never go back to even a frame mount backhoe on a
CUT that wasn't designed from the ground up to have a hoe
on it. Of course I'm lucky enough to have a wife that lets
me have more than 1 tractor so I don't have 3point implement
hookup issues.

Sorry for the preaching. At least you're getting armed with
more info then most fellows have access to at the get-go.

del

 

[del]

Here's the picture

 

[rambler]

I'm looking too & have no experience.

I would go for a frame mount, too easy to break the tractor with 3pt, from a $50 bracket to the rear casting $$$$$.

All the rest is up to you, 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. Bigger hoe is better, but more stress on your tractor..... What to do?

-->Paul