Backhoe Backhoe quandary

[PineRidge]

<font color="blue"> If you want to save money get a used tractor, stop buying beer, whatever, but get a factory frame mounted hoe. (My 2 cents)
</font>

I am the type that likes to do his homework before making any large purchase. Before I made my investment in a factory frame mounted backhoe I called my local gas supplier and talked with their service department. I wanted to know what the utility company used when they needed to dig in a trench. I figured that these boys would be using them on an almost daily basis. I was told that years ago they had indeed used 3-point mounted backhoes to cut the cost on equipment purchased. They also quickly found out that the repairs to those same tractors outweighed the savings made by the 3-point attached hoes. They cut their losses and moved on to the frame mounted backhoes and now use them exclusively. I also talked with a local New Holland dealer that backed up that very same story, seems he also furnishes some of the frame mounted Bradco backhoes to that same utility company.

I guess it’s the old story, “Pay me now, or pay me later.” When it comes to backhoes

 

[tawilson]

I plan on putting a backhoe on my 2120 in a couple of months. My New Holland dealer said Woods is coming out with a subframe that bolts on and stays with the tractor. As far as putting them on the new tractors, he said once the tractor manufacturers stopped warranting damage from aftermarket backhoes, the aftermarket manufacturers had to cover damage to the tractors if they wanted to keep selling equipment.

 

[PineRidge]

<font color="blue"> I plan on putting a backhoe on my 2120 in a couple of months. My New Holland dealer said Woods is coming out with a subframe that bolts on and stays with the tractor. </font>

Once my New Holland backhoe is dropped the subframe stays with the backhoe. It makes for a longer backhoe package for storage but it keeps the tractor cleaner after its dropped. I found that I can drop mine on two appliance dollies so that it can be moved around without much trouble. I did see another TBN'er post pictures of a custom made welded steel backhoe dollie that I am planning to make for a future project.

 

[aloha]

Thank you, one and all. The response to my questions has been fantastic.

My money manager read through the responses, made a few cracks of “sounds like backhoe envy” and “I want to know what are all these other projects that they use their backhoes for,” and then issued her decree: “I think we should own one that is big and strong.” So we will be going with 7.5 foot depth and subframe mount. And it sounds like using tractor hydraulics makes sense for us. The comments regarding easier/faster installation with the subframe mount and using tractor hydraulics rather than PTO pump were especially persuasive since we will be a one-tractor household.

I do like the looks of the Kubota BL 4690,but question whether it is worth the extra cost compared to Woods or Bradco. And the local dealer pushing the Kubota backhoe said it had only a 1 year warranty, which does not compare favorably. The third strike against it was the irritating dealer. I did read and considered the warranty issues when mixing implements. It may get complicated if something breaks and it is not obviously a manufacturing defect, but in a worst case one sues both Kubota and the implement manufacturer, and then stands back while they point fingers at one another.

The Kubota L3130 does appear to offer tremendous value, but is in a league different from where I plan to play.

The backhoe quandary now being settled, we are ready to go buy. Again, thanks to all.

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> The Kubota L3130 does appear to offer tremendous value, but is in a league different from where I plan to play. </font>

I know the feeling!

Summer of 2002 I started looking at the bX22 and decided on the B2410 and on a whim changed my idea and bought a B2910. I had seen a b2910 previously, and had decided it was without question too big for me and my needs with only 3.7 acres...but I bought one anyway.

I can honestly say that as time goes by it keeps getting smaller! No doubt in my mind that I would be quite happy with a L3130 [or 3430] and BH90 backhoe. I may just for fun ask my dealer how much it would cost if I traded my B2910 in...

Aloha, did you mention how much land you have? Sorry, I don't remember and your profile does not say much...

I know you think you don't want to consider an L series...but I kinda wish I would have...costs more to do it twice so I probably won't... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Just trying to share my personal experience...not trying to tell you what to do...only you know best what your needs probably are... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I say probably because I thought I bought more than I certainly needed...and I probably regret it a little now... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif but not too much. The B7800/B2910 are nice tractors too... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[aloha]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( did you mention how much land you have? )</font>
15 acres.

Perhaps what ultimately keeps me away from the L series is the big increase in weight from the B series, more than 1500 lb. It would mean needing also to buy a larger tow vehicle for those times the tractor will get to go play out and about.

It reminds me of the boater's problem: one's current boat, whatever size it may be, is always 2 feet shorter than the ideal boat length.

 

[Henro]

Another thing probably relates to grass cutting, at least for me.

Since I also now have a BX2200, the thought of going bigger does not [in my case]cause any concern related to the impact a large tractor would have on the grass cutting side of the equation.

And towing...well I don't have a trailer... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

You will not be dissappointed with the B7800/B2910 tractor I am sure...

 

[del]

Lawsuits against both manufacturers usually work that way. Ask the people with the
Class "A" motorhomes how hard it is sometimes to resolve
problems between the coach manufacturer and the chassis
manufacturer.

It can still fall on you. Why put yourself in such a
position right off the bat? To me tractors and tractoring
is something I do to relax, and lawsuits don't figure into
that.

I've learned from this thread as well. I have not seen
a non OEM backhoe that is frame mounted but it appears they
exist or are coming; and I've never seen a Kubota 3-point
backhoe and it surprises me they would sell such a device.

It's much quicker if you don't have to remove and replace
the 3 point arms to use a backhoe, but every inch a backhoe
is mounted rearward makes it less useable for ramp clearance
issues, off road issues and stress on the tractor.

What would be really slick is if someone came up with a
"backhoe hitch" design that all the OEMs' used, very strong
just for a hoe. The 3 point is designed for implements that
have to move up and down which a backhoe doesn't. If there
was some sort of massive frame mount structure to mount a
"built for that" hoe everything would be solved. Like the
skid-steer mounting system.

Any hoe would work on any tractor without question, come off
and come on without much delay and be structurally sound.

Someday maybe!

del

 

[tawilson]

"What would be really slick is if someone came up with a
"backhoe hitch" design that all the OEMs' used, very strong
just for a hoe."
Maybe that's what Woods is heading towards with the permanently attached frame I mentioned in my earlier post. I haven't seen any info on it yet, just know what my dealer told me. What I like is the fact that it is bolted to the tractor instead of pinned. Seems like it would be more solid. Also might give some protection underneath from stumps, etc. Mayhaps would strengthen the whole tractor. I couldn't find any information on the woods site about it.

 

[EdKing]

<font color="blue">My money manager read through the responses, made a few cracks of “sounds like backhoe envy” and “I want to know what are all these other projects that they use their backhoes for,” </font>

That must be what all "Money Managers" think/say. I remember when I was talking my "Money Manager" into getting the tractor in the first place, she kept asking "What do you need that for ?". Now after seeing what I can do with the tractor, she says "Hey, can you do this ?" or "Hey, I need you to do that." It's funny how they switch from "Why do you need that" to " Lets do this and that" or " I'm glad you have this, now you can do this for me."

 

[jinman]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The backhoe will dig footings for a garage/shop foundation, trench utilities, put in underground water tanks and septic system, plant trees. )</font>

Aloha, I look at your list of items, and I can't help but think you will be spending $5,000 for $500 worth of work. How close is a place to you that rents backhoes? Does your tractor dealer rent them? I would love to have a backhoe of my own, but I just can't bring myself to spend that much money on one. You'll have to remove it every time you want to put any other implement on besides your FEL. My suggestion to you would be just the opposite of what you said you would do for the first two years. Instead of buying the backhoe and then maybe selling it after two years, why not buy the tractor without the backhoe and wait two years to see if you really need a backhoe?

When I had my septic system installed, it had to be done by a state licensed contractor who showed up with his own backhoe to do the job. Most of these guys know exactly what they need to do and honestly, if I'd been trying to do my own hoe work, he'd probably charged me double or maybe even refused to do the job. I don't know your situation, but this is just my thought about the septic system. When I had my house built, the builder, plumbers, and concrete guy all showed up with their own tractors. I even offered my tractor a few times to move some dirt, but they used their own smaller and less capable machines. They didn't want me or my tractor anywhere near the job. The one exception was the excavator who piled up dirt and then let me haul it to where I wanted to fill some low spots.

Lots of rental places have small tractors with backhoes you can rent to do all the jobs you mentioned in your original post. Let me be the first to say that I'm no expert on backhoes for your machine. I really don't know if $5000 is too high or too low. I'm just suggesting that you consider how close you are to a rental yard, if you have a vehicle that can tow a small backhoe on a trailer to save delivery charges, and if you are willing to have a little more inconvenience each time you need the backhoe. Just remember, you can buy a lot of other nice implements for that $5000 price. If you watch it sit with very little use for two years, you may be asking the same types of questions I'm asking you now. Whatever your decision, I'm sure you'll get plenty of good advice here on TBN. This is one heck of a great resource. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[John_Mc]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( "What would be really slick is if someone came up with a
"backhoe hitch" design that all the OEMs' used, very strong
just for a hoe."
Maybe that's what Woods is heading towards with the permanently attached frame I mentioned in my earlier post. I haven't seen any info on it yet, just know what my dealer told me.... I couldn't find any information on the woods site about it. )</font>

They call it their "four point hitch" backhoe frame, and it's already available for Kubota compacts... I saw one at my Kubota / NH dealer. Unfortunately for me, it's not yet available for NH compacts.

John Mc

 

[mrcaptainbob]

HA!!!!!! I must've married her sister!!!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[lamarbur]

If you can do a septic system (digging part only) and all the rest as you listed in Texas for 500, the septic must be an old rusted 55 gal drum. In New Englan area one will pay over two grand for the leech field and tank hole alone. Add footing, depending on how deep and the rest and it's 5 grand plus, not 500.

 

[txdon]

With 15 acres the L3130 would fit nicely (depending on the land of course). My dealer told me about the Austin man he tried to talk out of buying a L5030 for 2 acres. Several months later the Austin man told the dealer that the tractor was just the right size. The BH 90 (Frame mount and tractor hydralics) fits the L3130 and the extra weight helps when backhoeing.
TXDon

 

[jinman]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( it's 5 grand plus, not 500.
)</font>

You are exactly right about the cost. I have an aerobic septic system and it was over $6000, but that was not what I meant by the $500. I was talking about the rental of a backhoe instead of buying one. Either way, the cost of the septic system will be the same whether you are using a rented tractor or one you own. Do people often design and build their own septic systems in your area? I had to hire a sanitary engineer to plan my site and a state licensed installer whether I was putting in a conventional system or my aerobic system.

The other nice thing about renting is that you don't just have one tractor. You can choose a big loader backhoe for those big jobs and rent a small backhoe for the small jobs in tight spots. There are many benefits to owning, but the benefit of renting is that you have many more choices of what tool to use.

 

[lamarbur]

people here, cannot under any circumstance, design their own systems.. has to be by a registered and up to date insured engineer. And, the varous towns board of health really make sure of this. Remember too, the Pilgrims landed here before finding the Alamo/Dallas etc, ( /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif, and we've had over 200 years of systems. Now it is much harder to meet a safe system in this neighborhood,

 

[kn6md]

Your choice of a subframe mount will allow you to use the backhoe to pick the machine up off of its feet in order to (gently) move it right or left and set it down exactly centered on the dig line.

Without that capability, it would take me forever to dig a perfectly straight trench.

Be sure to raise the FEL off of the ground a couple of feet so that the machine rotates on the front tires during the centering process.

Regards,

Bill Vorhies

 

[aloha]

For good, bad, or indifferent, the order is in for the Kubota B7800 and Woods BH 7500 with subframe mount and hydraulics off the tractor (plus the other necessaries: FEL, box scraper, brush hog, and post hole digger).

I'll give a report when the main work is done, probably a year from now, or if anything substantial happens during construction.

Again, thanks to all for the comments and advice given this newbie. You TBN regulars make this a great place to learn.

 

[CTyler]

You will be happy with it. The thing you WON'T like however is when its raining and have to be content to just look at it.