Baling with Hst?

[Branchchipper]

A old debate has resurfaced locally. I remember many past discussions about the inadvisability of using a hydrostatic tractor to run a pto baler.
I realized that I don't, however, have any concrete evidence that this is "bad" for the tractor.

In my neighborhood are an L5030hst, a Ford 3000 and a Ford 5000. In my book, the 5000 is the obvious baler tractor (the baler in question this time is an older mid-size JD rectangular baler of unknown PTO hp requirement)

Of the three tractors, however, the L5030hst, however, is in the best shape with regard to brakes and everything else.

So, what are the issues with this load on the Hst's pto (provided that it turned out to be an OK match with regard to pto hp)?

 

[JasG]

A old debate has resurfaced locally. I remember many past discussions about the inadvisability of using a hydrostatic tractor to run a pto baler.
I realized that I don't, however, have any concrete evidence that this is "bad" for the tractor.

In my neighborhood are an L5030hst, a Ford 3000 and a Ford 5000. In my book, the 5000 is the obvious baler tractor (the baler in question this time is an older mid-size JD rectangular baler of unknown PTO hp requirement)

Of the three tractors, however, the L5030hst, however, is in the best shape with regard to brakes and everything else.

So, what are the issues with this load on the Hst's pto (provided that it turned out to be an OK match with regard to pto hp)?

I don't think it's the load on the PTO. I thought if I remember right it was more of the load the baler puts on the trans. The plunger going back and forth puts stress on the trans. Or at least I know some have claimed that. I have never baled with a HST so never tried it.

 

[Baby Grand]

Maybe by saying HST you are defining an upper limit to tractor HP that implies a tractor weight that doesn't work well with most full sized balers? Not sure if that's even remotely true...

 

[Branchchipper]

I don't think it's the load on the PTO. I thought if I remember right it was more of the load the baler puts on the trans. The plunger going back and forth puts stress on the trans. Or at least I know some have claimed that. I have never baled with a HST so never tried it.

That plunger stress load is exactly the issue, from what I've been told.

I just wanted to see if anyone had specific experience with or evidence of same.

 

[zzvyb6]

I bale with a older small hp requirement baler. Used it with a 22hp Yanmar, too. (which I just located some old VHS video of). Its NOT a power problem, cooling maybe.

That being said, I would use the heaviest tractor available for the most comfort. The plunger loads are filtered by the inertia of the flywheel. Make sure the hitch is tight. Most complaints come as a reslt of a sloppy hitch in the fore aft direction which makes the combination of tractor, baler and wagons chuck back and forth.

On a HST, trans cooling fan and oild cooler should be checked to make sure its all there. I would say that designers know that their products will be used for this application.

Plenty of videos of an HST baling on YouTube....

 

[slowzuki]

HST is fantastic on a baler, the older IH's were popular. I've used my L5030HSTC for years, its baled about 30,000 bales now? I use my MF5455 sometimes now but the Kubota is still handier.

 

[Grateful11]

My son ground feed with the L3940 and a CaseIH 1250 Grinder/Mixer the other week because everything else was either busy or had something hooked up to it. To his surprise it pulled the big grinder like a charm. Now he didn't feed the Oats, ear Corn and pellet protein feed like he would have with the 100hp tractor but he said it did great. I shot a short video of it pulling the PTO driven grinder.

 

[Grateful11]

That plunger stress load is exactly the issue, from what I've been told.

I just wanted to see if anyone had specific experience with or evidence of same.

I could see that. I've seen the ol' JD 24T baler rock the IH 574 back and forth a few inches with it sitting still on flat ground in neutral without the park brake set, I'm certain it was the plunger doing it.

 

[SPYDERLK]

The problem is that the plunger strokes can cause distinct repetitive changes in the pull force. In the range for desired travel speed, these can easily be enuf to near or exceed the pressure relief rating of the hyd drive. Multiply this by 60 per minute ... for hrs.
larry

 

[art]

Any PTO work is best done by hydro's because of the ability to adjust to the work. The rocking from square balers has never been a problem for hydro's although I could see where someone could use it to slander the hydro's ability.

We had a fellow who had some hay down and the ford 5000 broke and rain was coming. The only other tractor that was available was the BX 24 that was towing the wagons so that is what they baled the last two loads with!

 

[SPYDERLK]

Any PTO work is best done by hydro's because of the ability to adjust to the work. The rocking from square balers has never been a problem for hydro's although I could see where someone could use it to slander the hydro's ability.

We had a fellow who had some hay down and the ford 5000 broke and rain was coming. The only other tractor that was available was the BX 24 that was towing the wagons so that is what they baled the last two loads with!

I too have baled with a BX. Works fine, but you wont get many hrs baling before it breaks. On mine it was the cradle bearing.
larry

 

[dex3361]

I too have baled with a BX. Works fine, but you wont get many hrs baling before it breaks. On mine it was the cradle bearing.
larry

If I am not mistaken your BX is a BX1500 with 10HP at the PTO. Is this the BX tractor you baled with? I thought I had read that you had a cradle bearing go bad in your BX1500 a while back.

 

[SPYDERLK]

If I am not mistaken your BX is a BX1500 with 10HP at the PTO. Is this the BX tractor you baled with? I thought I had read that you had a cradle bearing go bad in your BX1500 a while back.

Yes. However the PTO was not the issue. It was the prevalent repetitive large change in the force required at the wheels.
larry

 

[art]

Ouch! I didn't say it was right!

 

[SPYDERLK]

Ouch! I didn't say it was right!

Yeah, bigger would be better, but chances are you would just make bigger rows and go faster. The problem of continous surge pulsing in the hyd trans will always be an issue. Gear trans have a much larger safety factor built in as pure strength, whereas hyd falls back to rely on a quick acting relief valve set closer to the harm point.
larry

 

[ctlguy]

I have not seen any issues on the topic of cut hydro's and small square balers myself if matched appropriatly to the hp and chassis need. There is a specific issue regarding large square balers and hydro based trasnmissions for the plunger cycle reason but those machines have a quite a bit more inertia during that process than the small and very light by comparison flywheel on a small baller. IMO

 

[art]

I can't say with all the tractors that we have sold that we have ever had an issue with a hydro from baling hay.
Most owners rave about them.

We don't have any on the large square balers that I know of but when working with them at the normal speeds of baling the plunger barely effects the tractor compared to just sitting large or small square.

 

[slowzuki]

We bale with the L5030HSTC that weighs in at 6500 lb all dressed, it only really rocks the tractor when parked and no hay is feeding. We also use our 100 hp MF 5455, weighs in at almost 12,000 lb all dressed, when parked with no hay, it feels to be the same amount of rocking.

I was worried about it when we first started but like I said we've got about 30,000 bales / 300 hours+ of square baling on it trouble free. The hst clutch is great for starting the load up nice and gently too.

 

[slowzuki]

From 7 years ago.

 

[dex3361]

Yes. However the PTO was not the issue. It was the prevalent repetitive large change in the force required at the wheels.
larry

I would like to hear the story about this and yes I imagine you could damage a BX1500 with a baler just so much mass back a forth. Well I guess I can scratch the BX baler combo thing off my list of BX tasks.