Best all around gun?

[GolfAddict]

Just a joke GA, albeit a poor one though.....:laughing:

Funny how this thread didn't start out by being a flaming type.....:confused2:...

It was hilarious! That's why I won't edit my original post - you made a salient new analogy in your response - perfect!! :laughing::thumbsup:

 

[5030]

But you can only afford one. Which one...?

What is that told saying, "Fear the guy with only one gun, because he probably knows how to use it"

My BIL to a tee. Him and his trusty Wilson Combat. He shoots 500 handloads in an afternoon and loads another 500 on his Dillon. Shoot, load, shoot load, shoot load. He's a crack shot, practices a lot.... I think he's contributing to lead poisoning of the trees out at the club.....:laughing:

 

[k0ua]

Insurance is good. We hope and pray we don't get sick, catch the house on fire, have a car wreck, or get sued but it can and does happen so most reasonable people have insurance. There are documented cases of people being hit by meteorites. I saw on the news decades ago where a lady was injured when she was sitting watching TV when a meteorite crashed down through her house and hit her on the head.

Statistics tell us that the odds of a residential structure receiving significant tornadic damage is on the order of once in four thousand years in tornado alley. (NOAA severe weather center at Norman, Oklahoma) I live in the heart of tornado alley and my bed room is a safe room. Is that overkill? Most folks think not.

There are multiple components of risk management. How likely is the event in question. What are the consequences if it happens? What is the cost of amelioration?

Home invasion is not highly likely but if it occurs what are the likely worst case consequences. What does it cost to have insurance (a gun equal to your needs that you are properly trained on.) A few hundred bucks and a few hours of probably mostly pleasant time. I would be a sad person if something happened that was so very simple to avert by being good enough with a readily available gun to protect my life and the lives of any persons at my home.

I am an avid reader of "The Armed Citizen" a monthly reprint of news stories where people have defended their lives, the lives of others and or property by the use of firearms. There are always several stories per month.

Times they are a changing with more amoral people, lowered standards of what passes for civilization, all of which will increase the need for protection.

I don't wear a hard hat to watch TV. I do have self protection guns for use at home, on my person, and in my vehicle when travelling. My wife is also trained and lisc for CCW. We aren't gun fanatics nor "survivalist extremists but when you live 30 min from getting a LEO on site (if you are lucky) you need to be able to take care of yourself. What happens in the first minute of a PROBLEM will likely determine the outcome. Late arriving LEO will file a report or call the meat wagon to haul off any bodies. Whose bodies do you prefer it to be, yours and your loved ones or the bad guys?

Repeating a mantra of it will never happen to me it will never happen to me etc etc offers little realistic protection.

Like with all insurance, I hope to never need it whether for fire, flood, hail, tornado, car wreck or pull my CCW in earnest but having it is a good idea.

Pat

Very well said Pat, an excellent explanation of a complex subject.:thumbsup:

James K0UA

 

[patrick_g]

As I've said, I respect people's choices. I just expect them to respect mine, too.

I respect people's right to make a choice but my respect for their choice depends on my assessment of its applicability.

Not having filled out much in your profile and mentioning "in your country"... OK drop the other shoe, what country?

I respect the decision of Quakers and others to not take up arms even in self defense. I don't agree but if that is their decision (and it likely doesn't have much effect on me and mine) I can accept it.

Regarding risk management.. some people walk across the street without looking either way and survive. Does this make it smart behavior? I think it is more like the guy who fell from a tall building and about halfway down he called out to folks watching his progress, "hey! so far so good!"

Pat

 

[patrick_g]

Very well said Pat, an excellent explanation of a complex subject.:thumbsup:

James K0UA

Thank you very much. I sometimes suffer from "professorial disease" and when asked what time is it I don't just tell the asker how to make a watch but launch into a lecture on horology!

Pat (N6AYR who may one day upgrade from general and get a 5 call)

 

[Creemore]

I respect people's right to make a choice but my respect for their choice depends on my assessment of its applicability.

Not having filled out much in your profile and mentioning "in your country"... OK drop the other shoe, what country?

I respect the decision of Quakers and others to not take up arms even in self defense. I don't agree but if that is their decision (and it likely doesn't have much effect on me and mine) I can accept it.

Regarding risk management.. some people walk across the street without looking either way and survive. Does this make it smart behavior? I think it is more like the guy who fell from a tall building and about halfway down he called out to folks watching his progress, "hey! so far so good!"

Pat

Sorry, my apologies. I thought I'd answered a location question when I signed up (longtime lurker). I'm in Canada.

With respect, not having a gun loaded and ready to use is hardly the same as walking across a street without looking, not here, anyway. I've had the great misfortune to spend time around actuaries Risk is a quantifiable thing, if you take emotion out of it. If I recall my gun safety course accurately, roughly 85% of gun deaths in Canada are due to accidental discharge and suicide, and that's out of a total number in the mere hundreds. So the odds are very low, while the risk attached to protection is concomitantly high. For me, it doesn't make sense. I have guns, they're suited to the most likely need, and they're stored where they can't be stolen or messed around with.

I wear a helmet on my horse and when I'm cycling, I cook ground beef all the way through, I don't text in my car. These are my choices. I respect yours and even understand them, given an American's lifetime odds of assault with a gun are something like 1:350. But I'd appreciate it if you didn't infer, however obliquely, that I'm a fool.

 

[brin]

Sorry, my apologies. I thought I'd answered a location question when I signed up (longtime lurker). I'm in Canada.

With respect, not having a gun loaded and ready to use is hardly the same as walking across a street without looking, not here, anyway. I've had the great misfortune to spend time around actuaries Risk is a quantifiable thing, if you take emotion out of it. If I recall my gun safety course accurately, roughly 85% of gun deaths in Canada are due to accidental discharge and suicide, and that's out of a total number in the mere hundreds. So the odds are very low, while the risk attached to protection is concomitantly high. For me, it doesn't make sense. I have guns, they're suited to the most likely need, and they're stored where they can't be stolen or messed around with.

I wear a helmet on my horse and when I'm cycling, I cook ground beef all the way through, I don't text in my car. These are my choices. I respect yours and even understand them, given an American's lifetime odds of assault with a gun are something like 1:350. But I'd appreciate it if you didn't infer, however obliquely, that I'm a fool.

Creemore...Each to his own but I look at it this way...I have a PTO generator in case my power goes out so my family has water , light and heat etc., I keep a store of extra food in case our food supplies are disrupted by a tornado or hurricane or even something else...so I take precautions to be prepared or eventualities that may occur...I also keep many locked and loaded weapons...pistols , rifles and shotguns..I am ready in the event , no matter how unlikely , that some vicious criminal attempts to invade my home...I will protect my family at all costs...I fail to see how being prepared to defend against an intruder is any different than being prepared to overcome any of natures challenges....Clue me in....what am I missing ?

 

[RoyJackson]

Creemore...Each to his own but I look at it this way...I have a PTO generator in case my power goes out so my family has water , light and heat etc., I keep a store of extra food in case our food supplies are disrupted by a tornado or hurricane or even something else...so I take precautions to be prepared or eventualities that may occur...I also keep many locked and loaded weapons...pistols , rifles and shotguns..I am ready in the event , no matter how unlikely , that some vicious criminal attempts to invade my home...I will protect my family at all costs...I fail to see how being prepared to defend against an intruder is any different than being prepared to overcome any of natures challenges....Clue me in....what am I missing ?

And a lot of Americans just like guns!

Creemore, being Canadian, probably doesn't have too much history with firearms (other then the occasional hunting rifle). He has also been raised with an anti-firearm mindset. Canada is, I'm sure, a wonderful country...but it has had a leftist form of government for as long as I can remember.

 

[patrick_g]

Creemore, Please do not misinterpret anything I may have said as indicating in any manner that you are a fool. I know you are not a fool and it is evident to anyone reading your posts who themselves are not a fool!

I have stayed somewhat informed on the Canadian "long gun" issue and the demographics of the pro and con sides. I'm sorry to see such a great people forced more toward being subjects instead of citizens.

I regret the anti-gun situation of the UK, Canada, and Australia. Being conversant with actuary tables and the stats from which they are derived you can rightfully discern the difference between "the promise" and the reality of the "de-gunning" of the UK, Canada, and Australia.

The promise in each case but certainly in the UK was a lower crime rate especially gun related crimes. Didn't happen. Crime in general especially violent crime went up significantly and gun crime really increased. Of course the criminals still can get guns but the "good guys" the law abiding citizens (subjects) are unarmed prey for the predators.

In the US the anti-gun types predicted chaos if citizens could have self defense weapons. Every bar would be an OK Corral shoot out every night and twice on Saturday. Didn't happen.

Gun crime by legal CCW folks is essentially non-existent. Crime in general especially murders and gun crimes are at an all time low for recent decades in the US and legal sales of hand guns and assault rifles are at an all time high. Apparently more legal assault rifles and handguns do not increase crime.

It so happens my newest target rifle (black magazine fed assault rifle type but with bull barrel) for 1000 meter shooting is a Creedmore 6.5 mm.

So you see I'm doing my part to reduce crime, I bought an assault rifle and some hand guns.

My so far so good comment was mostly intended as a humorous way of pointing out that ANY decision you make regarding safety issues will appear to be a good one UNTIL something happens. Sort of a "life is what happens while you are making other plans" sort of thing.

There is also risk tolerance. Managing risk might entail just deciding under a regime of limited assets and resources to just taking your chances rather than being proactive. There are distinct differences between feeling safe and being safe. Situational awareness is not about being paranoid or scared all the time. Just more aware and prepared.

The more you have the ability to see things, that affect you in a negative way, how quickly you can see them, how good your planning is, gives you more options, and the more options you have the better it is for your safety and security.

I prefer to have the option of defending myself and any around me rather than trusting to luck (odds or actuary tables.) If only one person in 10.000 would be helped by being armed I'd hate to be the one guy unarmed and lose a friend, family member or my self to a bad guy. What is the cost of preparedness? A few hundred $ for a pistol and $50 for an 8 hour course for CCW.

I guess I am a coward, afraid to take my chances like a man. Remember I'm the guy whose bedroom is a safe room (my wife loves that) when the odds of having a tornado cause significant damage is once in 4000 years. I can't help thinking what I'd do without a safe room if this year was OUR year. Same thing re being able to defend myself and others within my purview.

Pat

 

[Creemore]

And a lot of Americans just like guns!

Creemore, being Canadian, probably doesn't have too much history with firearms (other then the occasional hunting rifle). He has also been raised with an anti-firearm mindset. Canada is, I'm sure, a wonderful country...but it has had a leftist form of government for as long as I can remember.

It's also pretty darn safe, FWIW. Our national murder rate per capita is less than a tenth of that of the US, despite the fact that more than a third of households in the country contain registered firearms. 85% of the population is urban, so you can conclude from this that there are just as many guns out here in the country as there are in your rural areas. So, with respect, you're dead wrong on that count.

Let me clue you in a little about this 'socialist country', since I've got a unique perspective on this being a dual citizen by accident of birth. I carry both passports and file taxes in both countries. It's true that there is a bigger social safety net here, and that a student can attend the best universities in the country for about $8,000 a year. But some surprises: Fiscally, we are far healthier and more stable than the US, as is our banking system. Also, the American government is FAR, FAR more intrusive in the lives of its citizens than the Canadian government is, especially where taxes are concerned. Americans are always shocked when I tell them the differences, and how free things really are here (we are also far less policed). Rural Canadians are some of the most libertarian people you're ever likely to meet. You shouldn't rely on stereotypes to do your thinking for you.

To brin, my short answer is this: I perceive more risk in having a loaded gun under the bed than in not having one. Simple as that. I, too, will do anything necessary to protect my family - and do. I'm motivated by the same thing you are.

Anyway, it's unfortunate that a couple of people here seem to need to 'win' this discussion, even though I've shown total respect for your free choices. And it's more unfortunate that RoyJackson took it to the level of nation-bashing.

So, I'm out. Not a big fan of forced conformity. Thanks for the dialogue.