Best Tractor Battery / charging system issues ?

[PatrickS2222]

All certainly relevant points - especially regular use and keeping charge level over 50%. General consensus amongst the automotive trade is a battery's worst enemies are sitting unused for extended time periods and being allowed to discharge significantly - to "deep cycle".

That said, there have been several notable exceptions as mentioned in recent posts. I had forgotten until now to include my own - a non-descript Chinese battery of some brand which would now be about 7yo, original battery in our 8kVA generator. We last used it just over 4 years ago during bad floods here - we were without electricity for four days. Unit ran exceptionally well, and powered everything we threw at it. Sinde then I start it occasionally, but it went untouched for two years at one stage. I put some fuel in a dry tank, turned the key, and it cranked for 3-4 secs and started as though it was working the previous day! I could not believe that puny little battery still had any life in it, much less start that albeit small Honda petrol engine! So much for maintenance charging, although there is nothing connected to discharge it, so there may also be some merit in merely disconnecting them.

Some pertinent reading I found informative if anyone is interested:

Charging Information For Lead Acid Batteries – Battery University

Battery Maintenance Facts

Charging Basics

 

[LarryD]

In response to your original question, the OEM battery in my '03 33D frequently required cleaning of the positive terminal and there was nothing wrong with the charging system. The tractor gets used at least once a month and has no other charging device attached.
Here is the thread where I expressed my satisfaction with the Odyssey battery I installed. It has now been in use for 10 years and never fails to start the tractor. When it does go, there is no doubt what I will replace it with.

 

[dickfoster]

In response to your original question, the OEM battery in my '03 33D frequently required cleaning of the positive terminal and there was nothing wrong with the charging system. The tractor gets used at least once a month and has no other charging device attached.
Here is the thread where I expressed my satisfaction with the Odyssey battery I installed. It has now been in use for 10 years and never fails to start the tractor. When it does go, there is no doubt what I will replace it with.

Along those lines here is a video of how Odyssey batteries are made. I thought it was interesting for people into that sort of thing. It shows how they pack all of that energy into such a small space.

 

[Xfaxman]

Wow, that video is amazing. But not clear on how they put the acid in it after the top was put on.

It shows it being injected through the top, but doesn't mention how the air gets out or how the hole is sealed.

 

[John_Mc]

Thanks for the thread links. I'm leaning towards an AGM battery like the Odyssey.

The PC925L will fit (as LarryD has proven). My concern is the CCA rating. There seems to be some discrepancy in the rating for the Odyssey PC925. Most vendors on Amazon state it as 380 CCA (though the label on the battery in their pictures says 330). The Odyssey site says 330 CCA, so I'm inclined to believe the 330 number.

The stock New Holland battery in my tractor is 420CCA.

I might gamble 380, but I'm concerned that 330CCA is too low for the cold winters here, especially as the battery ages. The Optima D51 size battery might fit, and has 450CCA. I've got to do some more accurate measuring to make sure.

 

[LarryD]

Your comment prompted me to go look at my battery. As you can see, it states 380CCA. I wonder if there has been a change to the manufacturing process or just a downgrade in the advertised specs.

I did mount mine on it's back as that was the only way to clear the hood latch. It moved the terminals away from the radiator as well which made me more comfortable when blowing out the radiator with a long metal air nozzle. I suppose any "reversed" terminal battery would put the connection up front.

420CCA is the rating in the manual but I live in a temperate climate anything below 20º is rare. We did get a pretty good winter storm in '12 that remained in the mid 20's for about 10 days, had to move snow a couple times and the battery worked just fine.

 

[dickfoster]

Your comment prompted me to go look at my battery. As you can see, it states 380CCA. I wonder if there has been a change to the manufacturing process or just a downgrade in the advertised specs.

I did mount mine on it's back as that was the only way to clear the hood latch. It moved the terminals away from the radiator as well which made me more comfortable when blowing out the radiator with a long metal air nozzle. I suppose any "reversed" terminal battery would put the connection up front.

420CCA is the rating in the manual but I live in a temperate climate anything below 20ｺ is rare. We did get a pretty good winter storm in '12 that remained in the mid 20's for about 10 days, had to move snow a couple times and the battery worked just fine.
View attachment 465053

I wouldn't worry about an Odyssey and cold temps. They actually work better at low temps than standard wet cell types. They don't tout the CCA so much unless you do a bit of digging but they also rate theirs in 5 sec pulse current, it's part of the model number, They list short circuit current too which is useless info. It's enough to know that if I drop a wrench across my battery terminals it will likely vaporize. I have two PCL1200s in my truck so that's over 5000 short circuit amps available. You do not want to short and spark jumper leads together alike a lot of folks do with these types of batteries. The internal resistance is much less than a wet cell battery.

If you go on their web site they have all kinds of technical info, manuals etc. available.
http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-OM-012_1014.pdf

 

[Coyote machine]

Why not get an Interstate battey that fits your tractor and be done with it?
Yes, AGMs are excellent too, but I'm not clear as to why you need something special and expensive, here in VT?

I've had Interstate in all four of my Toyotas, four in my boat, at one time, now 2, (after doing away with the trolling motor). One each in my Kioti 40 HP diesel tractor, ATV, Scag ZT mower, one in my Husky 322 ride mower, one in my dr.mower/brush cutter, one in a dr. Weed mower, and one each in two generators, a 20kW, and a brand new 14kW.
BTW, my 20 kW Briggs genny ran 230 hours straight last winter, and sat through a 30 below zero cold snap this just past winter.
Phew, that's a LOT of batteries.

I was one of their dealers, years ago when I owned my foreign auto shop.

So, FWIW, I am certain you could power your tractor with one.
They're not ridiculously expensive, have marine type, as well as regular wet cell models, etc.:confused3:

 

[John_Mc]

Why not get an Interstate battery that fits your tractor and be done with it?
Yes, AGMs are excellent too, but I'm not clear as to why you need something special and expensive, here in VT?

My main reason is the corrosion issue. As noted in my original post, I've had the "cottage cheese" of corrosion build up on my positive battery terminal almost since it was new, and had to replace the lug on the end at least twice. I think there are other issues besides just corrosion of the battery & cable, since NH had a recall or service bulletin to replace some fittings or something on the hydraulic oil cooler which mounts on the front of the radiator - it seems corrosive fumes from the battery were destroying the fittings. A second reason is that AGM batteries hold their charge much longer, so If I don't have it hooked up to a maintainer during an extended period of disuse, I've got a better chance of getting it started.

I can get an Odyssey 925 for about $165 (or about $180 if I want the "metal jacket" option which lets it withstand higher temperatures). The concern there is the CCA rating since they seem to have dropped their spec from 380 to 330 for that. I can get a group 51 Optima Yellow top (450CCA) that is physically larger than the Odyssey, but will fit for $160. The Interstate MT-51 will fit, and lists for about $130. I haven't checked local prices yet, but see eBay sellers listing it at $101 (they won't ship). I've got nothing against Interstate batteries. Both our current vehicles use them, as did the vehicles we owned before them. I've used them in other tractors. I'm not sure that a flooded lead-acid battery is the best choice for this tractor, where the battery is mounted right up in front of the radiator.

In short, if an extra $30-$60 gets rid of the corroding battery cable, it's well worth it to me.

 

[Coyote machine]

Your logic makes sense, especially considering the NH tractor specific corrosion issues.

Would be great to figure out why your model suffers the corrosion problems. Sounds like a dissimilar metals creating a battery situation with the hydraulic cooler being the possible culprit. The NH bulletin may require fittings that isolate the cooler from the chassis/tractor frame, thus eliminating the galvanic action of dissimilar metals in contact with each other.

It's possible the wet battery may off gas some corrosive gasses during use, which could contribute to the 'acidic" mix present under the hood, near the radiator and battery. The perfect storm of metals and acid gas, so to speak. That's all I can think of what could be occurring....

 

[CobyRupert]

Interesting thread. I'm curious as to why some connections corrode and others don't.

Is it the battery post that is corroding/pitting or the cable lug? I assume the lug?

General question: When one coats the connections, do you do this AFTER the connection is made on all exposed part right? You don't coat the battery post and cable lug parts that contact each other right? Isn't the idea to coat the parts that contact air and corrode, not the parts that contact each other right?

I periodically give the connections a flush with baking soda and water if I see them corroding.

 

[Coyote machine]

Best to clean the battery posts with a battery post cleaning tool, then coat the bright metal of the cleaned post with petroleum jelly/Vaseline or similar. Then install the cable end over the post along with an anti corrosion soaked felt washer, and tighten the lug. Then clean off any remaining grease, and spray the post and lug with a battery spray of choice. Let dry. Start your engine, use at will. Do same where negative cable meets frame of tractor. Clean to bare shiny metal, repeat above, less felt washer. Done. Periodically inspect battery/ connections, AND lift caps on battery top to check electrolyte/water level. Top off water to split ring level, wearing glasses, until all cells are even with distilled water. Replace caps.

 

[buickanddeere]

Over filled battery

 

[Coyote machine]

Over filled battery

In relation to what?:confused2:

 

[Oldpath05]

""My main reason is the corrosion issue. As noted in my original post, I've had the "cottage cheese" of corrosion build up on my positive battery terminal almost since it was new, and had to replace the lug on the end at least twice."""

I don't get it Big Dan, never touch my battery since I bought the tractor in 07, it's all covered with dirt and dust, still cranks like new. No cottage here except in my wife's lasagna. I'm thinking that a new battery wont solve that problem, got to be something else going on. I suppose it could be a particle of pre-animate matter caught in the matrix.

 

[LarryD]

I can't comment on the "pre-animate matter caught in the matrix", I searched for a trail cam that might be able to detect one but it seems the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland has scooped all of them off E-Bay! :shocked:

As for the battery corrosion, I did all I could to prevent it on my '03 33D and nothing seemed to stop it. Clean/spray/connect/spray...everything short of encapsulating it in dielectric grease! Nothing appeared to help. This was the OEM battery so I can't say if it would off gas more than another brand but I can say since installing the Odyssey battery I have not touched the terminals. My unscientific guess is the "Sealed Lead Acid" battery was the solution. Maybe any SLA battery would produce the same results. Maybe moving the terminals several inches from the radiator was the answer, I just don't know. I do think 10 years on a battery is a grand thing!

As for the hydro cooler line problem, I purchased the NH hard line replacement parts. The problem seemed to be a very short pressure hose with a hard 90º bend in it. Restricted? When the issue was first discussed on the forum I looked at mine after a pretty good load on the tractor and it had swelled up like a ballpark frank. I didn't feel like blowing 9gl of hydraulic all over the engine compartment. The fix turned the soft connection into a straight line. Seemed to be basic engineering to me...but NH wasn't going to admit to an engineering latent defect, so no recall. $80 for the fix was less than two 5gl buckets of hydraulic fluid!

 

[John_Mc]

Your logic makes sense, especially considering the NH tractor specific corrosion issues.

Would be great to figure out why your model suffers the corrosion problems. Sounds like a dissimilar metals creating a battery situation with the hydraulic cooler being the possible culprit. The NH bulletin may require fittings that isolate the cooler from the chassis/tractor frame, thus eliminating the galvanic action of dissimilar metals in contact with each other.

It's possible the wet battery may off gas some corrosive gasses during use, which could contribute to the 'acidic" mix present under the hood, near the radiator and battery. The perfect storm of metals and acid gas, so to speak. That's all I can think of what could be occurring....

I don't think the oil cooler was a dissimilar metals thing, though that's an interesting possibility. I think they just used a part that was susceptible to corrosion in an area right smack above a battery that's getting cooked by the radiator. Couple that with a battery that may not be the best thing around (Original was an OEM, and I've got an OEM battery in there now.) That same part may have been fine if the battery wasn't having issues and sitting right under it?

 

[Oldpath05]

I can't comment on the "pre-animate matter caught in the matrix", I searched for a trail cam that might be able to detect one but it seems the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland has scooped all of them off E-Bay! :shocked:

As for the battery corrosion, I did all I could to prevent it on my '03 33D and nothing seemed to stop it. Clean/spray/connect/spray...everything short of encapsulating it in dielectric grease! Nothing appeared to help. This was the OEM battery so I can't say if it would off gas more than another brand but I can say since installing the Odyssey battery I have not touched the terminals. My unscientific guess is the "Sealed Lead Acid" battery was the solution. Maybe any SLA battery would produce the same results. Maybe moving the terminals several inches from the radiator was the answer, I just don't know. I do think 10 years on a battery is a grand thing!

Obviously not a Star Trek fan. This could happen to you if you don't take care of the pre-animate matter caught in the matrix, you'll get caught with your britches down and end up with cottage cheese on the battery's>>>>Star Trek II Wrath of Khan - Reliant Vs Enterprise; First Clash 1p - YouTube

Maybe you have something there about a sealed battery solving the cottage cheese problem, probably that's the kind of battery that's in my tractor, all's I got is dust and dirt on mine, but I thought sealed batterys been around for 20 years, they should be the only one's in tractors now.

 

[Coyote machine]

I don't think the oil cooler was a dissimilar metals thing, though that's an interesting possibility. I think they just used a part that was susceptible to corrosion in an area right smack above a battery that's getting cooked by the radiator. Couple that with a battery that may not be the best thing around (Original was an OEM, and I've got an OEM battery in there now.) That same part may have been fine if the battery wasn't having issues and sitting right under it?

Let's not overlook the radiator being cooled by the fan. Heat may be a contributing factor, I can't say without seeing the actual configuration under the hood. The oil cooler could easily be poorly located for maximum heat dissapation too. All combined your OEM batteries could be sitting in a very unfriendly environment for them to function normally. Heat is often the nail in the coffin for most wet cell type batteries. Too much heat could boil out the electrolyte, resulting in the gasses being present in significant quantity to cause the constant highly corrosive condition.
Do you have pics of the battery location and the cooler's location too?
If so, posting them might give a better picture of the conditions the battery lives in.
It may turn out your best option is to use a AGM type to treat the symptoms, vs. the cause. In your situation it would have the desired results, and the cause/effect would be rendered irrelevant.:confused3:

 

[Garandman]

We replace OEM batteries with AGM most of the time. Optima Red Top are light. Odyssey AGM are much heavier and store more. A Red Top for our van weighs 32 'bs. The Odyssey weighs 47.

Sears Duehard Platinum [only] are made by Odyssey. Whether it's worth the $$ once you fix the charging system is up to you. We use Battery Tender + charger on the tractor but Battery Tender Jr. On everything else: cheaper and longer cord. We have seven of them....