Bringing the draft back ???

Status
Not open for further replies.
   / Bringing the draft back ??? #81  
Hi
I a little confused which is normal for me. I thought National Guard was a force to protect the home land. are they going to call it the International Guard now? I don't think the National Guard should ever leave the USA. I thought all branches of services had a reserve force for those times they needed extra manpower.

Charlie.
 
   / Bringing the draft back ??? #82  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I thought National Guard was a force to protect the home land. are they going to call it the International Guard now? )</font>

It has never been that way. I don't know about WWI but in WWII there were National Guard units activated. The primary difference between the Guard and the reserve is the Guard is governed by the state and can be called to active duty by the Governor of it's state. It can also be called to active duty by the federal government. In my 15 years I have never been activated for federal service but I have been activated on the state level for hurricanes Opal and Danny. For some reason when you have bulldozers, backhoes, loaders, and dumptrucks, the Engineers always get the call.

Essayons!
 
   / Bringing the draft back ??? #83  
That's exactly how I remember it. There were two other alternatives to Vietnam. Instead of going to Canada, you could go to jail. Many accepted that fate. Or, you could hope for a sympathetic doctor at the draft exam. That's what happened to me. I had a mild case of asthma aggravated by cigarette smoking. Before my exam, I used all of my will power to not cough for about 12 hours. By the time I hit the exam, I had a slight wheeze. It was in Massachusetts, where few were sympathetic to the war. The doctor labeled me 4A, which meant that I would be called only in the case of a last resort.

There was a fiction that the draft was voluntary. When you were called, in Boston you reported to the Boston Naval Base (even though it was an army draft). You were lined up, and told to take one step forward. That step was symbolic of your volunteering. Every week, there was a significant number of draftees who took one step backwards. They were hustled off to jail. It became standard fare for the newspapers to send a photographer to the base to photograph the brave young men who stepped backwards rather than support a war that had nothing to do with the nation's security. I say "brave", because it took true guts to defy the drill sergeants, knowing you were off to jail.

This was about the same period when the Massachusetts Legislature passed a law stating it was illegal to send any resident of Massachusetts to Vietnam. Of course, that law was defeated in the Supreme Court rather quickly, but it was symbolic of an entire state which knew the war was wrong.

As things have turned out, they were right, as many of the national leaders from that time, like Robert McNamara, have declared that the war was a mistake.

While I was totally against the Vietnam war, I supported the troops. The war was not their fault. I certainly was not among those who shunned them, spit on them or called them baby killers. If I felt anything towards them, it was sorrow that they had been duped into fighting, dying and getting mutilated for a war that made no sense. 50,000 of those fine young people died, and for what?

Could history be repeating itself?

John Kerry was one of those who had the courage to lay his life on the line in vietnam because he initially believed his country needed him. Then, as he realized the war was a terrible mistake, he had the courage to come home and help found the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. To me, that makes him doubly courageous. It was his first flip-flop, and like all of them since, it was a result of his learning from his mistakes and growing in his knowledge. I much prefer a leader with the courage to admit his mistakes and change his course as necessary, as compared to a leader with blinders who cannot see that his course is to disaster.

The other day, I heard a learned student of history make the observation, "In 1919, when the British created the synthetic nation of Iraq consisting of disparate elements from the Sunnis and the Shiites, it took 3 years for the situation to become so bad that the Sunnis and Shiites banded into a united front to oust the British. It's possible that it will take much less time for the American invasion to reach the same point: Sunnis and Shiites banded together in their hatred for what the Americans are doing. All it will take is for the Americans to hand over the government to the wrong people on June 30."

Much too late, the administration has handed over the responsibility for finding a new Iraqi government to the United Nations. They have about 6 weeks to put it together. Asked by a reporter what is Plan B if they fail in those 6 weeks, a UN official replied, "We don't have time for a Plan B." But, the administration has vowed to stay the course, perhaps digging themselves a hole they can't climb out of. The chances of handing over to the wrong people are great.
 
   / Bringing the draft back ??? #84  
Brent, the Guard was different in the Vietnam era. Some units were activated and served with distinction, particularly the Iowa and Kansas units.

But, many units were seen as "safe". For example, if one had sufficient "pull", one could enroll in a Guard unit, be trained to fly an obsolete airplane, thus being totally useless in the war effort, and even take time off from Guard duties to run a political campaign.

Here's what Colin Powell had to say about the Guard in that era, in his memoirs:

<font color="blue">"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."

My American Journey (1995) p. 148
</font>
 
   / Bringing the draft back ??? #85  
Bigun-
Please be careful about what you say about the United States Coast Guard during the Vietnam period. It's very obvious that you DO NOT KNOW you are talking about!
Do you know who manned the Black Hulls? Do an Internet search on Coast+Guard+Vietnam!

A proud USCG Korean "Conflict" veteran.
 
   / Bringing the draft back ??? #86  
Ah, the coasties! You guys saved our skins several times in the early 80s off the coast of Washington state when our rickety little Korean War vintage minesweeper went dead in the water...which it did with annoying regularity! We'd put out a call to the Coast Guard, who would run to Radio Shack, then deliver whichever antique vacuum tube we needed to continue operations.

To their credit, the coasties never laughed at our plight! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Pete
 
   / Bringing the draft back ??? #87  
I agree with Don on this one. The Guard and Reserve servicemen and women I know today are head and shoulders above the reserves I knew while on active duty. Heck, my last ship was officially a naval reserve force ship, which meant we had 70% active duty with the remainder reservists who were supposed to show up one weekend a month. So we scheduled underway time for that weekend, only to have 90% of the reserve crew not show up. They would do a "makeup" the following weekend when the ship was comfortably in port near the PX. What that meant was the undermanned active crew had to bust butt to do all the things we really needed all hands for! It was brutal, exhausting work with many injuries caused by asking too few men to do far too much. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

When I hear "Reserve" today, I have to force myself to mentally change gears and acknowledge to myself that it's a completely different story now. So you youngsters, please bear in mind that we need to shift gears. While we might leave out the part about "now" vs "then," disparaging remarks about reservists are most definitely then!

Pete
 
   / Bringing the draft back ??? #88  
<font color="red">"The reasons given for going before we invaded have all turned out to be incorrect and misleading, if not outright lies." </font>

Don, that question has already been answered.
There was a mock hearing (wasting taxpayer's money) called the 911 Commission. Have we heard anything since it is over?
I guess they didn't find what they wanted to find!
The previous administration (Clinton's) did not fund intelligence gathering units properly. This carried over into the Bush administration. This includes Kerry's "NO" to funding vote.
As a result, intelligence was not what it COULD have been. As a result, the President acted on the intelligence at hand (obviously flawed) with Congressional approval.
That includes Kerry's "YES" vote for the action against Iraq.
 
   / Bringing the draft back ??? #89  
<font color="blue"> that question has already been answered.
There was a mock hearing (wasting taxpayer's money) called the 911 Commission. Have we heard anything since it is over?
I guess they didn't find what they wanted to find!
</font>

I'm somewhat hesitant to reply to this because I don't want it to seem like I'm picking on you. The bi-partisan 911 Commission (5 Republicans, 5 Democrats) has not finished it's work. More hearings are scheduled for May and June. The deadline for completing their report is July 26, 2004, but there is no guarantee the report will be released on that date.

Created by an act of the Republican controlled Congress with the bill signed by Republican George Bush, I'm somewhat surprised to hear you call it a "mock" commission, especially if it turns out you were right and it finds nothing to harm the administration. Think about it. If it finds nothing damaging, and it is a mock commission, then its findings are likely wrong, and there might be something damaging to the administration that a "real" commission could find, but a "mock" commission could not.
 
   / Bringing the draft back ??? #90  
I read a news report about Bill Clintons comments to the 9-11 commision. All it said was that he gave them advice on things to look at and how to compile the report. It really made it look like he was there as a consultant and not as a witness to testify.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2000 HEIL TRAILER INTERNATIONAL FUEL TRANSPORT TRAILER (A52472)
2000 HEIL TRAILER...
2008 Hino 268 Truck, VIN # 5PVNJ8JV582S51513 (A51572)
2008 Hino 268...
2000 FORD E350 CUTAWAY BOX TRUCK (A52577)
2000 FORD E350...
2015 SkyJack SJ86T 4x4 86ft Telescopic Boom Lift (A52377)
2015 SkyJack SJ86T...
2019 TEREX PHOENIX 2100 TROMMEL SCREEN (A53426)
2019 TEREX PHOENIX...
2016 Chevrolet Tahoe SUV (A51694)
2016 Chevrolet...
 
Top