Brother n' law says off road diesel is bad

[RobJ]

There may still be some dyed after 2012, for non tax diesel. The red diesel we sell runs tugs, diesels on barges, some trucks and construction equipment. Also I believe WE collect the taxes and pay the gov when the time comes. Folks buying off road diesel must have all their paperwork in order or I know the tax man will come back to us for not making sure.

Talking with some of our engineers and marketers yesterday we will eventually install the hydro something to convert it to low sulphur. One to sell the product and another because the investment will be quickly recooped because we can sell on road diesel.

As promised here are a couple pics of the magical red dye injection unit. The number on the tank is just our tank number. Behind the dye tank there is another tank marked pour point improver. I guess it's a mixture. You can see in the first pic why everyone loves to work on the dye tank. We recently had some problems and they had to replace some valves. It's nasty.

 

[gemini5362]

I am curious about things in other parts of the country. When you buy off road diesel at a service station do they charge you sales tax for it. When I buy it locally I pay the 10 per cent sales tax on the off road diesel just like I was making a non fuel purchase

 

[cp1969]

I am curious about things in other parts of the country. When you buy off road diesel at a service station do they charge you sales tax for it. When I buy it locally I pay the 10 per cent sales tax on the off road diesel just like I was making a non fuel purchase

No, not in Kansas, unless it is already built in to the price shown on the off-road pump.

 

[krackerjack9]

Over here we run everything on JP-8 only problems that have come up is the fuel pumps fail at about 25,000 to 33,000hrs. So the cure is add 2 gallons of transmission fluid to ever 500 gallons of JP-8. If your have problems with stuff getting clogged in your filters I seriously doubt it has anything to do with Dyed fuel but more in the storage of the fuel. Believe it or not there is a bacteria or fungus what ever you want to call it that dose grow in tanks. This is 99% of the problem in most cases. Once its present in a tank generally your large storage tanks 50k and above its always going to be there.

 

[LBrown59]

LBrown59,
You are missing their point. The dealer is buying 2 different products, priced differently, BEFORE taxes. If the dealer is paying less for On Road than Off Road, then when he adds the tax for On Road it is only slightly more than the Off Road price. In that case the consumer will not see a price difference equal to the tax difference.
The dealer is not getting volume discounts for Off Raod since he sells so little of it. Pays more for the product but doesn't add tax so it still equals a slightly better deal for the consumer. If you have a dealer who sells a lot of Off Road, then you will see a greater difference in price.

The only difference here is it's the same stuff in 2 colors.
In reality off road is just on road that has been dyed red.
A more accurate terminology would be taxed or non taxed rather than on or off road.
On road and off road describes where it's used not what it is.
In this case the dealer is not buying 2 different products.
As to volume it's the same whether red or not.
If dealer A sells 100,000 gallons of non dyed and 25,000 gallons of red his volume is still 125,000 gallons no matter how much of it is red or how much of it is not red.
On the other hand if dealer B sells 110,000 gallons of non died and none of the red stuff his volume is 15,000 gallons less than dealer A.
The point I'm trying to get across here is the color of the fuel has nothing to with the dealers/sellers cost of the fuel here in my area.
Taxes aren't a part of the selling price as that's determined before taxes and because taxes do not go to the seller.
I'm not totally disagreeing with your post-Just trying to Show that there are other ways to look at it.
I'm also in agreement with others who've stated the seller has the right to set his prices as he sees fit.
However this does not extend to manipulation or decption to over charge above the established selling price in cases where there is no taX.
IF you were buying a new car and the Price was $20000 and the Sales tax was $1500 that would be $21500 out of pocket.
Now if the sale was tax exempt what would you expect to shell out
$21000 or $20000?
== L B ==

 

[escavader]

I use to use offroad.THere are two reasons i stopped.
1] Even though the price is 10-to 20 cents different at the pump,if you cant produce a tax number to make you tax exempt ,you get 6% sales tax added when you pay.
2] Not a big seller in my area.Not alot of farmers etc that will go buy it from a pump.If they own a larger farm they have their own tank.I think it sits forever in the fuel tanks at the 1 or 2 stations within 30 miles that carry it.As alot of you know,i had magor water problems in fuel in the past.My diesal mechanic friend,reccomended getting it from the local truckstop,where they turn over a large volumn of fuel[non offroad] Havent had a problem since
Im the little guy here who dont use alot.If i did id probably have a tax number,and my own tank.Other wise it makes no sense for my own use.
ALAN

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The only difference here is it's the same stuff in 2 colors.
In reality off road is just on road that has been dyed red.
A more accurate terminology would be taxed or non taxed rather than on or off road.
On road and off road describes where it's used not what it is.
In this case the dealer is not buying 2 different products.
As to volume it's the same whether red or not.
If dealer A sells 100,000 gallons of non dyed and 25,000 gallons of red his volume is still 125,000 gallons no matter how much of it is red or how much of it is not red.
On the other hand if dealer B sells 110,000 gallons of non died and none of the red stuff his volume is 15,000 gallons less than dealer A.
The point I'm trying to get across here is the color of the fuel has nothing to with the dealers/sellers cost of the fuel here in my area.
Taxes aren't a part of the selling price as that's determined before taxes and because taxes do not go to the seller.
I'm not totally disagreeing with your post-Just trying to Show that there are other ways to look at it.
I'm also in agreement with others who've stated the seller has the right to set his prices as he sees fit.
However this does not extend to manipulation or decption to over charge above the established selling price in cases where there is no taX.
IF you were buying a new car and the Price was $20000 and the Sales tax was $1500 that would be $21500 out of pocket.
Now if the sale was tax exempt what would you expect to shell out
$21000 or $20000?
== L B ==

IF....If that fuel ALL came from the same tank, and was dyed as it was delivered to the end user, your logic would have some merit. HOWEVER, it's two different products, delivered to the vendor in varying quantities, all the while having different "per gallon" storage and handling cost.

"While it's all "diesel fuel", the two AREN'T the same. If true cost to the point of delivery was the same, it would be purely coincedental. No REASONABLE businessman could possibly expect two different commodities, sold in different volumes to have the same exact cost per gallon at the time it is delivered to the end user."

And that explaination (paragraph 2) is near word for word from a fuel wholesaler where I buy off road fuel for my mowing business. I'd expect he knows the business better than you or I.

 

[DUMBDOG]

The only difference here is it's the same stuff in 2 colors.
In reality off road is just on road that has been dyed red.
A more accurate terminology would be taxed or non taxed rather than on or off road.
On road and off road describes where it's used not what it is.
In this case the dealer is not buying 2 different products.
As to volume it's the same whether red or not.
If dealer A sells 100,000 gallons of non dyed and 25,000 gallons of red his volume is still 125,000 gallons no matter how much of it is red or how much of it is not red.
On the other hand if dealer B sells 110,000 gallons of non died and none of the red stuff his volume is 15,000 gallons less than dealer A.
The point I'm trying to get across here is the color of the fuel has nothing to with the dealers/sellers cost of the fuel here in my area.
Taxes aren't a part of the selling price as that's determined before taxes and because taxes do not go to the seller.
I'm not totally disagreeing with your post-Just trying to Show that there are other ways to look at it.
I'm also in agreement with others who've stated the seller has the right to set his prices as he sees fit.
However this does not extend to manipulation or decption to over charge above the established selling price in cases where there is no taX.
IF you were buying a new car and the Price was $20000 and the Sales tax was $1500 that would be $21500 out of pocket.
Now if the sale was tax exempt what would you expect to shell out
$21000 or $20000?
== L B ==

The reality of the situation is that the dealer has to have two tanks in the ground for the two types of fuel. He also has to have two different pumps to dispense the fuel. If the dealer has to recover X amount of dollars over a given period of time to pay for the fixed costs of the system, the amount that has to be added to the fuel with the lower amount of gallons will be greater. This is business 101. The price is not due to one being taxes and the other not, it is due to the lower volume of one product compared to the other.

 

[MikePA]

The point I'm trying to get across here is the color of the fuel has nothing to with the dealers/sellers cost of the fuel here in my area.

The cost of the fuel is only a part of the overall cost to the retailer. As Dumbdog said, this is Business 101.

However this does not extend to manipulation or decption to over charge above the established selling price in cases where there is no taX.

Who in this thread said a retailer is being manipulative or deceptive? And exactly what is 'the established selling price'?

You appear to believe that if a retailer is selling on road fuel for $1.20/gallon which includes 20 cents tax, then they should sell off road fuel, which is not taxed, at $1.00/gallon. If they don't, then they are being manipulative and deceptive. True?

 

[LBrown59]

The reality of the situation is that the dealer has to have two tanks in the ground for the two types of fuel. He also has to have two different pumps to dispense the fuel. .

How many tanks and pumps does he have to have for gasoline?