Comparison BX models vs. the small B choices.

[ultrarunner]

Brother started looking at a BX like mine and then a B... told him he needed to think bigger... especially larger tires for his terrain and found a L that was just too good to pass up...

 

[Grandad4]

Maybe that dealer was confused. You do have to take the 3 point links off - a trivial task - but the backhoe mounting frame stays on the tractor and doesn't interfere with anything on the 3 point or a belly mower when the backhoe is detached. The one exception is if you want a FRONT pto driven implement like a snowblowerthat uses the mid pto since it also requires its own subframe. Good luck with that other dealer!

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

I have looked at all the difference in the BX and the B2601 tractors and I have just stated what the dealer told me. Now I don't know if he just needed to sell more Bx's over the B2601 tractors but I would think they would know what was what. I am going by another dealer tomorrow and I am going to ask the question again to see. I looked at Poopdeck Pappy's tractors corporations and it doesn't say anything about the extra frame for the backhoe nor does it say anything about the backhoe it just talks about belly mowers, tillers, and such things that would hook up to the three point hitch which by the way you can't use if the backhoe is attached to the tractor. Removal is a must to use the three point hitch. I am just saying if this is true about the frame for the backhoe it would be no use for me as I detach my backhoe off the BX22 quite often and if I have to unbolt a frame the B2601 would be of no use to me. As I said I am going to a different dealer tomorrow and ask the question again to see if I get the same answer and maybe they will have one there to look at. I'll let you guys know what I find out.

You didn't look at the "backhoe" tab on the link I gave you. If you click on that tab, you will see that the language I quoted is right there and they are talking about the backhoe. I'm not sure how much clearer they could state it. The backhoe for the B2301/B2601 uses a 4-point quick attach system. You do NOT have to remove the subframe to use the 3 point hitch.

 

[ProjectKing]

My friend had a BX and said he would never trade. Loved it!

I got him to look at B2620's. He bought one and sold the BX immediately! He says the B2620 is better in every way than the BX.

 

[ultrarunner]

I've currently own 3 backhoes...

BX23
Deere 110
L3800

Of the three, the last one to go would be the BX23

Never tried the b2620 or know anyone with one.

I'm thinking the 3 range hydro is the big difference?

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I traded a BX25 to a B2620 FEL BH and later traded the B2620 FEL BH to a BX25D-1. The first BX25 was a great machine and the B2620 was a great stronger 3 sp bit heavier and bit more ground clearance machine. The new BX25D-1 makes me wish I had the B2620 FEL BH back due to the changed side for brake pedal and mostly because of the not having dynamic braking. Hate it when it keeps rolling after letting off the go pedal, especially with a front bucket full of gravel coming down hill close to my building where I plan to dump it without running into the building or when loading a plow into a mans new pickup truck and need to inch into the right position.
If I could wave a magic wand or knew that the not stopping when go pedal was released would not be fixed since it is wrong/defect/bad issue I would get my B2620 back and leave this BX25D-1 at the dealer. :2cents:
I've bought around 20 Kubotas in the last 12 years (yes, was a loyal Kubota buyer) and would not recommend anyone buy a BX25D-1 unless Kubota fixes the dynamic braking issue/problem/design.

 

[AxleHub]

I traded a BX25 to a B2620 FEL BH and later traded the B2620 FEL BH to a BX25D-1. The first BX25 was a great machine and the B2620 was a great stronger 3 sp bit heavier and bit more ground clearance machine. The new BX25D-1 makes me wish I had the B2620 FEL BH back due to the changed side for brake pedal and mostly because of the not having dynamic braking. Hate it when it keeps rolling after letting off the go pedal, especially with a front bucket full of gravel coming down hill close to my building where I plan to dump it without running into the building or when loading a plow into a mans new pickup truck and need to inch into the right position.
If I could wave a magic wand or knew that the not stopping when go pedal was released would not be fixed since it is wrong/defect/bad issue I would get my B2620 back and leave this BX25D-1 at the dealer. :2cents:
I've bought around 20 Kubotas in the last 12 years (yes, was a loyal Kubota buyer) and would not recommend anyone buy a BX25D-1 unless Kubota fixes the dynamic braking issue/problem/design.

Greetings johnthomas.

1. Does that "free float" when hydro pedal is released show up right away on new units (like at test drive) . . or is it develop as the hours develop?

2. Regardless how much someone is a Kubota fan . . I can't imagine having a unit like that. On my property even an empty fel would be a downhill disaster because brakes are only rear axle and 2wd or 4wd coasting would be unmanageable. How long has this problem existed . . 2 years??

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Greetings johnthomas.

1. Does that "free float" when hydro pedal is released show up right away on new units (like at test drive) . . or is it develop as the hours develop?

2. Regardless how much someone is a Kubota fan . . I can't imagine having a unit like that. On my property even an empty fel would be a downhill disaster because brakes are only rear axle and 2wd or 4wd coasting would be unmanageable. How long has this problem existed . . 2 years??

I've had this BX25D-1 less than a year. I didn't use it for several weeks after I bought it and never do test drives or haven't until now on new Kubota tractor purchases. I will from now on before accepting. I thought it did it when I was moving it but thought I was confused and parked it. Later, weeks, I sold a 2 bottom plow to a man that came by in his new pickup to pick up the plow. As I was nearing his truck I discovered the BX didn't stop when I released the go pedal and frantically started searching for the moved brake pedal. Didn't hit his truck but moved back and set plow on the ground and three of us picked it up and put it in his truck bed.
I took the BX25D-1 to Barlows for fixing this issue/defect/problem which is about 1 mile from my rental property where I usually kept the tractor stored. I let off the go pedal about 40 feet from the red light in high gear and high speed and it coasted all the way to the red light and I eventually pressed the brake pedal to stop it. After a few days I returned to pick up the BX25D-1 (Other members on TBN forum admitted theirs was also doing this). There is a slight decline on Barlows lot and I got on tractor, went toward the decline and at a mid point released the go pedal and it slowed down but coasted on down to the bottom of the decline. Told them it wasn't fixed and left it for another fix. Came back a few days later and did my test again and it did slightly better and master mechanic was there and told me he adjusted the ??? to the max. I drove it back to my storage building. I tried some of their other BX25D-1s and they do the same thing and they all admitted they do it but no one would ever say it was wrong. I guess I expressed myself clearly that I had owned almost every model of BX and B they had sold and all that were HST did NOT coats after pedal released and got no reply. I'll live with it and told Steve I would and that I will be dissatisfied with it's problem as long as I own it. It's a defect or major bad engineering.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Let me add. It does slow down when the go pedal is released, it just doesn't stop. I go down a gravel drive way loaded and unloaded and of course keep it in 4wd now that I know better than leaving it in 2wd from experience. It will slow down and keep going at a very slow rate but not stop completely ever going down hill and I guess gravity will stop it when I let off going slow on level pavement but it still coasts some which is to far when doing close work and not knowing where it will stop without using the brake. A first time buyer will probably never complain since they don't know it is not supposed to work this way, like the BXxx50 series with the abrupt stop in reverse. I'd owned several BXs and Bs when I bought the BX2350 so I knew it was "wrong" and got compensated $500 because of it. A person having owned a HST tractor before will know this BX25D-1 is "wrong" but most people go with the flow or think it's them or just their machine and won't complain.

 

[AxleHub]

Let me add. It does slow down when the go pedal is released, it just doesn't stop. I go down a gravel drive way loaded and unloaded and of course keep it in 4wd now that I know better than leaving it in 2wd from experience. It will slow down and keep going at a very slow rate but not stop completely ever going down hill and I guess gravity will stop it when I let off going slow on level pavement but it still coasts some which is to far when doing close work and not knowing where it will stop without using the brake. A first time buyer will probably never complain since they don't know it is not supposed to work this way, like the BXxx50 series with the abrupt stop in reverse. I'd owned several BXs and Bs when I bought the BX2350 so I knew it was "wrong" and got compensated $500 because of it. A person having owned a HST tractor before will know this BX25D-1 is "wrong" but most people go with the flow or think it's them or just their machine and won't complain.

Greetings Johnthomas,

I think you're being too charitable to Kubota. I see "free coasting" as a real liability for injury or damage. Here's why:

1. The vast majority of riding lawnmowers today (lawn tractors, garden tractors, zero turns) are HST. And of course sub compacts are HST . . so the idea new bx25 owners may not notice if they are 1st time tractor buyers . . won't match their lawnmower experiences for hst.

2. Modest 10 degree and steeper 15 and 20 degree slopes are very common in urban areas and municipal rural areas today. The development I'm in is 90% property owners with such slopes.

3. The current buying base of tractors on a national basis is heavily percentaged to scut and smaller compact tractors.

4. So you add up 1, 2, and 3 and you have large quantities of buyers familiar with HST operation buying scuts to be used on properties with significant slopes on lawns and driveways and open land.

But the rub is . . . brakes are a rear axle item. So going down slopes in 2wd or 4wd depend on their HST drives to provide braking and speed control . . . especially on either damp or fel/blower/plow equipped situations.

In effect . . Bx25 owners are without braking ablity on slope angles fully approved for their operations. I think thats trouble . . big trouble. You had yours repaired twice and it still does something it is not supposed to do. In my case had I gotten a bx25 new this year . . I couldn't use it on most of my property.

Kubota better get a recall going before the personal injury lawsuits start flying. They can't claim they didn't know about this, and the slope angles involved are all fully and completely approved levels of pitch by kubota. Tip overs, injuries, crushed bodies and damaged tractors and damaged/destroyed personal property etc. are all obviously potentials.

Kubota has always been smart on customer issues . . but they are asleep at the switch on this. GM is just finding out what that means (900 million & 2.5 billion & up to a possible 4.5 billion more). Now Bx25s in this last year or two aren't millions of units like GM . . but my example is to show neither the govermnment or classaction attorneys are going to be charitable as you are if Kubota doesn't jump on this. It will cost kubota in lost sales, lost resale value, and legal results . . . all on their most popular product.

Just my opinion.

And lest a reader think I'm overstating it . . just tell your wife the sitution and see how they react. If my wife heard the story . . she'd be very direct . . they fix it or our money back or we call an attorney . . no ifs ands or buts. And why will wives want results luke that? Because they've been reading all the articles about death and injury to those driving tractors and whether they tell us or not . . they want us around longer and they know what we sometimes don't . . . we aren't invincible.

Unlike a sudden stopping problem in reverse etc.. this is a problem that is far more serious and fixable. Every other brand and model has working HST units. Kubota better get their BX25d s fixed before the injury/death toll starts to mount.

 

[BXpanded]

John, did you not have a BX25 that you really liked? Seems I remember your saying it was your favorite tractor of all...
The BX25D-1 should behave that same as it has the same parts... According to the parts manuals, same transmission, linkage damper, etc. If you have a problem, I suspect you might have a defective part.

I have both a BX24 (50 Series) and a BX25D (70 Series). The 25D is here at the shop, the 24 is at home. I have no problem with either of the machines. I actually prefer the sudden stop of the 24 for some of the hazardous areas at my home. I find both machines remarkably handy and easy to use. I would not want to do without either.

John will correct me if I'm wrong, but based on his earlier comments in lots of different threads, I think John's problem with the "roll-on" manifested itself when he was moving very slowly and released the pedal to stop. The tractor continued to roll slowly forward causing him to desperately try to hit the brake, which on the 25D is on the opposite side than it was on his previous tractors. Not finding the brake would have been extremely disconcerting. It was not a case of the tractor continuing forward at a break-neck speed. My 25D exhibited the same characteristic for the first few hours. A tap on the rear pedal to center the HST was all that was required to stop the machine. No brake is required, but that works too. After some few hours, the machine now stops smoothly and reliably with no tendency to creep.

The BXs are equipped with hydraulic damper that works like a cars shock absorber to slow the pedal"s return to the centered, stop position. The 50 Series that John hated so much, had a single action damper that worked only on the forward side. It stopped smoothly when the forward pedal was released but rather quickly when the reverse pedal was released (since the reverse side had no damper). The later 60 and 70 series machines incorporated a different linkage and a 2 way damper to also slow the reverse return. I suspect that this more complicated linkage creates more friction and slows the return until some break-in. At least that seems to have been the case with mine. Perhaps John's tractor has a particularly stiff damper that should be replaced or some other mechanical problem. I have no problem with ether of the machines, and actually prefer the sudden stop for some of the hazardous areas at my home.

At any rate, the machines don't go flying down hills. At worst, when you release the forward pedal, the machine slows to a very slow crawl. Braking with the HST is the same as with the brake pedal. It works on only the rear wheels if the tractor is in 2wd. It works on the front and rear wheels only when 4wd is engaged. The brakes simply stop a shaft in the transmission. Moving the HST pedal to he center position does the same. If the machine is rolling faster than you want, just tap the reverse pedal. Just be ready for the tire squeal.

I think "before the injury/death toll starts to mount" is a bit alarmist. My wife has very little tractor experience, but can handle either of the tractors with no difficulty.

 

[s219]

I thought we covered this on another thread -- JT, you can disconnect the damper and it will likely eliminate the problem. But then it will seem to abrupt. Really, the damper needs some tweaking or adjusting, I think.

 

[AxleHub]

John, did you not have a BX25 that you really liked?

Curious Bxpanded. You just spent 5 paragraphs trying to "soften" a real situation Kubota has. I've already talked to a couple more who report similar to what John Thomas did. Apparently the problem is real and not imagined by anyone. The first GM keylock complaints were also labelled alarmists.

I've "got no dog in the hunt" on this . . but others sure do.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

John, did you not have a BX25 that you really liked? Seems I remember your saying it was your favorite tractor of all...I did, I did for a fact
The BX25D-1 should behave that sameI agree, I agree totally and all HSTs should react the same and I've had several and this is the only one that does this not stop when the go pedal is released as it has the same parts... According to the parts manuals, same transmission, linkage damper, etc. If you have a problem, I suspect you might have a defective part. Barlows and Barlows master mechanic doesn't seem to think so or all BX25D-1s have the same defective part which is my point. It's defective and Kubota won't admit it

I have both a BX24 (50 Series) and a BX25D (70 Series). The 25D is here at the shop, the 24 is at home. I have no problem with either of the machines. I actually prefer the sudden stop of the 24 for some of the hazardous areas at my home.( I was not using my BX2350 for hazardous areas where I wanted neck snapping abrupt stop in reverse, I was using mine exclusively for mowing at the time which required lots of back and forth which was horrible especially knowing that no other HST I'd owned reacted this way and why just do it on one machine model, the BXxx50 series after not doing whatever on the previous series or the later series I find both machines remarkably handy and easy to use. I would not want to do without either. I like having multiple machines also and all of the ones I currently own are HSTs and should all react the same. My RTV will throw me thru the windshield if I let off quick but can be let off slow and come to a smooth stop which the BXxx50 would not do

John will correct me if I'm wrong, but based on his earlier comments in lots of different threads, I think John's problem with the "roll-on" manifested itself when he was moving very slowly and released the pedal to stop. The tractor continued to roll slowly forward And I never thought a lot about it since I was just moving it into my garage but when I used it for a critical load on someone elses truck and it kept rolling slowly forward after the pedal was releasedcausing him to desperately try to hit the brake, which on the 25D is on the opposite side than it was on his previous tractors. Not finding the brake would have been extremely disconcerting. It was for the second or two until I tapped the HST pedal into reverse, since I've been using HST tractors for years I knew to do thisIt was not a case of the tractor continuing forward at a break-neck speed.It was not because I was not approaching the side of the truck at break neck speed, was actually creeping forward very slowly My 25D exhibited the same characteristic for the first few hours. A tap on the rear pedal to center the HST was all that was required to stop the machine. No brake is required, but that works too. After some few hours, the machine now stops smoothly and reliably with no tendency to creep.

[/So your saying you BX25D will dead stop on a down hill run and not keep on slowly rolling when you release the brake pedal in the same distance as your BX24?B]

 

[check]

Wait, Harry. Do you have the BX25D or the Bx25D-1? And aren't they from different uears? Maybe that explains the difference between the performance of your BX and that of Johnthomas?

 

[Ricn]

Having looked at the BX 2370 yesterday and thinking how nice it was to sit on, I'll be watching this thread closely. Should have driven that one perhaps but the dealer here is on flat ground, no hills, however my acreage has many hills and some sleep ones to boot. Is this rolling issue on other Kub tractors as well, or just the 25-D or is it the 25D-1? How about the BX2370 units? are they not the 25D but without the backhoe? I feel Johns concern as I am too old now to be rolling down hill!

Ricn

 

[BXpanded]

Wait, Harry. Do you have the BX25D or the Bx25D-1? And aren't they from different uears? Maybe that explains the difference between the performance of your BX and that of Johnthomas?

I have the BX25D. The parts manual shows no changes in the functional parts (linkage, damper, transmission) from the D to the D-1. They should behave the same. Actually, it should behave the same as the BX25 as the parts listing shows it to have the same damper as well.

To answer John's question, "will it come to a complete stop going down hill? Neither the BX24 nor the D will come to a COMPLETE Stop. Both will come to a near stop, but will continue to roll slowly down the steep hill unless you touch the rear pedal. Interestingly enough, my 1972 (43 years old) International Harvester Cub Cadet with hydrostatic trans behaves the same way when moved to the neutral position. I'm curious if later model HST lawn tractors do the same??? Just head down a hill and let off the pedal... Does it come to a complete stop? I haven't driven one of the late mowers so I'm curious now.

On flat pavement, from full speed in high range, full throttle, the D comes to a complete stop in just about the length of the tractor when the pedal is released. The BX24 is similar. I tested the BX24 last evening and the BX25D this morning. I think at least some readers are getting the impression that the tractor continues to fly along at the breath-taking 8 mph top speed. The BX24 has no damper on the reverse pedal and can stop very quickly in reverse if not operated judiciously. It feels no different in forward.

As I've said before, I had a slow speed experience similar to John's. While moving the machine in a very tight spot, doing some precise positioning, the tractor crept forward a few inches before I got it stopped. This happened when the machine was near 0 hours. After a few hours of use, it never happened again and now stops reliably.

John, is yours behaving differently than mine?

 

[AxleHub]

I have the BX25D. The parts manual shows no changes in the functional parts (linkage, damper, transmission) from the D to the D-1. They should behave the same. Actually, it should behave the same as the BX25 as the parts listing shows it to have the same damper as well.

To answer John's question, "will it come to a complete stop going down hill? Neither the BX24 nor the D will come to a COMPLETE Stop. Both will come to a near stop, but will continue to roll slowly down the steep hill unless you touch the rear pedal. Interestingly enough, my 1972 (43 years old) International Harvester Cub Cadet with hydrostatic trans behaves the same way when moved to the neutral position. I'm curious if later model HST lawn tractors do the same??? Just head down a hill and let off the pedal... Does it come to a complete stop? I haven't driven one of the late mowers so I'm curious now.

On flat pavement, from full speed in high range, full throttle, the D comes to a complete stop in just about the length of the tractor when the pedal is released. The BX24 is similar. I tested the BX24 last evening and the BX25D this morning. I think at least some readers are getting the impression that the tractor continues to fly along at the breath-taking 8 mph top speed. The BX24 has no damper on the reverse pedal and can stop very quickly in reverse if not operated judiciously. It feels no different in forward.

As I've said before, I had a slow speed experience similar to John's. While moving the machine in a very tight spot, doing some precise positioning, the tractor crept forward a few inches before I got it stopped. This happened when the machine was near 0 hours. After a few hours of use, it never happened again and now stops reliably.

John, is yours behaving differently than mine?

I have personally never driven a quality brand product with HST that would not come to a complete stop on a normal steep downhill slope. That includes cub cadet mowers and sc2400, kubota units I've test driven (gr2120, bx1870-1 and bx2370), and Massey gc 1705 and gc 1715.

Bxpanded . . you seem hung up on the parts side of things . . And yet the units in the newer BX25D units are not behaving like the prior ones EVEN after servicing.

This is a problem that if I owned one would force me not to be able to use it on any of my hills and slopes. It would put me in physical jeopardy as well as any personal property.

I'll repeat my prior statement: whether a driver is in 2wd or 4wd going down an APPROVED (by Kubota) slope angle, the potential to have NO braking capability is large and extremely dangerous. And it is not because of operator error (if in 4wd) . . it is because the hst in the newer Kubota bx25d is not able to do what all other hst units do (including past Kubota product).

Now you can talk about parts diagrams all you want . . but if Kubota has such a serious problem and the dealers can't adjust it after multiple attempts . . then it needs to be recalled before bodies or property are harmed.

Whethet this problem exists in the newer bx2370-1 and bx2670-1 I can't say. But ever hst needs to be able to offer braking and speed control on apprived slope angles in 4wd. Its not an option . . Its a must.

 

[s219]

It's not really the HST, it's most certainly the damper on the pedal. You could test this theory by manually moving the pedal back to center with your foot. If the tractor then comes to a stop, it means the damper is too slow. Can't remember if I said this in any of the other threads, but I have experienced a slow/stuck damper linkage (due to needing lube) on a B model, and it exhibited the same problem people are reporting on the BX now. I don't think the BX has a stuck damper linkage, but rather that the dampers are not sized right, or maybe the return spring is not strong enough for the dampers. All of this is easy to troubleshoot with your foot. With all the smart people here on TBN, I'm sure people could figure out a fix regardless of how you feel about Kubota. I know if it were me and Kubota wasn't able to fix it, I'd get right on it.

 

[ultrarunner]

My BX has a grease fitting under the mat for the pedal...

Helped out a guy with a sticking pedal... he said he never greased it because he didn't realize it was there.