Can I legally tow a 20,000 lb. trailer with my F-450?

[yellowdogsvc]

. The GVWR is used to establish a guideline as to what vehicles require a CDL.
QUOTE]

It's not uncommom to see a new f350 (GVWR of 13k lbs) towing a 20k lb. gooseneck trailer. These truck and trailer combo would be 33k lb (rated) yet I never see DOT numbers and when I ask the driver's they tell me they don't need a Class A cdl yet TX Dept. of Public Safety says they do indeed.
I guess it depends on who is going to enforce the rules. It frustrates me because I follow the rules while my competitors do not (which means I pay more for insurance than they do).

 

[sandman2234]

Yellowdog,
I can understand your frustration. Also look at what we as truckdrivers have to put up with since they make it clear as mud!!
Another one that I see constantly ignored is people pulling travel trailers (usually 5th wheel types) behind p/u trucks, and mounting a ball on the rear bumper so they can pull their boat on a trailer behind that. In the state of Florida, I can not legally do that, and I DO have doubles and triples on my CDL. The only time doubles/triples are allowed is with a CMV in this state. I have a friend who pulls new horse trailers and he calls me from the Ga line to come get a trailer, or he drops one up there, and returns to get it after dropping the first at it's destination. Either it is allowed in Ga, Tn, Al, Ar, Ok or just ignored because he does it regularly. Several hundred dollars fine if he gets caught in Florida, or a $1000 if he gets caught running around the scales. A phone call is cheaper...
David from jax

 

[john_bud]

Many states are now cracking down hard on commercial vehicles that weigh 10,001 pounds or more. FEDERAL regs list that weight as the cut off for the requirement of a USDOT number. It's a major pain, but the ticket for not having it (and the supporting USDOT mandated stuff) is big time. Neighbor was shown the $1300 ticket, but given 1 week to get numbers, logs, insurance and all that stuff. He chose door #2 and got legal.



jb

 

[jfh0jfh]

In ohio here is how it was explained to me. My truck is a 5500 GMC with a gvw rating of 19000. Unloaded weight is 8700. My trailer is rated at 14000, empty it weights 2500. I have used F350 and simular hd pickups over the years and they just do not provide enough braking abililty, even with bakes on all 4 wheels on trailer. My little dozer weighs 10,000, fully loaded, truck 8700 trailer 2500 dozer 10000. a total of 19,500lbs. I went through a weigh check point (dozer was not on trailer). My combined weight was 95000 across the scale. They pulled me in and give me a tilcket which cost $150. He said my truck was rated at 19000 and my trailer was rated at 14000 which could put me over CDL if fully loaded. My truck would not pull 33000 lbs I tried to explain and would be right back where I started from a truck with not enough braking ability, making it unsafe in a sudden stop. He could care less about safety. I didnt have a cdl so he made me unhook my trailer and leave it. I went home and got my little Ford ranger, and it just fried his but when I showed up to get my trailer. Totaly legal (but not safe) . No wonder truckers hate the puco. You cannot reason with them.

I'm S of you, by Somerset. I was stopped recently w/ a 1T dually diesel and a 24000 GVW gooseneck. I was empty but, following your guy's logic that potential counts, I was over. He walked up, saw the non-commercial plate, said "Is this a commercial truck?" I said it just belonged to a friend w/ a small farm. He looked at my license & reg, told me to fix a taillight, mentioned the lack of rain, asked if I was running farm fuel, laughed and said "Have a good day."

I infer from this - and two simlar incidents, one in MI w/ a commercial-carrier guy - that the rules don't apply to non-commecial trucks. Correct? This was a cop, not ODOT commercial carrier enforcement.

 

[sandman2234]

I have had my tanks dipped at weigh stations on several occasions, and have always wondered what they would do if they found dye. On the other hand, a real farm vehicle, that usually stays on the farm, if used to go to town once every six months and you actually put taxed fuel in it in town, and had the receipt would still show large trace of dye. What would they do in this case, and what are the rules?
David from jax

 

[jmfox]

I infer from this - and two simlar incidents, one in MI w/ a commercial-carrier guy - that the rules don't apply to non-commecial trucks. Correct?

I think you took a big leap in reason. Most likely you got a break, not a lesson in law.

jmf

 

[Kendall69]

Sure you can and end up like this guy...
Dumb accident - Heavy Equipment Forums

 

[jfh0jfh]

I think you took a big leap in reason. Most likely you got a break, not a lesson in law.

jmf

It doesn't seem like a leap to infer from 3 incidents. Now 4, having been stoped w/ a friend this Tuesday (in OH). But none of the 3 in OH were CCE so who knows?

My guess is that CCE would be more rigid but I also bet that they don't usually bother w/ non-commercial vehicles.

 

[jfh0jfh]

I have had my tanks dipped at weigh stations on several occasions, and have always wondered what they would do if they found dye. On the other hand, a real farm vehicle, that usually stays on the farm, if used to go to town once every six months and you actually put taxed fuel in it in town, and had the receipt would still show large trace of dye. What would they do in this case, and what are the rules?
David from jax

In OH my understanding is that red fuel can never go into a truck licensed for road use because the issue is road tax. So if you have an old on-farm pickup w/ license plates and decide to use it just that once to haul in a wagon - you're guilty (note: I think this but I can't say I know the law).

Conversely, you can move among your farms via public roads using your tractor and I assume you could haul a wagon into the grain bin in town if you were close enough.

A friend using his brother's farm truck was piped and caught last year. Mandatory court appearance and $250 fine - judge said he was giving him a break because it wasn't his truck.

My brother-in-law in the UK has a Land Rover diesel. Twice they've come to his house to inspect. I don't think they can do that here yet but we'll get there.

 

[Rara Avis]

I have had my tanks dipped at weigh stations on several occasions, and have always wondered what they would do if they found dye. On the other hand, a real farm vehicle, that usually stays on the farm, if used to go to town once every six months and you actually put taxed fuel in it in town, and had the receipt would still show large trace of dye. What would they do in this case, and what are the rules?
David from jax

Need a criminal record???

It is state dependent...
It will be illegal to operate a motor vehicle on public roadways in Texas using dyed diesel fuel. Currently, it is not against State law to use dyed diesel fuel in highway motor vehicles, as long as the State tax has been paid, except by a dyed diesel signed statement user. The penalty for using dyed diesel fuel in a highway motor vehicle is $25 to $200 civil fine and/or a Class C misdemeanor criminal offense with fines up to $1,000.

In Colorado, new legislation is being implemented. The State and IRS are working jointly on dyed fuel testing at ports of entry. Penalties are for the first offense, $1,000; second offense is $5,000; and third offense is $10,000. No penalties have been assesses yet because they are still in the testing phase. This testing period is being use for education of drivers. Most vehicles found in violation have been semis. One violation was a major fuel hauler.

A construction company in Nebraska has been caught repeatedly using dyed diesel in their vehicles. A joint audit was conducted with IFTA on the construction company that ended in a large assessment, which has been challenged. Additionally, the company was assessed $20,000 for using dyed diesel in their pickups. As a result, Nebraska is reviewing their statutes and may increase criminal penalties.

Nebraska is proposing: a $1,000 penalty for not reporting diversions of fuel; removing all outdated interstate motor carrier language from their statutes; and increasing bonds to $10,000 for the first year of operation

 

[ducati996]

In NY, the trailer can be over 10k if the combination is less than 26,001.

jmf

This is an old topic but I dont believe that is true - there is a reason why they register the trailers for under 10k, even with 5-6k axles. They offer you that choice besides being more $ to register, it requires a CDL for that trailer

 

[Builder]

This is an old topic but I dont believe that is true - there is a reason why they register the trailers for under 10k, even with 5-6k axles. They offer you that choice besides being more $ to register, it requires a CDL for that trailer

MOST states (including mine- PA) allow you to tow a trailer over 10K so long as the combination is under 26K, but I heard NY has some really stupid light-weight laws that don't allow you do tow over 10K without a CDL.

 

[jmfox]

Actually NY allows you to tow a truck trailer combination up to 36k if the trailer is less than 10k. If the trailer is over 10k then you are limited to 26k. I believe this is the maximum allowed by Federal Law.

jmf

MOST states (including mine- PA) allow you to tow a trailer over 10K so long as the combination is under 26K, but I heard NY has some really stupid light-weight laws that don't allow you do tow over 10K without a CDL.

 

[Rara Avis]

Actually NY allows you to tow a truck trailer combination up to 36k if the trailer is less than 10k. If the trailer is over 10k then you are limited to 26k. I believe this is the maximum allowed by Federal Law.

jmf

This is the latest response from NY officialdom...
http://www.nyshc.org/currentissues/CDL Requirements for Horse Trailers.pdf

 

[Builder]

Actually NY allows you to tow a truck trailer combination up to 36k if the trailer is less than 10k. If the trailer is over 10k then you are limited to 26k. I believe this is the maximum allowed by Federal Law.

jmf

That's true in my state, too. What I think got lost in translation is that I'm talking cases when the trailer weighs over 10K AND the combination is over 26K, then a Class A CDL is required. for example, a 16,000 lb GVWR F-450 is pulling a 11,000 lb trailer, a CDL is required. that's because the combination weighs 27,000 lbs, clearly more than the 26K limit.

However, my state is just like your's in that if the trailer is under 10,001 lbs, and the towing vehicle has a GVWR of under 26,001lbs, then no CDL is required. So someone driving a 26,000 GVWR truck pulling a 10K trailer is not required to have a CDL since the trailer is under 10,001 lbs.

 

[ducati996]

This is the latest response from NY officialdom...
http://www.nyshc.org/currentissues/CDL%20Requirements%20for%20Horse%20Trailers.pdf

I just spoke with your contact above - I think this might help some of you especially in the new york area. For example my truck a Ford F550 with a GWVR at 19,000 lbs (notice under 26k) and my trailer which is rated at 9800lbs (under the 10k) - are ok and dont require a CDL. It does sound like the combined is not to exceed on these forms, but he assures me that isnt the case, as long as they are both under the limits mentioned above.

Im sure this is still clear as mud for all, but all I know is that I'm ok -

 

[Marc 21]

I don't think it's the same in canada, i don't think that there's a limit you can pull with a certain liscence. Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[krackerjack9]

I think this might clear it up

F-450 Weight 9000
Trailer Empty " 4500

Total " 13,500lbs


Ok so your trailer can hold 20,000lbs but you got to stay under the 26,000lb limit

So 26,000
-13,500
------------

you could put 12,500lbs on the trailer and be under the 26,000lb wieght

How to increase the wieght you could haul with the F450?

Get a 18,000lb trailer whose empty wieght is say 2500lbs

Truck Weight 9000lbs
Trailer " 2500
total 11500

So 26,000
- 11,500
-----------

Now you can haul 13,500lbs on a 18,000lb trailer

Ok get a Chev 2500HD wieght is 6,000lbs

now use the 20,000lb trailer empty wieght of 4500lbs

2500HD wieght 6,000lbs
trailer empty " 4,500lbs
total 10,500lbs

You could load 15,500lbs,,,,, **** but the 2500HD/3500HD can legally only have a Gross weight of 24,000lbs****

I think this is a better way of looking at it, Or at least this is how I look at it.

Now sure the Chev 2500HD/3500HD can pull a whole lot more but the brakes are the issue.

Personally I am looking at getting a Chev 2500HD and a 18,000 trailer to haul a either a Komatsu D21 bulldozer which wieghs in at 9,000lbs thats a piece of cake, the other side of me wants to get a D31 bulldozer that weighs in at 15,00lbs there I would be overwieght of the 26,000lb but I am going to tag my trailer with Farm Tags and not really plan on getting on any interstates, only for moving from one farm or ranch maybe 4 or 5 times a year. Yes I be well over the Gross wieght of the truck. But chances of a Texas State Trooper in my area are pretty slim. Is it worth the risk not really anything can happen and if it did even though if it was not my fault a drunk driver could hit me head on but when it was all said and done who would loose the most??? The drunk just looses his car and maybe 10k in court cost. Me I could loose control and hit someone else or flip over and Im out 30k or better. Sure insurance would kick in but the insurance cost increase would not be worth for me to pursue.

 

[Robbie Hegwood]

The above info is incorrect. The DOT here in georgia enforces the plated info more than actual weight. Open the door, the gross on that sticker, plus the gross on the trailer plate is what they go by. Full or empty. If over 26,001 then there lies the trouble. I haven't heard what they say about the trailer being over 10k but we dodge the 26k rule with 26k truck plates and "special" rated trailers. Like a 30' triple goose plated at 13,600!!!

 

[Landwise]

In NC- Trailer over 10k gvw, but combined weight (Gvw) under 26,001 lbs requires a Class A Classified (Non CDL) ie: 2000 F250 Gvw of 8800 lbs and a 7 ton capacity trailer with a gvw of 17,200 lbs, requires a Class A Classified. With my 10 ton trailer (GVW OF 24,990) I have to have a Class A CDL Anything with a combined GVW of over 26,001 towing requires an A CDL. You don't have to take the airbrakes section though...

You can plate a toyota at 45,000 lbs if you want, as long as you have the Lic for it, but as someone else posted- A good Lawyer will get you in Civil Court (Not Criminal) if you get in an accident.