Can I legally tow a 20,000 lb. trailer with my F-450?

[Builder]

In NC- Trailer over 10k gvw, but combined weight (Gvw) under 26,001 lbs requires a Class A Classified (Non CDL) ie: 2000 F250 Gvw of 8800 lbs and a 7 ton capacity trailer with a gvw of 17,200 lbs, requires a Class A Classified. With my 10 ton trailer (GVW OF 24,990) I have to have a Class A CDL Anything with a combined GVW of over 26,001 towing requires an A CDL. You don't have to take the airbrakes section though...

You can plate a toyota at 45,000 lbs if you want, as long as you have the Lic for it, but as someone else posted- A good Lawyer will get you in Civil Court (Not Criminal) if you get in an accident.

That there's gotta be the stupidest set of trailering laws I've ever heard of...

I wouldn't need a good lawyer if someone hits me with a Toyota towing 45K, just a judge that knows how to read the manufacturer's GVWR sticker of the vehicle and enough common sense to know that anything beyond that is beyond the engineered safety limit of that vehicle.

 

[Willis Fecon Bushhogging]

I think this might clear it up

F-450 Weight 9000
Trailer Empty " 4500

Total " 13,500lbs


Ok so your trailer can hold 20,000lbs but you got to stay under the 26,000lb limit

So 26,000
-13,500
------------

you could put 12,500lbs on the trailer and be under the 26,000lb wieght

How to increase the wieght you could haul with the F450?

Get a 18,000lb trailer whose empty wieght is say 2500lbs

Truck Weight 9000lbs
Trailer " 2500
total 11500

So 26,000
- 11,500
-----------

Now you can haul 13,500lbs on a 18,000lb trailer

Ok get a Chev 2500HD wieght is 6,000lbs

now use the 20,000lb trailer empty wieght of 4500lbs

2500HD wieght 6,000lbs
trailer empty " 4,500lbs
total 10,500lbs

You could load 15,500lbs,,,,, **** but the 2500HD/3500HD can legally only have a Gross weight of 24,000lbs****

I think this is a better way of looking at it, Or at least this is how I look at it.

Now sure the Chev 2500HD/3500HD can pull a whole lot more but the brakes are the issue.

Personally I am looking at getting a Chev 2500HD and a 18,000 trailer to haul a either a Komatsu D21 bulldozer which wieghs in at 9,000lbs thats a piece of cake, the other side of me wants to get a D31 bulldozer that weighs in at 15,00lbs there I would be overwieght of the 26,000lb but I am going to tag my trailer with Farm Tags and not really plan on getting on any interstates, only for moving from one farm or ranch maybe 4 or 5 times a year. Yes I be well over the Gross wieght of the truck. But chances of a Texas State Trooper in my area are pretty slim. Is it worth the risk not really anything can happen and if it did even though if it was not my fault a drunk driver could hit me head on but when it was all said and done who would loose the most??? The drunk just looses his car and maybe 10k in court cost. Me I could loose control and hit someone else or flip over and Im out 30k or better. Sure insurance would kick in but the insurance cost increase would not be worth for me to pursue.

I learned the hard way. I had to get the Fecon machine moved or lose the job, I couldnt get anyone to move it, so I thought with my bank account and not with my head. I am only sharing my bad experience, maybe to help someone else. A friend of mind said, you can borrow my 10 ton gooseneck and pull it with my F350. Hooked the trailer up and left 5am, loaded the machine and headed to the next job, all is going great, Whow up ahead, what is that, it couldnt be Santa Claus, Nope Mr DOT, safety inspection, pulled up gave him my license, he took one look at the trailer and said pull over to the side (no safety breakaway box)
next weighed the whole thing, 13,000 lb over weight, out of service sticker on trailer. I was lucky that I found a lowboy that came an got the trailer and the machine.
This was a real bad experience, so Im only sharing this, so maybe it will help someone (I dont need any smart replies) sometimes you do what you have to. This learning experience cost me $1300 +. If there is a good thing, make sure that your truck has the proper weight and if you borrow something, make sure its legal (this one wasnt, no breakaway box, no federal inspection, tail light out)
my 2 cents worth (I guess I should have said my $1300 worth)

 

[John White]

It is strange that the DOT is not really intersted in safety, only in collecting money and enforceing a bad rule that should have been re written any way. For example the 26000 GVW I could live with. (would be nicer if it was 28000) Take for example, I have a F350 rated at 10000 GVW lbs. ( I had a F450 rted at 14000. My trailer gross rating is 12000, (trailer weight about 2500) (truck about 8000) Truck and trailer weight together about 10500. If I load my back hoe on (hoe weighs 9000) Total weight 19500 which makes me under the cdl ( over on the trailer GVW) but still this is a unsafe combination when it comes to emergency brakeing and handing. I see vehicles like this all the time and they just dont have the BRAKEING ability they need. You have a 10500 load pushing a 8000 vehicle. But if I hook up my larger dump truck with a 26000 rating , truck, trailer and back hoe (total wight about 21000) I am totally illegall. I have enough braking ability to stop the truck in a panic stop and enough weight so the triler does not push the truck. Of course I am way over the combined GVW rating because if you take the 26000 and the 12000 trailer that puts you up to38000. I dont see the bid deal if your total loaded, trailer and truck combined does not exceed 26000 lbs. This gives you a very good margin of safety. I had a light tri axel trailer once (home made) with brakes on all three axels, and it made a world of difference in braking, still pulling a 9000 load, but the PCO said they could care less about my brakeing ability, just my GVW capability. And they could care less that I had used lighter steel, (just that it had 3 axels that could support 18000 lbs) I said I could provide a structiual engineer stateing that the frame would not support 18000lbs. (axels yes, for brakeing ability only) but they wernt intersted. A 12000 gvw trailer has larger brakers than a 10000 gvw. but they dont about safety, only abouty GVW ratings. And they admitted they could care less if I towed it with my little Ford Ranger, as long as the triler was rated not more than 10000 lbs and not to exceed 26000 with truck and trailer.

 

[foz]

According to federal DOT guidlines, you MUST have a CDL class A license because your total Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is over 26,000 Lbs.

The truck is rated at 15,000 + 20,000 trailer = 35,000 Lbs

Will your truck tow it? Most likely yes.

DOT tickets:
1. driving out of class
2. over combination weight, Ford likely has a 26,000 Lb combined gross weight rating for your truck, and if I figured right you would weigh in at around 28,000 Lbs
3. Ticket for any axles that are over weight depending on how your load is set (usually get 1 hour to correct along road)

Basically you would be red tagged & would have to have a CDL driver come pick up your rig

 

[Beavis]

One thing that I think needs clarified; just because you drive a combination of vehicles that is over 26,000 pounds which includes a trailer that is over 10,000 pounds doesn't mean you need a CDL.

Example: If you drive a 15,000 GVWR truck and a 12,000 GVWR trailer; it still all depends on the "use". If it is not for commercial use, you wouldn't need a CDL, just a class A license. Now if it is for commercial use, then you would need a class A CDL.

A motorhome (personal use) with a GVWR of 35,000 pounds needs a Non-commercial class B while a tandem axle dump truck (haul for hire) with a GVWR of 35,000 pounds that you use to haul rock for hire would require a class B CDL.

 

[civesnedfield]

One thing that I think needs clarified; just because you drive a combination of vehicles that is over 26,000 pounds which includes a trailer that is over 10,000 pounds doesn't mean you need a CDL.

Example: If you drive a 15,000 GVWR truck and a 12,000 GVWR trailer; it still all depends on the "use". If it is not for commercial use, you wouldn't need a CDL, just a class A license. Now if it is for commercial use, then you would need a class A CDL.

A motorhome (personal use) with a GVWR of 35,000 pounds needs a Non-commercial class B while a tandem axle dump truck (haul for hire) with a GVWR of 35,000 pounds that you use to haul rock for hire would require a class B CDL.

That is all dependant on the State you live in, and even if your state has Class A non commercial once you cross the state line you better have a good story. Not all states offer a non commercial Clas A or B

 

[john_bud]

According to federal DOT guidlines, you MUST have a CDL class A license because your total Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is over 26,000 Lbs.

The truck is rated at 15,000 + 20,000 trailer = 35,000 Lbs

Will your truck tow it? Most likely yes.

DOT tickets:
1. driving out of class
2. over combination weight, Ford likely has a 26,000 Lb combined gross weight rating for your truck, and if I figured right you would weigh in at around 28,000 Lbs
3. Ticket for any axles that are over weight depending on how your load is set (usually get 1 hour to correct along road)

Basically you would be red tagged & would have to have a CDL driver come pick up your rig

No, not always.

If the truck is 25,999, it can pull a trailer that is 10,000# and not require a cdl. For some reason, the magic number is 10,001# trailer weight. It's weird, makes no sense but still that's the way it is! A truck at 16000, pulling a trailer at 10,001 DOES need a CDL. Goofy

jb

jb

 

[foz]

In VA, and in NY (can't speak for other states) the magic number is 26,000 # in combination or single. Once you go over that you need a Class A (neither state offers a non commercial class A). The 10,000 # trailer limitation comes in if you have a Class B or C CDL, you may tow up to 10,000# trailer even if you go over 26,000# combination as long as teh trailer is not rated for more than 10,000#.

As far as what the use is, to clarify that question. IF you are driving a total combination weight of over 26,000# whether or not you actually weigh over 26,000#...YOU ARE DRIVING OUT OF CLASS! We go by the Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings......trust me...I can write the ticket!

 

[Skyco]

In NC- Trailer over 10k gvw, but combined weight (Gvw) under 26,001 lbs requires a Class A Classified (Non CDL)

This one concerns me....I have a dump trailer rated at 14,000 lbs that I pull with my F350 rated at 9800 lbs. No problem here in SC. Now I venture into NC where I own property and I'm in violation because I don't have a class A license. SC doesn't even offer a non commercial class A license so what am I supposed to do?

 

[Builder]

In VA, and in NY (can't speak for other states) the magic number is 26,000 # in combination or single. Once you go over that you need a Class A (neither state offers a non commercial class A). The 10,000 # trailer limitation comes in if you have a Class B or C CDL, you may tow up to 10,000# trailer even if you go over 26,000# combination as long as teh trailer is not rated for more than 10,000#.

As far as what the use is, to clarify that question. IF you are driving a total combination weight of over 26,000# whether or not you actually weigh over 26,000#...YOU ARE DRIVING OUT OF CLASS! We go by the Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings......trust me...I can write the ticket!

I heard New York does not follow the general guidelines most states follow. They're much stricter.

 

[MrJimi]

I have read every post in this thread and I still don't understand it?
To give you an example, I have a
F-550 weight 7,000 pounds
25 foot trailer weight 3,000 pounds with a 14,000 capacity
The way I read this, I can't pull my trailer empty??
with a 26,000 pound drivers license and NOT commercial
Sandman2234/David, you know our Florida laws
Jim

 

[john_bud]

MrJimi,

It's not the emptyweight of the F550, it's the rated capacity or plate capacity. Unless you overload it, then it's the weight (which ever is larger and provides more revenue for the state).

The F550 is what 20,000 to 24,000# capacity? Let's call it 20,000. That means that you can only tow a 6000# trailer and not need a CDL. The trailer "weight" is the larger of the plate capacity, the rated capacity or the actual weight.

Yeah is sort of takes the fun out of owning an F550 it you need a CDL just to tow a bass boat! As Builder stated, some states require a CDL at lower weights. Some make you get USDOT numbers too. (Yuck!)

Merry Chirstmas and good luck with the cab lift.

jb

 

[MrJimi]

JB, my door sticker is GVWR is 17,500 and in Florida we can register these for less, lets say 10,000 pounds That should work here

 

[Builder]

I have read every post in this thread and I still don't understand it?
To give you an example, I have a
F-550 weight 7,000 pounds
25 foot trailer weight 3,000 pounds with a 14,000 capacity
The way I read this, I can't pull my trailer empty??
with a 26,000 pound drivers license and NOT commercial
Sandman2234/David, you know our Florida laws
Jim

With an F-550, you can tow up to a 10,000lb trailer with NO CDL.

Once the trailer goes up to or over 10,001 lbs you need a class A CDL since the combination weighs 27,501lbs. (17,500lbs + 10,001lbs = 27501 lbs). 27,501 lbs in excess of 26,001 lbs and your trailer is in excess of 10,001 lbs.

remember, you must meet BOTH requirements.

Since your trailer is tagged for 14,000lbs, your combination is well over the minimum to meet the requirements of needing a class A CDL because of your trailer weight.

Maybe I can explain it easier with an F-450 with a GVWR of 15,000lbs. If you had a 450 with a 15K GVWR, you could pull a heavier trailer than with your F-550 with no CDL. You could pull an 11K trailer with no CDL

Why? Because the the 15K F-450 and the 11K trailer add up to only 26,000lbs, which is UNDER one of the 2 requirements for needing a CDL (combination over 26,001 lbs AND a trailer weight over 10,001 lbs). Now if the trailer behind the F-450 was a 12K trailer, then you WOULD need a CDL because the combination would weigh 27,000lbs, which is in excess of the maximum of 26K AND the trailer weighs over 10,001 lbs.


Clear as mud?

 

[Builder]

JB, my door sticker is GVWR is 17,500 and in Florida we can register these for less, lets say 10,000 pounds That should work here

Probably not, but even if it did, then you'd have a tough time carrying more than a 1 ton on the back without being overweight.

Once you hook up a 14K trailer and you had a 20% pin weight, you'd have an effective weight of 2,800lbs over your rear axle (14,000lbs x 20% = 2,800lbs). If your F-550 weighs 7,200lbs or less, you'd be just barely legal, but my F-450 weighed that much with no bed on it.

If you got pulled over with a 14K trailer & 20% pin weight and the cop pulled the scales out, once he determines your towing unit (truck) is over 10K, you're dead in the water.

You just have to make sure your truck registered at 10K is less than 10K with your trailer's pin weight added to the rear.

 

[MrJimi]

LOL, mud, yes, clear no
Take a look at this chart about halfway down to the charts
http://www3.hsmv.state.fl.us/Intranet/dmv/Forms/BTR/Milpak/83140.pdf
That will make it even muddier

 

[Builder]

LOL, mud, yes, clear no
Take a look at this chart about halfway down to the charts
http://www3.hsmv.state.fl.us/Intranet/dmv/Forms/BTR/Milpak/83140.pdf
That will make it even muddier

There's a lot of charts. Which part concerns you?

 

[MrJimi]

This part


II. TRUCKS AND TRAILERS - WEIGHTS
For trucks weighing 5,000 lbs. or less, if the shipping weight is not available on the manufacturer's certificate of origin a certified
weight affidavit from a weighing station is required. The gross vehicle weight (GVW) as declared by the owner, is required on
all truck-tractors and trucks weighing over 5000 pounds.
For heavy trucks with net weight of 5001-7999 lbs., GVW is calculated by adding the net weight of the truck and the truck's load.
For heavy trucks with net weight of 8000 lbs. up and truck-tractors, the GVW is calculated by adding the net weight of the truck
or truck-tractor and it's load to the net weight of the trailer and it's load

 

[Builder]

This part


II. TRUCKS AND TRAILERS - WEIGHTS
For trucks weighing 5,000 lbs. or less, if the shipping weight is not available on the manufacturer's certificate of origin a certified
weight affidavit from a weighing station is required. The gross vehicle weight (GVW) as declared by the owner, is required on
all truck-tractors and trucks weighing over 5000 pounds.
For heavy trucks with net weight of 5001-7999 lbs., GVW is calculated by adding the net weight of the truck and the truck's load.
For heavy trucks with net weight of 8000 lbs. up and truck-tractors, the GVW is calculated by adding the net weight of the truck
or truck-tractor and it's load to the net weight of the trailer and it's load

I'm not really sure what this has to do with needing a CDL.

What it seems like they're saying is to register your truck & trailer together.
We do that in my state, too.

 

[MrJimi]

I agree, I am an individual and all my weights are below 26,000. I will not use this commercial just personal use. Thats the part thats not sinking in here
Clear as mud