Carbon Dioxide

[k0ua]

I am sure glad this isn't a POLITICAL thread. I notice that POLITICAL thread the moderator agrees with STAY OPEN a lot longer than POLITICAL thread they mods don't agree with. Just saying.

 

[fried1765]

Amazing ain’t it?
Some of us understand that electric vehicles are nice, but require recharging>greater fossil fuel consumption>more greenhouse gasses and the average person doesn’t, you realize it’s EDUCATION that is lacking in this country!
No free lunch is 100% correct!

Id be a heck of a lot more ON BOARD with zero emissions vehicles, tractors, etc. if we FIRST made a clean electric grid to charge them!
So simple, yet so hard to grasp for the average emotional enviromentalist!

Rational thought is...... SO REFRESHING !!!

 

[ArlyA]

China currently has 247 NEW COAL FIRED electric plants under construction!
China will feed those 40% mandated "pollution free" EV's.....with coal fired electricity!
Coal is CHEAP energy throughout the world!
There ain't no free lunch!

Do we know if China is putting scrubbers on these coal fired plants?? All growing 3rd world nations are looking for power so I'm not shocked they are building more power facilities. I hope they are the cleaner versions.

 

[sd455dan]

The latest atmospheric measurements of CO2 come in at 412 parts per million. This is the highest in more than several lifetimes, an increase of 47% since the start of the industrial revolution and 11% since the year 2000!

Carbon Dioxide functions like a Heat Blanket in the atmosphere, trapping sunlight energy and increasing the surface temperature of the Earth. This vast increase in the last twenty-four years is a direct result of increased combustion of fossil fuels....Oil and Coal.

Please tell me you hate this news, please tell me you don't believe in science but please listen. The audience of this forum is largely rural. Your interests should be aligned with a healthy environment and sustained ability of YOUR climate to support life as you wish it to be. The evidences of drought, elevated temperatures in many parts of the country, resulting fires and diminishing Glacial coverage at high elevations, more frequent and more intense Hurricanes striking the SE coast are not a hoax. All I, or anyone aware of the facts asks, is to please quit rebelling against improvements in how we conduct our operations. Look forward to vastly improved environmental tools and equipment and take pride, in taking part.

412 ppm?
measurements at maunaloa of 421.36 ppm were measured on April 8th 2021

Then again, weren't some Volcanos in the area erupting at the time

 

[repete]

On a round trip flight from Chicago to Hawaii on a 737 the consumption of fuel will be about 115 gallons of highly filtered #1 fuel oil. This is the consumption of only the flight and not getting to and from the airport.
I will choose to consume my 115+ gallons with my tractor and do not appreciate being lectured on climate change by someone who uses aircraft to take a vacation.

 

[cqaigy2]

Top 1% wealth in this country uses %50 percent of consumables compared to the rest of us, that includes co2 production and other types of pollution.

 

[PuffyC]

Amazing ain’t it?
Some of us understand that electric vehicles are nice, but require recharging>greater fossil fuel consumption>more greenhouse gasses and the average person doesn’t, you realize it’s EDUCATION that is lacking in this country!

China continuing down the coal path is troubling for sure but they’re investing in clean energy production too - it’s not all coal. But even with power derived from coal, EVs offer around a 30% total reduction in overall emissions versus vehicles that run on carbon based fuels.

 

[CalG]

Do we know if China is putting scrubbers on these coal fired plants?? All growing 3rd world nations are looking for power so I'm not shocked they are building more power facilities. I hope they are the cleaner versions.

Couldn't we in the "western world, Put scrubbers on our coal fired plants? Present estimates in Germany, G.B> and the US suggest coal reserves sufficient to provide energy needs well into our great, great grand children's future

 

[CalG]

In that light, water vapor it's self will cause a steady increase in temperature.

You might want to bring up the balance factors. Why has global warming NOT followed predictions?

Is the science bad?

eta

reference to comment in post #10

 

[PuffyC]

I am sure glad this isn't a POLITICAL thread. I notice that POLITICAL thread the moderator agrees with STAY OPEN a lot longer than POLITICAL thread they mods don't agree with. Just saying.

Is discussing the environment political? If it is it shouldn’t be but I know it can be a very unpopular topic.

 

[Hay Dude]

China continuing down the coal path is troubling for sure but they’re investing in clean energy production too - it’s not all coal. But even with power derived from coal, EVs offer around a 30% total reduction in overall emissions versus vehicles that run on carbon based fuels.

So we’ve already reduced motor vehicle emissions by something like 70% using better exhaust filtration and better efficiency with engines. Why don’t we keep doing that AND turn adapt our existing power plants to cleaner emissions and build more nuclear instead of scrapping EVERYTHING and forcing everyone into electric vehicles?

That puts the expense on CORPORATIONS instead of INDIVIDUALS

I mean why go for your “30% cleaner” at huge expense to American citizens model, when we could clean up the power plants first, while continuing to lower emission. THEN we could see where we are at?

 

[repete]

Here in Washington State we have a reputation for rain.
Hard to believe rain water (hydroelectric power) is not considered a renewable resource here but wind and sun are.

 

[ultrarunner]

Back in the 70's tax credit for wood stoves because wood was the considered a renewable...

 

[CalG]

China continuing down the coal path is troubling for sure but they’re investing in clean energy production too - it’s not all coal. But even with power derived from coal, EVs offer around a 30% total reduction in overall emissions versus vehicles that run on carbon based fuels.

Now don't go mixing carbon dioxide / green house gasses, with "Overall emissions". That's just bad science.

And if you do the math, the conversion of carbon based fuels to heat energy by the process of rapid oxidation follows very strict stoichiometric relationships. No free lunch!

 

[Hay Dude]

Couldn't we in the "western world, Put scrubbers on our coal fired plants? Present estimates in Germany, G.B> and the US suggest coal reserves sufficient to provide energy needs well into our great, great grand children's future

I have read several articles that the natural gas supply (natural gas very clean burning) under Pennsylvania ALONE, could power the US power plants for hundreds of years!

Why not pursue that?

 

[PuffyC]

So we’ve already reduced motor vehicle emissions by something like 70% using better exhaust filtration and better efficiency with engines. Why don’t we keep doing that AND turn adapt our existing power plants to cleaner emissions and build more nuclear instead of scrapping EVERYTHING and forcing everyone into electric vehicles?

That puts the expense on CORPORATIONS instead of INDIVIDUALS

I don’t disagree, but I will say that like governments, corporations don’t really have money the same way people have money. By that I mean when you tax a corporation (or sue a city) that cost just gets passed down to the consumer (taxpayer) so in the end you and I are the ones who are actually paying that money, not ‘the government’ or ‘the corporation’.

 

[Hay Dude]

I don’t disagree, but I will say that like governments, corporations don’t really have money the same way people have money. By that I mean when you tax a corporation (or sue a city) that cost just gets passed down to the consumer (taxpayer) so in the end you and I are the ones who are actually paying that money, not ‘the government’ or ‘the corporation’.

Yes, but I see the “tax” on more expensive fuel created by cleaning up power plants as more fairly spread out expense, versus forcing Americans to scrap their fossil fuel vehicles and be forced to buy electric.
What do you tell a person who pays $75,000 for a car/truck that it must be scrapped and they must spend a similar amount for an electric car?
Most people can’t make ends meet.

 

[repete]

100% correct Puffy, consumers pay for it all in the end.

 

[ArlyA]

Couldn't we in the "western world, Put scrubbers on our coal fired plants? Present estimates in Germany, G.B> and the US suggest coal reserves sufficient to provide energy needs well into our great, great grand children's future

We did but its still not a perfect setup. They did this many years ago.

 

[ArlyA]

Yes, but I see the “tax” on more expensive fuel created by cleaning up power plants as more fairly spread out expense, versus forcing Americans to scrap their fossil fuel vehicles and be forced to buy electric.
What do you tell a person who pays $75,000 for a car/truck that it must be scrapped and they must spend a similar amount for an electric car?

I've seen NO legislation proposing a bill that will force you or me to buy electric anything....