Carbon Dioxide

[crlf]

The scientist co-founder of Greenpeace, from back before it was completely co-opted by the corporatocracy, has some profound things to say on the matter:

 

[/pine]

The latest atmospheric measurements of CO2 come in at 412 parts per million. This is the highest in more than several lifetimes, an increase of 47% since the start of the industrial revolution and 11% since the year 2000!

Carbon Dioxide functions like a Heat Blanket in the atmosphere, trapping sunlight energy and increasing the surface temperature of the Earth. This vast increase in the last twenty-four years is a direct result of increased combustion of fossil fuels....Oil and Coal.

Please tell me you hate this news, please tell me you don't believe in science but please listen. The audience of this forum is largely rural. Your interests should be aligned with a healthy environment and sustained ability of YOUR climate to support life as you wish it to be. The evidences of drought, elevated temperatures in many parts of the country, resulting fires and diminishing Glacial coverage at high elevations, more frequent and more intense Hurricanes striking the SE coast are not a hoax. All I, or anyone aware of the facts asks, is to please quit rebelling against improvements in how we conduct our operations. Look forward to vastly improved environmental tools and equipment and take pride, in taking part.

You have been hoodwinked...you are a victim...take off the blinders and quit drinking the kool-aid...!

There is no more concrete evidence that human released C02 causes higher temps than there is proof of bigfoot...ABSOLUTELY ZERO...

 

[Dave N]

Perhaps a different way to look at is that the world is going the way it's going. The US has always been a world leader through innovation, technology, intelligence and resourcefulness. We can stay ahead by continuing to innovate, grow with the technology, and using our resources and intelligence to our advantage. To not change because third world countries aren't doesn't make sense to me. We're Americans, we lead the way.

Or, we we can continue to rely on technologies that are growing old and let others lead the way... and then years down the road buy those technologies from them as they once did from us...

EDIT* and I would LOVE an electric tractor to bring us back to the forum...

 

[TKBlanc]

The latest atmospheric measurements of CO2 come in at 412 parts per million. This is the highest in more than several lifetimes, an increase of 47% since the start of the industrial revolution and 11% since the year 2000!

Carbon Dioxide functions like a Heat Blanket in the atmosphere, trapping sunlight energy and increasing the surface temperature of the Earth. This vast increase in the last twenty-four years is a direct result of increased combustion of fossil fuels....Oil and Coal.

Please tell me you hate this news, please tell me you don't believe in science but please listen. The audience of this forum is largely rural. Your interests should be aligned with a healthy environment and sustained ability of YOUR climate to support life as you wish it to be. The evidences of drought, elevated temperatures in many parts of the country, resulting fires and diminishing Glacial coverage at high elevations, more frequent and more intense Hurricanes striking the SE coast are not a hoax. All I, or anyone aware of the facts asks, is to please quit rebelling against improvements in how we conduct our operations. Look forward to vastly improved environmental tools and equipment and take pride, in taking part.

Overall, modern equipment burns much cleaner. There are just so damned many people out there burning fossil fuels now. Gonna be hard to keep something catastrophic from happening.

 

[thistlemagnate]

Original post said:
> The latest atmospheric measurements of CO2 come in at 412 parts per million. This is the highest in more than several lifetimes,

Well, according to the National Geographic, the last time the earth was at 400 ppm was around 2.6 to 5.3 million years ago:
Climate Milestone: Earth's CO2 Level Passes 400 ppm

Let's assume 5 million years and lifetimes of 100 years, both a bit high but the math is easy.
That's 50,000 lifetimes, which definitely counts as "more than several".

Here's a very cool graphic, if you make it all the way to the bottom it will be pretty obvious
that the current spike in temps is not normal:
1732: Earth Temperature Timeline - explain xkcd

Catastrophic variations in global temps over just the last 20,000 years,
but there was nothing like the current changes in CO2 levels that we are having now.
When these high CO2 levels have time to give their full impact, the ice ages could look like minor inconveniences.

If we stop emitting CO2 now, temps will still coast up considerably as arctic ice melts to absorb more sun
and permafrost releases trapped methane. Oceans have been absorbing much of the excess CO2, but there's a limit to that.
It's a slow motion catastrophe, given current trends.
But I'm hopeful we can get through this.
Short term we may need a technological fix such as reflective aerosols in the upper atmosphere,
long term perhaps we will just get smarter.

We're off grid, drive gas vehicles, have a Branson 3510i for light farming.
Wood for heat, perhaps more solar panels and better insulation would be a better choice.
Expect to have an electric vehicle in the next couple years.

And if that 3510i engine burns up, I may be looking to replace the engine
with a salvaged Tesla motor and battery instead of spending $10k on a new engine.
All ears if somebody has succeeded in doing anything like that.

For those who insist on believing random facebook posts and youtube videos instead of
the 99% of scientists who study climate, I suggest you ask your grandkids.

 

[EdZsr]

The latest atmospheric measurements of CO2 come in at 412 parts per million. This is the highest in more than several lifetimes, an increase of 47% since the start of the industrial revolution and 11% since the year 2000!

Carbon Dioxide functions like a Heat Blanket in the atmosphere, trapping sunlight energy and increasing the surface temperature of the Earth. This vast increase in the last twenty-four years is a direct result of increased combustion of fossil fuels....Oil and Coal.

Please tell me you hate this news, please tell me you don't believe in science but please listen. The audience of this forum is largely rural. Your interests should be aligned with a healthy environment and sustained ability of YOUR climate to support life as you wish it to be. The evidences of drought, elevated temperatures in many parts of the country, resulting fires and diminishing Glacial coverage at high elevations, more frequent and more intense Hurricanes striking the SE coast are not a hoax. All I, or anyone aware of the facts asks, is to please quit rebelling against improvements in how we conduct our operations. Look forward to vastly improved environmental tools and equipment and take pride, in taking part.

Come on! 412 parts out of 1,000,000 lets get real here. If you tree huggers want o do something meaningful get China and India to reduce their emissions. They both get a free pass in the money grabbers climate change agreement.

 

[Yanmar J]

The latest atmospheric measurements of CO2 come in at 412 parts per million. This is the highest in more than several lifetimes, an increase of 47% since the start of the industrial revolution and 11% since the year 2000!

Carbon Dioxide functions like a Heat Blanket in the atmosphere, trapping sunlight energy and increasing the surface temperature of the Earth. This vast increase in the last twenty-four years is a direct result of increased combustion of fossil fuels....Oil and Coal.
What about cow farts, and how much oil and coal does it take to charge electric vehicles ? I am in no way a gas and oil man. How many of you still use gas chain saws. Mine is battery, Yes I have a gas lawn mower and string trimmer. I try to maintain an equilibrium. I would love to go all solar and battery. Batteries have come a long way but how much pollution do they make to create them.

Please tell me you hate this news, please tell me you don't believe in science but please listen. The audience of this forum is largely rural. Your interests should be aligned with a healthy environment and sustained ability of YOUR climate to support life as you wish it to be. The evidences of drought, elevated temperatures in many parts of the country, resulting fires and diminishing Glacial coverage at high elevations, more frequent and more intense Hurricanes striking the SE coast are not a hoax. All I, or anyone aware of the facts asks, is to please quit rebelling against improvements in how we conduct our operations. Look forward to vastly improved environmental tools and equipment and take pride, in taking part.

 

[Muhammad]

Haven't read all the posts in this thread but a reminder of forum rules...

Don't insult each other.

Don't bring politics into the conversation.

The mere fact that climate change exists or the science of why it happens is not political and as the OP mentioned, it is relevant to rural living as climate is a big part of growing.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Time changes most things. Most people in the USA collecting Social Security today will not be doing so in 2050.

Most are smart enough move from fossil fuel usage when using new energy sources cost less.

Fossil fuel usage will be around longer than most of us but long term it's days are numbered because of financial reasons not political reasons.

 

[Dave N]

15 ppb of lead in your water is the beginnings of all kinds of health issues. That's .015 ppm. It's all relative... A system out of balance is a system out of balance

 

[sunandsand]

Interesting thread . . . even if it doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do with tractors.

At least once a week I try to read something that I *know* I am going to disagree with. It shows me that other people, who in many cases, are as smart and rational as I am, can have very different viewpoints on the same matter.

Unfortunately, sometimes their viewpoints are not grounded in reality. Yesterday, I read an absolutely serious article (no, it wasn't in The Onion or Mad Magazine, the guy was convinced!) claiming that getting the Covid 19 vaccine will bring on the zombie apocalypse. Whatta moron, everyone knows it'll be vampires . . .

I know that is nonsense, for me, the only side effect of the second shot was that I suddenly have become very attractive to younger women. I can't wait for the booster shot!

Regarding the French and the Louisiana Purchase, it seemed like a good idea at the time. They had no idea what was there, couldn't defend it (too far away), and the best solution for them at the time was to take the money and run. Unload this turkey on the rubes, Jacques, we're better off without it.

As to saving our "bee-hinds" in the Revolutionary War, yes, they did help a LOT, but it wasn't entirely out of neighborliness. They'd been having a fight with the British for several hundred years (on and off) and their theory was that anything they could do to make the Brits unhappy was worthwhile - the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

They also got invaded and conquered by Prussia and later Germany, no less than three times in a row. The first time was the Franco-Prussian war in 1870, and the "smart money" said that France would win in about an hour. France used to be a major military power, Rudyard Kipling mentions them in a poem "The business of the French is war, and they are good at what they do". That actually ended when Napoleon decided to invade Russia in the winter (I told him that wasn't a good idea, but he didn't listen. I also told Yamamoto that the Americans would be really, really annoyed if he bombed Pearl Harbor and he wouldn't like the end result, not one little bit, but he didn't listen either. Oh well.)

The Prussians, who were derided as "a nation of schoolteachers" didn't expect to win, either, and in fact, had to buy maps to find their way to Paris, when they expected to be retreating instead.

What does this have to do with tractors? Not much, except that it is sometimes really hard to predict the future. Personally, I don't care if my tractor runs on diesel, electricity, or pixie dust, as long as I can get the work done. My choice of fuel is to some extent affected by environmental impacts, I don't think I'd be happy with a coal burning tractor.

I think a lot of the resistance to "environmental correctness" is that people don't like to be PUSHED into things, especially by governmental entities we don't seem to trust very much. Morality is doing the right thing even though you know that nobody is watching you.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[cdaigle430]

Climate change is happening for sure but the science behind it is flawed and confusing as well as corruptible through politics. But that's not what concerns me the most......

One thing that concerns me even more is we still have enough nukes to destroy this plane 100 times over with the push if a button. But that's not what concerns me the most....

As well as the earth's magnetic core is shutting down, hopefully just going in to reversal and not shutting down perm. If that happens nothing else will matter because we will all be radiated to a crisp. The north pole is slowly if not already in Russian territory and moving faster each year. Earth's axis is shifting hard. But that's not what concerns me the most....

Some say a doomsday virus awaits us frozen in the Antarctica....meanwhile glaciers are melting at an all time high. But that's not what concerns me the most...

So yes a change is coming...there is nothing you or I can do about it. Pick your posion....This is what concerns me the most.

 

[Whidbey]

Great documentary video, "Who killed the Electric Car?" Well worth a look for those who haven't seen it.
The science of anthropogenic Climate Change is clear. There is no scientific doubt. The political "debate," is a purely artificial one created by people who see their bottom line threatened by progress, and politicians they bought. It's a tragedy. Yes today's cars burn less fuel, but there are 5X as many of them, so any gains turned negative. This is simple arithmetic. The explosion of human population is part of the problem. People like to move around. People like to move things around. There are many, many more of us. We need to find new ways of doing things. ICE cars are already obsolete as battleships. Electric tractors will be the norm inside of a decade. There is zero doubt about the need to do these things, but there is grave doubt as to whether we're 30 years too late.
I'm 70 years old, and Electric Tractors will be too late for me. I use fossil fuels sparingly. I use a few gallons to process the firewood that heats my home. I have never, in my entire lifetime, driven anything close to 10,000 miles in a year. In retirement, I try to drive less than 4,000 miles per year and use less than 10 gallons of heating fuel in the winter. I used diesel power to maintain property, gather fuel and clear snow. Between the CUT and the lawn tractor, I probably use about 80-100 hours a year. I would love to have an ET and solar panels to charge it, and my nonexistant electric pickup. That will be the norm in 20 years, when I'm taking my dirt nap, lol.

No offense, but the causes of climate change are in dispute. The climate is always changing. Some glaciers are receding and trees have been found as the ice retreats. There is a lot of virtue signaling in regards to climate change. Unfortunately if you are on the other side of the argument you are minimized and sometimes insulted. We need to stick to science and not panic. If emissions are indeed driving climate change then maybe adapting is the best and most economic response

 

[Dave N]

Fossil fuel usage will be around longer than most of us but long term it's days are numbered because of financial reasons not political reasons.

Yep.

My brother-in-law has an electric car. 0-60 mph faster than I care to go, all wheel drive, as someone else said fewer moving parts, limited to no maintenance, the heater is hot immediately (my personal favorite). Lots of advantages. Once they tidy up the battery life and charging issues, I'll probably be getting one, or better yet an electric truck. BUT, also as someone else said (my apologies my computer is slow and I can't scroll back to see who exactly)- the lithium mines etc are DISASTERs. Work to be done on that end of the chain for sure.

Not sure how it will all translate into farming and agriculture, but I'm guessing someone will figure it out. Just like when we transitioned from horse power to tractor power. A "How will we get gasoline to the farms?" kind of thing.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Ok, so let’s all be forced into $75,000 electric cars and recharge them with pollution belching coal power plants while our present vehicles are being made worthless having little/no resale value.
That’s so stupid.

How many hay bales do you think you can deliver with a Tesla (etc.)

 

[ddbackhoe]

Yep.

My brother-in-law has an electric car. 0-60 mph faster than I care to go, all wheel drive, as someone else said fewer moving parts, limited to no maintenance, the heater is hot immediately (my personal favorite). Lots of advantages. Once they tidy up the battery life and charging issues, I'll probably be getting one, or better yet an electric truck. BUT, also as someone else said (my apologies my computer is slow and I can't scroll back to see who exactly)- the lithium mines etc are DISASTERs. Work to be done on that end of the chain for sure.

Not sure how it will all translate into farming and agriculture, but I'm guessing someone will figure it out. Just like when we transitioned from horse power to tractor power. A "How will we get gasoline to the farms?" kind of thing.

And the EV panels are really good for the landfills..
But, with more tax dollars applied, that too can be changed. Would be nice if you all would fix things without planning on using ”our” money.

Solar panel recycling: Turning ticking time bombs into opportunities

With the average lifespan of a solar panel at roughly 20 years, installations from the early 2000s are set to reach end-of-life. Will they end up in landfill or be recycled? The cost of recycling is higher than landfill, and the value of recovered materials is smaller than the original, so...

pv-magazine-usa.com

 

[Dave N]

With a Tesla about as many as with my Honda.

But with this bad boy...https://daimler-trucksnorthamerica.com/PressDetail/first-freightliner-ecascadia-battery-electric-trucks-2019-08-12

A few any way...

 

[lman]

This thread is associated with tractors because policies are being implemented that support increasing prices of fuel for our tractors with the reasoning that increasing prices will save the world because fuel will be unaffordable for some people. The quickest way to save the world is to eliminate half the population in the world. How about eliminating the population that uses the most fuel. This would be a large portion of wealthy people living in their big houses that are supporting these unfair policies.

 

[Whidbey]

Facts are aplenty, but facts will not convince the deniers, as they are driven by ideology, not the powers of observation that they almost all use every day. Tell me the difference in an operator studying a machine or field failure that is different from science? There is ideally little difference. Both are based in observation, in developing a hypothesis, and than doing the work to verify or disprove that hypothesis. But somehow people who believe they know their own work, have decided that "scientists do not know science". An odd rejection of experience.
I spent 20 years traveling the US adjusting weather catastrophe related building and equipment disasters. And in the last 10, (recently retired) I almost always met at least one old timer, often a farmer, who would say "I grew up here, been here 60-70 years, and we never before had weather like this, never this strong".
Will climate disaster have to happen to each and every one of us before the deniers begin to use the observation skills they already have on this problem?
By then, it will be too late.

We need science not anecdotal observations. The climate is always changing. One person's lifespan is a very incomplete measure of a process that occurs over thousands of years

 

[PILOON]

over population is the number 1 problem facing earth. (and all associated modernization to support that)

I think Covid is attempting to modify that population problem.