CEL DPF

[todd92]

It does on the trucks in its database. The Kioti would fall under 'generic'. If it works on the Kioti it should read and clear all codes. It might initiate forced regens. This assumes that Kioti hasn't figured out some magical encryption that only the dealers scanner can unlock. I was able to get my OBD2 scanner to communicate, it just wouldn't show the code, so I'm doubting that is the case.

Edit: For laughs I disconnected the battery overnight and touched the positive to negative, of course it did nothing. Maybe this worked on a car in 1995? It hasn't worked on anything I've ever tried it on, yet people still believe it works.

 

[JimR]

My OBD2 scanner can read all the engine running details. It can reset generic soft codes and tell you how many there are. It will not tell you what they are. Hopefully your HD will, but I doubt it very much from what my mechanic at the dealership told me. I watched him scanning my tractor on one occasion and he was using their software program.

 

[todd92]

My dealer tells me the same, in addition they claim that they have to link to Kioti's server to do anything. For $100 I'm willing to give the HD scanner a shot. I dropped it off today, last time they cleared the code and forced a regen I was there for an hour. This time they claim it's hard to get a hold of Kioti due to COVID so I had to leave it. This should not be this difficult.

 

[The Fred]

I can help you with code descriptions if you can pull them.

 

[The Fred]

It does on the trucks in its database. The Kioti would fall under 'generic'. If it works on the Kioti it should read and clear all codes. It might initiate forced regens. This assumes that Kioti hasn't figured out some magical encryption that only the dealers scanner can unlock. I was able to get my OBD2 scanner to communicate, it just wouldn't show the code, so I'm doubting that is the case.

Edit: For laughs I disconnected the battery overnight and touched the positive to negative, of course it did nothing. Maybe this worked on a car in 1995? It hasn't worked on anything I've ever tried it on, yet people still believe it works.

If the battery is disconnected on an Asian car the fault codes will still be there but the readiness monitors will be erased. On any European car the readiness monitors are saved if the battery gets disconnected.

Pre-OBD cars before 96 (depending on makes) would wipe everything when the power was down in the ECM.

 

[justman777]

My dealer tells me the same, in addition they claim that they have to link to Kioti's server to do anything. For $100 I'm willing to give the HD scanner a shot. I dropped it off today, last time they cleared the code and forced a regen I was there for an hour. This time they claim it's hard to get a hold of Kioti due to COVID so I had to leave it. This should not be this difficult.

Seems super sketchy they would need to get in touch with Kioti for such a simple thing as resetting a CEL. I agree on the $100 for the HD scanner. If it winds up working, it's way cheaper than loading up the tractor and hauling it every time you need a CEL code reset.

 

[rademamj1]

It just seems so useless, for the local Kioti dealer, is required to login into the Kioti servers, just to reset system codes and clear a CEL. Even doing a forced regen should be totally independent of the servers.

Tractors breakdown in the field many times, and running diagnostic software from a stand-alone laptop, on location should be a necessary goal of every tractor manufacturer and its dealers.

 

[justman777]

It just seems so useless, for the local Kioti dealer, is required to login into the Kioti servers, just to reset system codes and clear a CEL. Even doing a forced regen should be totally independent of the servers.

Tractors breakdown in the field many times, and running diagnostic software from a stand-alone laptop, on location should be a necessary goal of every tractor manufacturer and its dealers.

I think the bigger issue is the dealer having to contact technical support to figure out how to resolve an issue. Smaller dealers may not have trained (skilled) technicians, so they have to call Kioti support every time they have an issue that isn't entirely visible....like a blown tire, oil change, or broke window. I was dealing with my dealer on my suction side air leak (nope, still not resolved) and the dealer had to call Kioti support to see what the recommend solution was. The response was underwhelming, and went something like "Sounds like you have a suction side air leak. Recommend inspecting and repair." If that's the extent of Kioti support, it's a wonder anything gets fixed.

 

[bearthebruce]

I don't know Kioti but as I work for a company (Ross-Tech) that makes diagnostic tools for VAG cars, I can concur that an OBD2 reader is not likely to read all codes. OBD2 is a auto standard for emissions systems only. It does not cover HD trucks and by extension I am guessing it will not cover Ag machines. It does cover smaller trucks like pickup trucks and so on. (Unless things have recently changed, and I am not aware. That too is a possibility. )

Likely, clearing all codes on your Kioti's will require the manufacturer's diagnostic tool. I can understand your frustration!

So what I am learning, being new in the Ag Equipment lane, is there are no aftermarket diagnostic tools for Ag machines. This is just like it was back when we started. Anyone in the aftermarket who wanted to repair for themselves or do it without a dealer, was left to sink in their tears as they found they could not do it. The owner of our business wanted to work on his '97 GTi and found he could do nothing without a factory level tool - OBD did not give enough info by design. Sounds like the same state those in the Ag machine use find themselves.

I can't say if we are going to do anything. But, if you care to share with me what it is costing you and what you might consider paying for a tool, it might help us to think about where to go. PhantomofHeat has told me he thinks the ECU for the engines on Kioti machines are similar to the VAG controllers. That would be a great entree into this for us.

Understand, we are not talking about selling a couple thousand dollar tool - not our style. If we are gonna do something like this, then we have to see a way for us to recover our costs on a device that sells for less than $1000 USD and preferably far less than that number. None of us working land has the coin to spend thousands on a diagnostic tool. Our model would be to use a PC as a platform. We would figure out the interface by which we could electronically connect. Then we would have to reverse engineer what Kioti does to talk to the controllers. That's where the big cost comes in.

Mind, we are located outside of Philly. How many tractors do you think we see in the suburbs of Philly? Who will bring one and leave it for months.. There are other ways... but, my point is that like you, we have to have a business model that works.

If you have things you wish to discuss... PM me. I don't think we want this discussion in the open forum where Kioti and others may see it. Maybe the forum admins would consider a private area? You guys have been here a lot longer than I have been. I am a novice in all the Ag gear and your problems.. I am just learning about such problems which my guess is you have lived for the better part of 10 years.

Thank you for letting me be part of the discussion.

-Bruce

 

[todd92]

I had VAG Com for my 2016 Golf R, great tool. I have Bimmercode now for the 2019 BMW 330ix that replaced the VW, very similar. My understanding is the Kioti ECU is made by Delphi.

 

[bearthebruce]

I had VAG Com for my 2016 Golf R, great tool...... My understanding is the Kioti ECU is made by Delphi.

Thanks for the kind words Todd. Also thanks for letting us know you think the controller is Delphi. That likely would make it very different from what is found on VAG. I am going to begin searching to see if any have researched control modules to see who might be making them - see if their might be some common ground. Again, I don't want to offend any Admins and if this discussion needs to move elsewhere, we should make that move.

 

[todd92]

This might be of some help:

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/391748-kioti-tractor-tuning.html

 

[JimR]

I think the bigger issue is the dealer having to contact technical support to figure out how to resolve an issue. Smaller dealers may not have trained (skilled) technicians, so they have to call Kioti support every time they have an issue that isn't entirely visible....like a blown tire, oil change, or broke window. I was dealing with my dealer on my suction side air leak (nope, still not resolved) and the dealer had to call Kioti support to see what the recommend solution was. The response was underwhelming, and went something like "Sounds like you have a suction side air leak. Recommend inspecting and repair." If that's the extent of Kioti support, it's a wonder anything gets fixed.

That is exactly what caused me to have to drop off my tractor 3 different times to be fixed for a bad fuel injector that was plugging up the DPF and Kioti said that it wasn't bad enough to cause the problem. Almost 4 months without my tractor which I used for under 3 hours during that time and was charged over $2k for the work. To which Kioti reimbursed me for $573.00. I have since written them demanding the balance or else. They have until May 15th to refund me what I paid out of pocket. After that the Court will decide this issue. My patience has run out after that ordeal and lack of technical support.

 

[rademamj1]

JimR: From your posts and comments, we all know your situation with the fuel injector problem. That a fuel injector was delivering 150% of required fuel, which overwhelmed the emissions system and fully plugged the DPF.

I was talking with a Kubota dealer last week, and just like Kioti, they also use a laptop for complete engine diagnostics, view system control settings and can even do a forced regen from the laptop. They can determine the amount of fuel each cylinder receives, and even override and adjust the fuel accordingly.

Is it possible, that somewhere a Kioti technician accidentally and without knowing it, adjusted the fuel injection level to 150% thus creating the problems you experienced with your DPF emissions system. These laptops can be dangerous in the hands of a poorly trained technician.

 

[JimR]

JimR: From your posts and comments, we all know your situation with the fuel injector problem. That a fuel injector was delivering 150% of required fuel, which overwhelmed the emissions system and fully plugged the DPF.

I was talking with a Kubota dealer last week, and just like Kioti, they also use a laptop for complete engine diagnostics, view system control settings and can even do a forced regen from the laptop. They can determine the amount of fuel each cylinder receives, and even override and adjust the fuel accordingly.

Is it possible, that somewhere a Kioti technician accidentally and without knowing it, adjusted the fuel injection level to 150% thus creating the problems you experienced with your DPF emissions system. These laptops can be dangerous in the hands of a poorly trained technician.

Prior to those DPF clogging issues my tractor ran awesome except for the bad throttle lever switch. After that switch was changed I put another 70 or so trouble-free hours on it before the Regen issues started. They never checked the injectors until my third trip out there for the same problem with another multiple failed regens and the CEL on. The mechanic did a Run Up and Shut down test on my tractor which showed that one injector was super rich. I don't believe that any settings were messed with because they did replace that injector.

 

[The Fred]

Everything you need to know is in the workshop manual, blink codes with descriptions and work throughs.

Since ECM talks in CAN on pins 4 and 16 I would think a code reader might at least pull a code number for you.

There's also a bulletin on how to diagnose the DPF. It's called How_to_diagnose_or_resolve_the_Prematurely_clogged_DPF_Problem

 

[JimR]

Everything you need to know is in the workshop manual, blink codes with descriptions and work throughs.

Since ECM talks in CAN on pins 4 and 16 I would think a code reader might at least pull a code number for you.

There's also a bulletin on how to diagnose the DPF. It's called How_to_diagnose_or_resolve_the_Prematurely_clogged_DPF_Problem

A standard code reader won't pull the codes. It would be nice if it could.

 

[The Fred]

I don't have a Kioti with an ECU but my neighbor does, I have 2 toolboxes full of laptops and scan tools I'd love to try and see what my junk would do.

 

[JimR]

I don't have a Kioti with an ECU but my neighbor does, I have 2 toolboxes full of laptops and scan tools I'd love to try and see what my junk would do.

Who is going to give you what your tractor is worth if it has issues?

 

[todd92]

Got the tractor back today. Same issue as a year ago, DPF 200% clogged hence the CEL and limp mode. Now reading 4%. It never read that low after the forced regen a year ago, so the pressure washing worked. However, the dealer claims DPF cannot be washed because it's different, unlike an OTR truck DPF it has a heater in it and washing it will ruin it. LOL. They also claim it's plugging up because I'm using bad fuel. The same bad fuel that is causing zero issues in a Kubota skid steer and another Kioti tractor. This tractor gets used in the winter solely for grapple work. The problem has happened 2 springs in a row as soon as we start using it hard again. This winter we did manual regens to try to prevent it but it happened anyway. Something else is going on. I'm putting the higher temp thermostat in it. Jim R, exactly how did they eventually diagnose your bad injector?