Chain Saw Question

kevinj · Jun 6, 2006

( 180 MS C )

This is a small 14" saw just like mine. If you have everything clean and properly assembled the chain will stay put unless the tooless cover is defective. I forgot to mention earlier that you must be careful to engage the gear from the black thumbwheel into the large gear on the bar. If you do not the bar will rock and adjustment is not positive. Also this .043 mini chain has an initial stretch that Stihl mentions in the book. This is a light duty saw and is very well designed for the price. For more serious cutting I use the 260 pro model.

kevinj · Jun 6, 2006

( 180 MS C )

This is a small 14" saw just like mine. If you have everything clean and properly assembled the chain will stay put unless the tooless cover is defective. I forgot to mention earlier that you must be careful to engage the gear from the black thumbwheel into the large gear on the bar. If you do not the bar will rock and adjustment is not positive. Also this .043 mini chain has an initial stretch that Stihl mentions in the book. This is a light duty saw and is very well designed for the price. For more serious cutting I use the 260 pro model.

kevinj · Jun 6, 2006

( For what its worth, each time I get done using the chain saw, I let it cool down for a bit, take the face plate off, take the bar off, clean everything out, flip the bar around (tells you to in the manual), put the chain back on, and then make sure tension is correct and everything is secure )

I see no reason to flip the bar every use. I run one side till the chain is shot, replace the chain and flip the bar. It is more important to keep the chain sharp.

kevinj · Jun 6, 2006

( For what its worth, each time I get done using the chain saw, I let it cool down for a bit, take the face plate off, take the bar off, clean everything out, flip the bar around (tells you to in the manual), put the chain back on, and then make sure tension is correct and everything is secure )

I see no reason to flip the bar every use. I run one side till the chain is shot, replace the chain and flip the bar. It is more important to keep the chain sharp.

RayH · Jun 6, 2006

Is it possible you just arent used to the power of the Stihl verses the Poulan. Ive got two Poulans and I like both of them because they always start for me. I can let them sit throughout the winter and with old fuel in them, two or three pulls and they are running. BUT, they are under powered. If the chain binds just a little, they will stall. Maybe the Stihl isnt stalling as soon as the chain binds its pulling the chain off the bar before you react.

RayH · Jun 6, 2006

Is it possible you just arent used to the power of the Stihl verses the Poulan. Ive got two Poulans and I like both of them because they always start for me. I can let them sit throughout the winter and with old fuel in them, two or three pulls and they are running. BUT, they are under powered. If the chain binds just a little, they will stall. Maybe the Stihl isnt stalling as soon as the chain binds its pulling the chain off the bar before you react.

proudestmonkey · Jun 6, 2006

I do like the saw alot, and it fits my needs fine. I don't want a heavier saw for what I do. I have checked to make sure the black screw meshes with the larger wingnut thing. It may be that this chain saw is particularly sensitive to even the slightest looseness, way more than my old saw.

proudestmonkey · Jun 6, 2006

I do like the saw alot, and it fits my needs fine. I don't want a heavier saw for what I do. I have checked to make sure the black screw meshes with the larger wingnut thing. It may be that this chain saw is particularly sensitive to even the slightest looseness, way more than my old saw.

kevinj · Jun 6, 2006

( It may be that this chain saw is particularly sensitive to even the slightest looseness, way more than my old saw. I have checked to make sure the black screw meshes with the larger wingnut thing.
)

You are dealing with a special Stihl light weight chain. Once properly broke in and tensioned it will last a long time.

If you have the gears meshed and the bar still rocks you have a problem, time for a trip to the dealer. This may be a dumb question, but do you have the tension device properly mounted to the bar???

kevinj · Jun 6, 2006

( It may be that this chain saw is particularly sensitive to even the slightest looseness, way more than my old saw. I have checked to make sure the black screw meshes with the larger wingnut thing.
)

You are dealing with a special Stihl light weight chain. Once properly broke in and tensioned it will last a long time.

If you have the gears meshed and the bar still rocks you have a problem, time for a trip to the dealer. This may be a dumb question, but do you have the tension device properly mounted to the bar???

Bob53 · Jun 6, 2006

( The tensioner is not automatic. Its manual. But, its designed to be faster. On most chain saws that I've seen (including my old one), there are two nuts that secure a face plate to the saw, which also holds the chain in place. To tension the chain, you loosen the nuts, and then tighten a screw to tighten the chain. Then you re-tighten the nuts. On this model (180 MS) there is only one "nut", not two, and instead of it being a galvanized metal nut, its a larger (two inch) circular peice of plastic, part of which flips out and then can be used to turn it. I am wondering if this is the problem, not enough torque with one nut, instead of two, and plastic to boot, to prevent the chain from moving side to side across the groove of the chain.

)

I'm really not familar with those type models, all mine are the two bolt. kevinj seems to know about the saw .
not knowing the saw, only recomendation can tell you is like some other have said, keep the chain relativly sharp when using and clean every thing expecially oiler area and bar grooves to keep from overheating and easier on chain then.

Bob53 · Jun 6, 2006

( The tensioner is not automatic. Its manual. But, its designed to be faster. On most chain saws that I've seen (including my old one), there are two nuts that secure a face plate to the saw, which also holds the chain in place. To tension the chain, you loosen the nuts, and then tighten a screw to tighten the chain. Then you re-tighten the nuts. On this model (180 MS) there is only one "nut", not two, and instead of it being a galvanized metal nut, its a larger (two inch) circular peice of plastic, part of which flips out and then can be used to turn it. I am wondering if this is the problem, not enough torque with one nut, instead of two, and plastic to boot, to prevent the chain from moving side to side across the groove of the chain.

)

I'm really not familar with those type models, all mine are the two bolt. kevinj seems to know about the saw .
not knowing the saw, only recomendation can tell you is like some other have said, keep the chain relativly sharp when using and clean every thing expecially oiler area and bar grooves to keep from overheating and easier on chain then.

Spiffy · Jun 6, 2006

Just to throw out another option: if the small trees are your nemesis, perhaps a wider gage chain would work better. It'd probably eat more HP on deep cuts, but to not bend drive links, maybe it's a good option or at least a good question to ask your dealer.

Spiffy · Jun 6, 2006

Just to throw out another option: if the small trees are your nemesis, perhaps a wider gage chain would work better. It'd probably eat more HP on deep cuts, but to not bend drive links, maybe it's a good option or at least a good question to ask your dealer.

proudestmonkey · Jun 6, 2006

( ( It may be that this chain saw is particularly sensitive to even the slightest looseness, way more than my old saw. I have checked to make sure the black screw meshes with the larger wingnut thing.
)

You are dealing with a special Stihl light weight chain. Once properly broke in and tensioned it will last a long time.

If you have the gears meshed and the bar still rocks you have a problem, time for a trip to the dealer. This may be a dumb question, but do you have the tension device properly mounted to the bar??? )

Thanks Kevin. Good question. I do have the tension device properly mounted. I also make sure the tension gear is properly meshed with the larger gear that fits on the bar each time I use it.

I think your point about this being a "lightweight" chain is a good one. With the number of trees I am cutting (probably cut a couple hundred small trees in the past two weeks, something bigger (wider chain) might be the ticket. I just don't know if that's an option with this saw.

I have my saw all cleaned up, checked it thoroughly, put it back together and am going to take both bars and all three chains down to the dealer today to see what they think. While cleaning it out, I tried to mount all three chains to both bars. All three chains are bent at one or two points. So, it is the chains, not the bar. When I get to the dealer, I'll ask him to try to mount a new chain on both bars. My guess is both bars are fine, and he'll be able to do it no problem. I may also ask to trade this model in for something a little more heavy duty--16" with wider gauge chain.

Thanks for your tips everyone. This has been helpful. I'll let you know what the dealer says. They seem pretty sharp there.

proudestmonkey · Jun 6, 2006

( ( It may be that this chain saw is particularly sensitive to even the slightest looseness, way more than my old saw. I have checked to make sure the black screw meshes with the larger wingnut thing.
)

You are dealing with a special Stihl light weight chain. Once properly broke in and tensioned it will last a long time.

If you have the gears meshed and the bar still rocks you have a problem, time for a trip to the dealer. This may be a dumb question, but do you have the tension device properly mounted to the bar??? )

Thanks Kevin. Good question. I do have the tension device properly mounted. I also make sure the tension gear is properly meshed with the larger gear that fits on the bar each time I use it.

I think your point about this being a "lightweight" chain is a good one. With the number of trees I am cutting (probably cut a couple hundred small trees in the past two weeks, something bigger (wider chain) might be the ticket. I just don't know if that's an option with this saw.

I have my saw all cleaned up, checked it thoroughly, put it back together and am going to take both bars and all three chains down to the dealer today to see what they think. While cleaning it out, I tried to mount all three chains to both bars. All three chains are bent at one or two points. So, it is the chains, not the bar. When I get to the dealer, I'll ask him to try to mount a new chain on both bars. My guess is both bars are fine, and he'll be able to do it no problem. I may also ask to trade this model in for something a little more heavy duty--16" with wider gauge chain.

Thanks for your tips everyone. This has been helpful. I'll let you know what the dealer says. They seem pretty sharp there.

bugstruck · Jun 6, 2006

Where's CT Tree Guy when we need him? I can't remember if it's the chain pitch. Mine is .325 (I think) and the larger saws might have .404 chain? Not sure what yours is. They even have a 3/8" chain I think.

Heres a quote from the Oregon Saw chain page: "Note 1: Micro-Lite™ bars are available in two gauges: .043" to be used exclusively with 3/8"-pitch 90SG chain, and .050" gauge to be used exclusively with .325"-pitch 95VP chain. Never install .043"-gauge chain on a .050" gauge bar."

I'm wondering if your experiencing some variation of this? Here's the Oregon link if your interested: Oregon link

There's a good bit to all this bar and chain stuff but a few hours research will sort it out good enough for the normal user. I like the semi and full-chisel chains for faster cutting but they aren't as safe on the kick-back issue.

HTH

bugstruck · Jun 6, 2006

Where's CT Tree Guy when we need him? I can't remember if it's the chain pitch. Mine is .325 (I think) and the larger saws might have .404 chain? Not sure what yours is. They even have a 3/8" chain I think.

Heres a quote from the Oregon Saw chain page: "Note 1: Micro-Lite™ bars are available in two gauges: .043" to be used exclusively with 3/8"-pitch 90SG chain, and .050" gauge to be used exclusively with .325"-pitch 95VP chain. Never install .043"-gauge chain on a .050" gauge bar."

I'm wondering if your experiencing some variation of this? Here's the Oregon link if your interested: Oregon link

There's a good bit to all this bar and chain stuff but a few hours research will sort it out good enough for the normal user. I like the semi and full-chisel chains for faster cutting but they aren't as safe on the kick-back issue.

HTH

Little_Grizzly · Jun 6, 2006

I did not read this whole thread so I appologize if this has already been mentioned.

I noticed in your first post that you are retensioning the chain every 15 minutes or so. It is quite possible you are unwittingly OVERtensioning the chain. I had a relative that was doing exactly what you describe and his chain was popping off sometimes even without cutting! His chain guides (those little bits on the bottom side of the chain that run in the groove) were bent on every chain he owned.

When the chain gets hot it stretches. We all know that. So you tighten it a bit when it's hot and all is well. Standard proceedure. BUT you can go too far. If you continue to tighten as it gets hot this can cause more friction on the chain, which in turn, makes it hotter, which in turn, makes it stretch, etc etc. When that sucker cools down it's going to be way way too tight. What happens then is as the chain is going over the drive sprocket, it bends the guides a little bit. Next thing you know it jumps off the bar all the time.

This may not be your situation but I just thought I'd throw it out there. Try a new chain and only tighten it once as it gets hot. See if that fixes the problem. There should be no reason to retension every 15 minutes. I retention maybe once or twice per year.

Little_Grizzly · Jun 6, 2006

I did not read this whole thread so I appologize if this has already been mentioned.

I noticed in your first post that you are retensioning the chain every 15 minutes or so. It is quite possible you are unwittingly OVERtensioning the chain. I had a relative that was doing exactly what you describe and his chain was popping off sometimes even without cutting! His chain guides (those little bits on the bottom side of the chain that run in the groove) were bent on every chain he owned.

When the chain gets hot it stretches. We all know that. So you tighten it a bit when it's hot and all is well. Standard proceedure. BUT you can go too far. If you continue to tighten as it gets hot this can cause more friction on the chain, which in turn, makes it hotter, which in turn, makes it stretch, etc etc. When that sucker cools down it's going to be way way too tight. What happens then is as the chain is going over the drive sprocket, it bends the guides a little bit. Next thing you know it jumps off the bar all the time.

This may not be your situation but I just thought I'd throw it out there. Try a new chain and only tighten it once as it gets hot. See if that fixes the problem. There should be no reason to retension every 15 minutes. I retention maybe once or twice per year.