Cheap storm shelter?

[Kenneth in Texas]

1500-2000 gallon plastic septic tank (dimensions are pretty big), buried, access hole cut in top with some type metal shop made door that opens in, some type of stairs, pour 4" concrete over the top (say a 10x10 slab) so a tree limb wouldnt puncture it if one fell on top, under $2000

What do you think? Obviously you wont be living in it but should suffice if in path of storm. Ideas? Opinions?

 

[bcp]

Think a lot about water problems.

Make it so water can't get in, and can get out if it does.

And the area needs to drain well, or the tank may decide to float up out of the ground if it gets saturated.

Septic tank tornado shelter photos

Aerobic Tank Pumping + Heavy Rain = Floating Tank | Van Delden Wastewater Systems

Bruce

 

[Kenneth in Texas]

I didnt add, fresh air intake and some kind of electric, either hardwired or 12 volt.

 

[grnspot110]

Plastic septic tanks can be crushed by surrounding soil if not filled with water. I have a smaller one that I use for garden water from the roofs, it has partially crushed!

 

[oosik]

Plastic/fiberglass septic tanks are normally designed to be structurally sound when filled. They are very subject to collapse if buried empty. I would suggest looking for a tank that is designed to maintain its integrity when buried empty. There are fiberglass tanks that are designed to do just that.

Normally, pumping a plastic/fiberglass septic tank is a real PITA. Replacement water must be introduced at the same rate as sewage being pumped out to maintain its integrity.

I would suggest a heavy duty plastic/fiberglass tank designed for empty burial OR a precast cement tank.

 

[Zerk]

You got a deal on a used one?

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm going with above ground. After doing all the pros and cons of going in ground, it made more sense for me. If you go into the ground, you have to deal with the ground and water always trying to push it out or flood it. Then there is getting to it during a storm. Every person that I know with a storm shelter in their yard never uses it when a storm is approaching because it's always at night and raining heavily when the tornado warnings go off.

My goal is to build it in my garage where we can quickly and easily get into it. It will double as a safe and storage place for important items. I have to cutout the concrete slab, but after that, it looks pretty basic to build. So far, the hardest part is going to be clearing out the shelves and stuff that's where it will be built.

http://www.fema.gov/media-library-d...709/FEMA_P-320_2014-ConstructionPlans_508.pdf

 

[haroldy]

Why not buy a shipping container,,cheap ,steel ,secure

 

[BHD]

I made a storm shelter from a old steel tank that had not been used for toxic chemicals,

actually I cut the steel tank in half and used it for the top of the shelter/cellar, it was a 10 foot tank, and I layed block wall and filled and reinforced it with rebar and concrete and pulled th tank on top of the stem wall and welded it down to metal top plated I had welded to the rebar in the wall,

In the back wall of the tank there is bolted on plate for an emergency escape.

 

[BHD]

If I was doing it again I would probably just roll the whole tank in the hole and then either fill with some gravel and pour a floor or put in a floor and make lift out sections for storage under the floor,

some thing like the picture,

 

[2LaneCruzer]

I'm going with above ground. After doing all the pros and cons of going in ground, it made more sense for me. If you go into the ground, you have to deal with the ground and water always trying to push it out or flood it. Then there is getting to it during a storm. Every person that I know with a storm shelter in their yard never uses it when a storm is approaching because it's always at night and raining heavily when the tornado warnings go off.

My goal is to build it in my garage where we can quickly and easily get into it. It will double as a safe and storage place for important items. I have to cutout the concrete slab, but after that, it looks pretty basic to build. So far, the hardest part is going to be clearing out the shelves and stuff that's where it will be built.

http://www.fema.gov/media-library-d...709/FEMA_P-320_2014-ConstructionPlans_508.pdf

I agree. I am skeptical of the in ground shelters, for a couple of reasons. If it's not constructed properly, you can drown if it fills up with water...and they have been known to, especially if it's built under the garage and the house collapses on top of it. Even if it remains dry, debris from the house can trap you until help arrives. I have come to the same conclusion as you; an above ground, built-in-the-garage unit seems to be the safest and most practical.

 

[Soundguy]

Both problems can be mitigated. Water entrance can be helped with how you do the roof, and treat the walls. Any hurried structure under another should have an escape exit clear of falling debris.

An above ground shelter negates 3 reasons for having one.

Visibility

Wind protection: I've seen tornado damaged double block wall small buildings. Rarely do you see tornados digging 10' into the ground to destroy things

Finally, radiation protection.couple thousand pounds of material between you and the bad stuff is pretty much minimum..

 

[Deere Dude]

Block walls are understandably useless again tornadoes. Unless it is poured with a bunch of concrete and rebar and easy to access it is also useless.

I saw some steel panels engineered and rated for tornadoes to be bolted together with a ton of big bolts and bolted down to a thick slab. They are around $5000 but seemed easy to put together. That can be put right in a garage quite easily.

If you are half-way handy you can build a concrete structure like others suggested for probably $1500-2000.

 

[Kenneth in Texas]

What concerns me about above ground shelters is when a house is completely blown away and only the slab remains.

 

[Soundguy]

What concerns me about above ground shelters is when a house is completely blown away and only the slab remains.

Exactly.

I have done demo work after storms, and have cleared rubble from brick and block buildings and have seen 2' thick chunks of brick n mortar hauled off.

I've yet to see a tornado dig down a few feet, then start tearing stuff up. seems like ground down is safe... Just make sure the structure is water safe, and has an escape method that is away from reasonably expected debri. Of course you could always be unlucky and have an escape in a 10 ac open field and a tornado deposit a house from 3 blocks away on your door. but... at least you weren't built under something that was sure to fall on you.

I have also seen plans with doors that can open IN. from there if you keep a prybar, sledge and pickaxe right at the door, you should be able to dig thru common household construction debri to get out IE.. 2x4, sheet rock, 7/16 OSB/shingles, hollow cell blocks.. etc.

 

[sld]

Slab homes around here have a walk in closet made of 8" of reinforced concrete for the walls and ceiling. They also have an air vent that vents outside.

I think these would survive all but an F5. All bets are off with a tornado measuring that size. I have heard of foundations getting sucked out of the ground in the Andover Ks tornado of '91. And then, dirt and debris filled the hole and you couldn't even tell where the house used to be.

 

[grnspot110]

I agree. I am skeptical of the in ground shelters, for a couple of reasons. If it's not constructed properly, you can drown if it fills up with water...and they have been known to, especially if it's built under the garage and the house collapses on top of it. Even if it remains dry, debris from the house can trap you until help arrives. I have come to the same conclusion as you; an above ground, built-in-the-garage unit seems to be the safest and most practical.

An axe should be standard equipment, cheap & much better chance of getting yourself out!

 

[Kenneth in Texas]

Im thinking a survival kit for underground would be mandatory, Axes(s), couple hydraulic jacks, hammers, etc, etc just in case you have to tear your way out. Im sure those above ground shelters would work for minor tornadoes and regular storms but its just in the back of my mind that a f4-5 would come along and clear my slab and i would be found in my above ground shelter 16 miles from my home (

Now another thought I am mulling over is just cutting a hole in my house slab and having an indoor shelter in my living room or back bedroom, im sure a door and stairs could be fabricated for such a thing and then cover the walls and floor with shotcrete or something so it just wouldnt be a dirt hole.

 

[Redneck in training]

I'm going with above ground. After doing all the pros and cons of going in ground, it made more sense for me. If you go into the ground, you have to deal with the ground and water always trying to push it out or flood it. Then there is getting to it during a storm. Every person that I know with a storm shelter in their yard never uses it when a storm is approaching because it's always at night and raining heavily when the tornado warnings go off.

My goal is to build it in my garage where we can quickly and easily get into it. It will double as a safe and storage place for important items. I have to cutout the concrete slab, but after that, it looks pretty basic to build. So far, the hardest part is going to be clearing out the shelves and stuff that's where it will be built.

http://www.fema.gov/media-library-d...709/FEMA_P-320_2014-ConstructionPlans_508.pdf

I agree with Eddie. The problem with outside shelters, even if moderately distant from the house, is that you will try to get there when impossible to get there. The shelter has to be in the house or very close (like few feet) from the house.

Edit: Shipping containers can't be used for storm shelters unless buried. The sheet metal they are made of is too thin to protect you from flying objects.

 

[Soundguy]

I think the location isn't as critics as long as its accessible and local to your usual routine.

I don't set at him waiting for a storm. I'm just as likely to be at work. I can walk to a shelter after parking just as easily as I could walk to the house