Cistern Tank Installation

CurlyDave · Mar 13, 2006

I am wondering what happens if you ever start collecting rainwater from gutters & downspouts, like you mentioned early on.

This is not going to be clean water, lots of dust, bugs, & bird doo.

Is mixing this with your potable water really a good idea?

GuglioLS · Mar 13, 2006

( I am wondering what happens if you ever start collecting rainwater from gutters & downspouts, like you mentioned early on.

This is not going to be clean water, lots of dust, bugs, & bird doo.

Is mixing this with your potable water really a good idea? )

Now that you mention it - yuk - no not a good idea. I am definitely going to have to rethink that plan, Maybe collect the rain water in separate containers and use it only for trees and outside plants.

MikeD74T · Mar 13, 2006

You've obviously put a lot of thought into the system. I originally thought the cistern was only for irrigation. My thought behind the vacuum breaker is: if the tank gets contaminated it can be cleaned as can your household piping. Cleaning a well is another matter. A vacuum breaker is cheap insurance. If you're using one pump in different circuits it may be a moot point.

GuglioLS · Mar 13, 2006

Attached is a schematic of how the basic system works.
We have been using it since this Saturday afternoon 3/11/06. So far so good -.

Farwell · Mar 13, 2006

I have seen similar systems on the Internet. In one of the system I researched, the well pump was a low voltage/low flow pump powered by a solar setup. The pump had a low volume per minute that ran as long as was needed to fill the holding tank. If I remember correctly the water stored in the holding tank would go flat or develop problems of some sort (do not remember what the problem was) but the problem was resolved by using an ozone system. You may want to do some research to make sure that your water remains potable.
I have a tremendous amount of iron in my well and was trying to find out if there was some other system available to help me with the iron problem other than a water softener with salt treated with iron out. Didn't find a system that I liked so I had a new well drilled. The new well is much better but there is still some iron in the water.
I would not allow any other water in your system other than potable water. Catching rain water (if it ever rains in your area again) and using it for crop or lawn watering is a great idea but it needs a separate system in my opinion. If you go the separate system for watering, you may be able to add your grey water to the system as well. I sometimes wonder if rain water of today is of the same quality as the rain water our Grand parents collected in their cisterns?
I think your project was very well done and love your project photos and explanations.
Farwell

Jimbrown · Mar 13, 2006

Well I can just not understand why you have a pressure tank between the cistern and the well just does not make sense. The pressure tank needs to be between the jet pump and the house. If not the jet pump is going to cycle on and off at very short intervals and fail very quickely. They are not designed for that. The pressure tank needs to be after the jet pump and allow the pressure tank to service the house as it would in any normal situation. It should look like this.

hilld · Mar 13, 2006

I am in the process of having a similar system installed, not for lack of water, but because the county made me put in a fire sprinker system and my well could not provide adequate water for the requirements of the system. I needed 35 gals at 60 psi for 10 minutes to supply 2 heads (minimum requirement), however, my well only provided 10 gal/min at 45 psi.

The inground cistern is concrete and holds 1500 gals (I know overkill), but I want to be able to irrigate the "back 40" at one point or another. The way my system now works, the well pump feeds the cistern (no pressure tank), open system. Another pump (higher capacity) in the cistern feeds the house and fire sprinker system. The pressure tank is connected between the house and the cistern, it has been removed from the original setup between the well and the house.

Derek

GuglioLS · Mar 13, 2006

( Well I can just not understand why you have a pressure tank between the cistern and the well just does not make sense. The pressure tank needs to be between the jet pump and the house. If not the jet pump is going to cycle on and off at very short intervals and fail very quickely. They are not designed for that. The pressure tank needs to be after the jet pump and allow the pressure tank to service the house as it would in any normal situation. It should look like this. )

I have to respectfully disagree with that logic. Maybe you should CLICK HERE to learn about modern jet pumps, these jet pumps are designed for multiple cycles per hour.
The well can produce maybe 2-3 gallons a minuet with about 40-50 gallons reserve until it has to recharge. The jet pump has it’s own bladder pressure tank and is a Grundfos pump, very high quality, it is designed to cycle. The submersible pump it the one I really want to protect from multiple cycles and not running dry. Who wants to pull a submersible pump out of a well due to over cycling? No one except maybe a well service company. Having the pressure tank on the well and SLOWLY discharging the water into the cistern over a long period of time, ensures that the submersible will not cycle excessively and that the well will not go dry, overheating the pump.

dubba · Mar 14, 2006

( The jet pump has it’s own bladder pressure tank )

I don't think he meant to incite, You just left that part out of the diagram because it is a part of your pump. Some jet pumps have a separate tank, Mine has 2. Every system is different

Knight9 · Mar 14, 2006

( Now that you mention it - yuk - no not a good idea. I am definitely going to have to rethink that plan, Maybe collect the rain water in separate containers and use it only for trees and outside plants )

Lots of folks use in ground cisterns to capture rain water. The only key is to ensure that you are screening the water before it enters the tank. This can be done at the downspouts or even at the top of the tank. Screens need to be removable so they can be cleaned. Works like a charm /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kevin

mike223 · Mar 14, 2006

I am going to install a similar system on my well in TN. The well is 240', has a 65' static column, and yields 7 gpm. I'm going to irrigate some, so the well/pump company recommended a cistern/holding tank. They plan on using a 1500 G concrete cistern vice poly. Is there any advantage of one over the other?

GuglioLS · Mar 14, 2006

(
Lots of folks use in ground cisterns to capture rain water. The only key is to ensure that you are screening the water before it enters the tank. This can be done at the downspouts or even at the top of the tank. Screens need to be removable so they can be cleaned. Works like a charm /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kevin )

Thanks Kevin,
I visited our local WaterMart they sell the screens & collection tanks exactly like you are talking about.

GuglioLS · Mar 14, 2006

( ..... Is there any advantage of one over the other? )

I am not an expert on one vs the other.
I choose Poly over concrete because poly is light and I was able to purchase the Poly tank on eBay at a savings of about $600 over what a local dealer was asking, had it delivered to my door and still saved $600, I didn't have to pay any state sales tax. The tank is warranted for 7 years from the manufacturer. The Poly tank is one piece molded and can be buried to a depth no greater than 3 feet above the TOP of the tank. I would imagine the concrete tanks can be buried much deeper. I would ask what kind or warranty and what the advantages are of concrete.

Good luck with your system

CurlyDave · Mar 14, 2006

Lots of folks use in ground cisterns to capture rain water. The only key is to ensure that you are screening the water before it enters the tank. This can be done at the downspouts or even at the top of the tank. Screens need to be removable so they can be cleaned. Works like a charm

This works fine for irrigation water, but the screens do not make the rain water safe to drink.

Think about how long your roof goes between rainstorms. Dust, dead bugs and bird doo happen. In some places small rodents, mice, rats & squirrels also scamper across the roof. All of this gets washed down with the rain water. Screens will keep larger debris out of the water, and prevent clogging the distribution system, but do not remove smaller debris and bacteria.

Knight9 · Mar 15, 2006

Absolutely correct that screens don't make the water safe to drink. But the garden, trees and flowers sure love it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Much better than the shockingly cold well water or regular drinking water from a cistern. I guess if you had to drink it, you could add some purification system or something. In an emergency pinch you could probably boil it if you lost your well or regular water.

Kevin

sodamo · Mar 16, 2006

Great project and I see you have a great helper/supervisor as I am lucky to have.

Tomorrow I will take delivery on 4 poly tanks, 4K gallon capacity each. These will be our catchment tanks (cistern) for the new house. We have a smaller, 3k system here at the little house, water passes through a 3 stage filter system and add some chlorine to kill the bad stuff and its as good as town water.

Here is some info: Water Catchment Systems

I intend to dig an area 20' X 20' X 4' to set the tanks, recessed, but not buried. Hopefully, our pics will tell the story and I'll post when done.

My neighbor tells me we've had 20something inches of rain so far this month - not exactly your situation /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

David

slowzuki · Mar 16, 2006

Where my father in law grew up everyone used a cistern. My brother in law inherited the small family house. We stayed there one night and got the old pump going and I forgot and used the water to brush my teeth.

Next day we figured we should take a look in the cistern in the basement. THREE DEAD RATS FLOATING IN THE WATER! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Luckily I was ok but we didn't drink no more water /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Cliff_Johns · Mar 16, 2006

You know, it does occurr to me that if you are low on water and you get some rain, there will be an awful lot of upward force on that Cistern. You might find it comming out of the ground like a submarine comes out of the water.

Cliff

GuglioLS · Mar 16, 2006

(
You know, it does occurr to me that if you are low on water and you get some rain, there will be an awful lot of upward force on that Cistern. You might find it comming out of the ground like a submarine comes out of the water.

Cliff )

Point well taken, The manufacturer states the tank is not suitable for wet areas. I have considered that possibility and decided that will never happen. The soil would have to be completely saturated 7 feet down - something that most likely will never happen (at least not in my life time) in New Mexico. As a preventive measure though, I plan on covering the area over and around the tank with poly film and some rock / wood chip landscaping - to help prevent driving over the tank and to reduce frost depth.

GuglioLS · Mar 16, 2006

( ..............Tomorrow I will take delivery on 4 poly tanks, 4K gallon capacity each. ...............................My neighbor tells me we've had 20something inches of rain so far this month - not exactly your situation /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

David
)
Wow - thats a huge system you are installing. I look forward to reading your post on that project. I have been hearing & seeing in the news about all the rains, flooding and dam busting going on there in HI. Stay HI and Dry,
Good luck with your project.

Aloha,

Larry G