Commercial Use?

[Diggin It]

Residential Construction may fall under 'small business' the same as landscapers and electrical or plumbing contractors who would be doing essentially the same types of digging, trenching and moving dirt, debris or equipment around a site.

And as noted, 'commercial construction' does not appear to be fully excluded. It only shortens the terms of coverage.

 

[MossRoad]

Residential Construction may fall under 'small business' the same as landscapers and electrical or plumbing contractors who would be doing essentially the same types of digging, trenching and moving dirt, debris or equipment around a site.

And as noted, 'commercial construction' does not appear to be fully excluded. It only shortens the terms of coverage.

As it reads

"* Definition of Non-Institutional Use: RK Tractors Equipment and associated products that is purchased and exclusivily used for per- sonal, consumer type of homeowner usage, non-institutional farming or other small business use which does not include demolition, paving, bulldozing, mining, quarry operations, commercial construction, gravel yard or commercial forestry operations."

demolition: removal of razed material, like broken boards, drywall, concrete, roofing, etc... tearing out a paved driveway is considered demolition
paving: besides asphalt and concrete, rocks are considered paving
bulldozing: that's pushing earth
mining: that's digging undisturbed earth and selling any of it, rocks, sand, gravel... etc.
quarry operations: don't know the definition of quarrying
commercial construction: that's building structures for hire
gravel yard: self explanitory
commercial forestry operations: harvest of timber for lumber, firewood, other wood products for sale


That's the kinds of things you have to wonder if you do and something fails, will it be covered under warranty? Having not read too many tractor warranties, or never having to make a warranty claim on a tractor used in a business, it's just something I'd be interested in if I was purchasing a machine of any make or model.

So in the OP's original post, it's something for the potential purchaser to consider and study before purchasing, IF it is important to him. It might just be the cost of doing business. Up to him.

 

[MossRoad]

Residential Construction may fall under 'small business' the same as landscapers and electrical or plumbing contractors who would be doing essentially the same types of digging, trenching and moving dirt, debris or equipment around a site.

And as noted, 'commercial construction' does not appear to be fully excluded. It only shortens the terms of coverage.

The way I'm reading it, the warranty for small business is two years, unless you perform:

"demolition, paving, bulldozing, mining, quarry operations, commercial construction, gravel yard or commercial forestry operations"

If you do any of those tasks, there appears to be no warranty coverage.

Is that not what it's saying?

 

[Diggin It]

That's the kinds of things you have to wonder if you do and something fails, will it be covered under warranty? Having not read too many tractor warranties, or never having to make a warranty claim on a tractor used in a business, it's just something I'd be interested in if I was purchasing a machine of any make or model.

As I read it, they would be covered for the first two years. After that is in question.

 

[Trillium Farm]

Another question would be is the unit's warranty covered for commercial work? Good thing to find out ahead of time.

BINGO !!!

 

[Diggin It]

The way I'm reading it, the warranty for small business is two years, unless you perform:

"demolition, paving, bulldozing, mining, quarry operations, commercial construction, gravel yard or commercial forestry operations"

If you do any of those tasks, there appears to be no warranty coverage.

Is that not what it's saying?

Cross posted. No, not as I see it. They'd be covered for the first two years under 'All Other Use'. The exclusions noted come into play after that.


Bottom line is that the policy could be MUCH more clearly stated. As we can see in this thread, it's too ambiguous and leaves too much to interpretation.

There's a line credited to either MacArthur or Eisenhower, can't recall which: 'Don't give orders that can be understood. Give orders that cannot be misunderstood."

 

[MossRoad]

...The exclusions noted come into play after that.
...

No they don't. The asterisk is listed well before the "All Other Use".

 

[Diggin It]

But the phrase you're leaning on is " Definition of Non-Institutional Use:" which doesn't appear to include either 'Government' or 'All Other Use'.

Hopefully RK Tractor Guy will respond with a more complete post than his previous one above.

 

[MossRoad]

But the phrase you're leaning on is " Definition of Non-Institutional Use:" which doesn't appear to include either 'Government' or 'All Other Use'.

Hopefully RK Tractor Guy will respond with a more complete post than his previous one above.

Agreed. :thumbsup:

 

[Tennsawdust]

But the phrase you're leaning on is " Definition of Non-Institutional Use:" which doesn't appear to include either 'Government' or 'All Other Use'.

Hopefully RK Tractor Guy will respond with a more complete post than his previous one above.

The way I read it that line is there to define Non-Institutional Use and define what would be considered excluded from the "Government and Non-Institutional Use" section. Anything else would then fall under the "Any Other Use" category, which limits engine warranty period for those users. As I read it, commercial use would fall under the "Any Other Use" category and be subject to those warranty terms.

At any rate, the subject of our discussion was apparently happy with what the salesman at the store told him because he has ordered the tractor. He seemed to be very happy with his experience with them so far.

 

[RK Tractor Guy]

All, let me try to put it all in practical, not legal terms. A tractor with backhoe and/or loader for example can be used to dig a hole for a swimming pool or pond, help clear land on your property, move dirt or gravel, dig out stumps, etc. But doing that every day for a living can take the duty cycle to extreme limits for a tractor, and is better handled with construction equipment, which is inherently commercial by design and use. Our warranty statement is meant to address that distinction, and the wording we use is based upon industry precedent, not anything unique. In other words, dig your pond with a tractor, but if you dig ponds for a living, get an excavator, or accept a reduced warranty period. Hope that helps.

 

[Diggin It]

All, let me try to put it all in practical, not legal terms. A tractor with backhoe and/or loader for example can be used to dig a hole for a swimming pool or pond, help clear land on your property, move dirt or gravel, dig out stumps, etc. But doing that every day for a living can take the duty cycle to extreme limits for a tractor, and is better handled with construction equipment, which is inherently commercial by design and use. Our warranty statement is meant to address that distinction, and the wording we use is based upon industry precedent, not anything unique. In other words, dig your pond with a tractor, but if you dig ponds for a living, get an excavator, or accept a reduced warranty period. Hope that helps.

That appears to be what we've been saying. So, in the example given, the contractor using it on sites of homes being built WILL have coverage for the first two years, correct?

Still suggest the warranty policy page to be edited to be more clear.

 

[RTBee]

So... where do you draw the line? How much is too much? Are you a contractor that uses his machine every day? Or are you a small business that uses it occasionally? Can you use it in a landscaping business, where you need to move around mulch in flower beds or the backhoe in building retaining walls? What if your neighbor asks you to dig a drainage ditch and offers to pay you for it? Is that commercial? Does it void, or limit your warranty? What about Outdoors with the Morgans? Mike uses his tractors for "forestry operations". Logging his woods, for firewood that he sells. Does that limit the warranty? It all seems a little vague and cloudy. It's easy to see the extremes in either direction, but what about the gray areas in between? And I suppose this is an true of any tractor with a warranty, not just RK.

 

[RK Tractor Guy]

So... where do you draw the line? How much is too much? Are you a contractor that uses his machine every day? Or are you a small business that uses it occasionally? Can you use it in a landscaping business, where you need to move around mulch in flower beds or the backhoe in building retaining walls? What if your neighbor asks you to dig a drainage ditch and offers to pay you for it? Is that commercial? Does it void, or limit your warranty? What about Outdoors with the Morgans? Mike uses his tractors for "forestry operations". Logging his woods, for firewood that he sells. Does that limit the warranty? It all seems a little vague and cloudy. It's easy to see the extremes in either direction, but what about the gray areas in between? And I suppose this is an true of any tractor with a warranty, not just RK.

A farmer uses a tractor for farming, which is his business, a commercial operation. Farmers get the full warranty. No one would say that commercial farming would be excluded. Logging is not Mike Morgan cutting firewood and selling some of it. The gray area is divided by common sense. Warranty policy is inherently a bit cloudy, there are inclusions, exclusions, responsibilities of the manufacturer and the customer. The real measure is when the customer believes that they are being taken care of. Citing things like paving, demolition, logging as industries is applying a little of that common sense before the purchase. As you say, every brand has language like that in its warranty statements and the tractor business has rolled along fine with it for a long time. The best advice I can give to anyone comparing warranties is to look at duration, for any deductibles, if both parts and labor are included. RK has the longest powertrain warranty, no deductibles, parts and labor included for all years covered. If anyone can find any other tractor brand with an 8 year powertrain warranty, please share it.

 

[RTBee]

I appreciate that! Also one of the reasons (among many) that I chose RK. Any company that's willing to stand behind their products goes a long way with me. Common sense should go a long way. Seems to be in short supply these days. A hand shake should be enough but, sad to say, that's not as easy to find either. Thanks for weighing in.

 

[Tennsawdust]

A farmer uses a tractor for farming, which is his business, a commercial operation. Farmers get the full warranty. No one would say that commercial farming would be excluded. Logging is not Mike Morgan cutting firewood and selling some of it. The gray area is divided by common sense. Warranty policy is inherently a bit cloudy, there are inclusions, exclusions, responsibilities of the manufacturer and the customer. The real measure is when the customer believes that they are being taken care of. Citing things like paving, demolition, logging as industries is applying a little of that common sense before the purchase. As you say, every brand has language like that in its warranty statements and the tractor business has rolled along fine with it for a long time. The best advice I can give to anyone comparing warranties is to look at duration, for any deductibles, if both parts and labor are included. RK has the longest powertrain warranty, no deductibles, parts and labor included for all years covered. If anyone can find any other tractor brand with an 8 year powertrain warranty, please share it.

It's probably worth noting that even for commercial use, the warranty is better than what others offer. Kubota for instance covers 2 years / 1500 hours for basic standard and 3 years / 2000 hours for limited powertrain for commercial operation. Both of those figures are less hours than covered by the RK warranty. That is something else for a prospective buyer to consider when cross-shopping. More tractor for your money and better warranty. How is that not worth a look?

 

[Cataclysm]

Just curious if anyone on the board is using their RK tractor for commercial use? I have a friend who is a residential contractor that is looking at the RK37 for jobsite use. He needs something to move materials around the jobsites, dig the occasional footer or open up foundations for re-sealing. A mini-ex would be perfect for the digging, but it can't move a pallet of brick, level a backfill or spread gravel. The payment on a fully loaded RK37 is less than he is paying in repositioning fees to have equipment on site for those types of jobs. Is anyone out there using an RK in daily commercial use?

I'm late to the game since your friend has already ordered his tractor. I'll throw in my 2 cents anyways.

Assuming your friend operates it with common sense that tractor is going work well for him. Versatility with a reasonable price tag is a key to reduce over head in a small business.

Sure, dedicated construction equipment will move more dirt and last longer. A small business can't always afford the perfect machine for each job. And if they could afford it, add in the time and cost to move all that equipment around.

For your friends intended use it sounds right on. I bet he will wonder why he didn't buy something like this sooner.

 

[Tennsawdust]

I'm late to the game since your friend has already ordered his tractor. I'll throw in my 2 cents anyways.

Assuming your friend operates it with common sense that tractor is going work well for him. Versatility with a reasonable price tag is a key to reduce over head in a small business.

Sure, dedicated construction equipment will move more dirt and last longer. A small business can't always afford the perfect machine for each job. And if they could afford it, add in the time and cost to move all that equipment around.

For your friends intended use it sounds right on. I bet he will wonder why he didn't buy something like this sooner.

I think the key there is that it is very versatile (look at all the construction related attachments available for SSQA and 3 point). The other major key is that heavier equipment can be rented or hired when needed, as he is currently doing. I think he will find that it will easily pay for itself. It isn't an excavator, but it can dig a respectable trench. It isn't a commercial loader, but it can move some material around. It is also the perfect tool to whip the lawn back into shape after that room addition is done. He's definitely going to wonder why he didn't buy it sooner.

 

[Tennsawdust]

Since it has been about a year I thought an update might be in order. The tractor has a few hundred hours on it now. The only part replacement has been the three way valve, which was damaged by a tree. The owner said it took some fussing to get the store to finally order the part for him, but the warehouse shipped it right away after he finally got them in gear. The normal service has been done by a local heavy equipment service shop. They are much closer than the store and have quick turn-around. They have had no issues getting filters, etc.

The owner is very happy with the tractor and it's abilities. Of the backhoe he said that although it's reach won't compete with an excavator "It will dig!". He figures the foundation work he did on his own house would have involved at least $30K in excavation costs, so as far as he is concerned it has already paid for itself. He has also done several other foundation jobs for his customers, which the RK37 was able to handle. It has proven to be very useful on the job site. He sometimes wishes he had bought the RK55, but then it would require an HD pickup to tow, where the RK37, even with the backhoe mounted, can be towed behind any of his trucks. It also fits into places the RK55 wouldn't.

One concern he ran across was with the canopy. The fastening system allowed it to be knocked loose by tree limbs. That presented an issue because the tractor is regularly towed on highways and he was concerned it could come loose in transit and hit a car behind. A couple of U bolts were added to securely attach the canopy to the ROPS.

Overall the RK37 has done exactly what he wanted it to do with basically no fuss. He no longer has to wait days for a sub to show up to dig a hole. Money well spent.