Concealed Weapons Good Or Bad?

Conservative1 · Jan 13, 2004

First of all, I didn't stop at taking the required class, and my wife agreed to more training though she is a VERY busy lady.
I have taken two unarmed self defense classes, in which I learned a LOT of great info. I have also taken Advanced instruction from an NRA certified police firearms instructor. It went into things like not jumping out in front of him with your gun at your side... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I've also read several of Massad Ayoobs books... VERY informative reading.
The single best thing a permittee can do is constantly mindset. Mindsetting means asking yourself "what would I do if..." For instance, what would I do if a truck pulled up in the driveway, and two thug looking guys got out with no guns visible? running out with an shotgun isn't the best course of action here...
It prepares you for any event that you consider. Do this often. Strong on Defense, by retired police officer Sanford Strong, is a WONDERFUL book to learn more about this.

On "letting the police do their job..." I agree to a point. However, I live 25 minutes outside town. There are 2 Sheriff's deputies living within 10 minutes here... 10 minutes is the SOONEST they could get here, assuming they were dressed, on duty, and heard the call on the radio. In 10 minutes, I can be shot dead, my wife can be raped and/or killed, and my truck stolen. All that can happen in 4 minutes. 911 here is hit or miss... best case scenario, they MIGHT be able to get here in 3 minutes. We can be maimed, beaten, raped, and left for dead in that time, and the thug(s) will live to find another victim... unless I am armed, and properly trained- Which is why I am.
Even 60 seconds is a long time...which is how long it takes just for me to get to the phone, lock the door, and dial the telephone. Add another 45 seconds for the overworked operator to take my call, and 20 seconds for him to get it out on the radio. That's 2 minutes and 5 seconds... a LONG time.
Police are good for responding, but they have their limits. Basically, they'll respond in time to bag us up, take statements, and start an investigation. They can't be everywhere at once.
I respect everyone's right to their own decisions. I don't think everyone has what it takes to own a gun, and take a life in self defense. Those people should not carry a gun. It's worthless to carry if you can't use it for whatever reason.
I just hope those people don't hold it against me if I take a life to protect theirs or mine.
BTW- my tractor's green!
Respectfully,
Conservative1

OkeeDon · Jan 13, 2004

How many are as responsible as you? My guess is, not very many. My experience backs this up.

I've never even thought about the scenarios you mention, let alone had a mindset, yet I've never been robbed, beaten, maimed, had my wife raped, or been left for dead, and I'm obviously still alive after 63 years.

If a truck pulled up in my driveway and two thug-looking guys got out, I wouldn't run out with a shotgun, either -- but I might wait to hear their story, and find out what they wanted was to see if the trailer in the yard was for sale -- this has happened to me, more than once.

Remember this story?

On Oct. 17, 1992, Yoshi Hattori and Webb Haymaker were on their way to a Halloween party.

Yoshi, who studied jazz and tap dance after school, wore a white tuxedo and a ruffled shirt; he was John Travolta from "Saturday Night Fever." Webb, who had been in a car accident and wore a neck brace, added to the "accident victim" costume by bandaging his head.

They knocked at the wrong house. When nobody answered, they began to walk away, according to news accounts.

But when a man appeared at the door, Yoshi started back, smiling and waving. He may have thought the people were playing a Halloween prank, Webb said later. He may have thought the .44 magnum handgun pointed at him was a toy.

"Freeze!" the man said, but Yoshi didn't understand that use of the word and kept advancing. The man fired one shot, hitting Yoshi in the chest, and Yoshi fell to the ground. Webb ran to him. "What happened?" Yoshi asked. He died a short time later.

The man who shot Yoshi told police that he thought he was defending his home and family. He was charged with manslaughter but was found not guilty.

8NTX · Jan 13, 2004

RDAM said:( many people have all ready given statistics that show a positive, or at worst, nuetral effect of concealed carry laws. We all agree that the bad guys will carry guns regardless of the law.

So, here's something that is not often discussed. If a person feels the need to get a CWP, and the person feels better because they are carrying a gun, then the quality of life of that individual is positively effected in no small way. Even if they never have to pull out the gun. This is not insignificant, especially to people who live, work, or travel through high crime areas.

I am an AVID supporter of the 2nd amendment and legal CCW )

I agree with these sentiments 100%. I do have my CCW, and nearly always carry a pistol in my truck. I carry about half the time in my pocket, depending on where I am. I just got a small Kel-Tec .380 that easily fits into the front pocket of my jeans, or in my jacket pocket and I almost forget it's there. Peace of mind is priceless. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

BillyP · Jan 13, 2004

You guys might as well call it a draw, before it goes haywire.

Everyone has their own opinion and can back it up with News stories.

PineRidge · Jan 13, 2004

Years ago when I was 22 or 23 I was sitting in a Pizza Shop located in Akron, Ohio with a friend of mine by the name of Chett. The restaurant was in a pretty nice area of North Hill and it was about 3 PM and the lunch crowd was gone as we sat in a booth eating our Pizza.

A young man, smelling of booze, wandered up to our booth and accused us of following him earlier. He accused us of wanting to beat him with a lead pipe. Chett and I were dumbfounded and told the guy he was drunk and to get lost. He turned, and wandered out of the restaurant muttering something under his breath.

Not more than 5 minutes later in walks a clean cut looking guy that walks straight to our booth and asks us if we had been following his younger brother earlier in the day? I spoke up first and shouldn’t have because before I knew what was happening this guy shoved a revolver right in my face. From that point on Chett did most of the talking. When he was satisfied that we were not out to get his younger brother he put the gun in his jacket turned and quietly walked out of the restaurant as if nothing had happened.

The only noise I could hear was my heart pounding. The manager was already on the phone with the Akron Police Department. Chett and I waited no more than 60 seconds and we were out of that restaurant and out of that part of town in record time!

If I had a gun at that time I am convinced that any move for it would have cost me my life as well as maybe Chett and the storeowner as well.

That is as close as I ever want to be to the business end of a weapon in my lifetime.

RanchMan · Jan 13, 2004

How many are as responsible as you? My guess is, not very many. My experience backs this up.


I find it interesting you choose to stereotype CHL holders in such a way based on your "experience" - especially since you in an earlier post admitted you don't know very many people who have concealed carry permits.

Based on the CHL holders who have responded on this thread alone, if you included them in your "dataset" of "typical" license holders, I'd expect you to state something just the opposite of what you have with regards to such individuals being "responsible."

RanchMan · Jan 13, 2004

If I had a gun at that time I am convinced that any move for it would have cost me my life as well as maybe Chett and the storeowner as well. 

I sure hope they caught that guy and put him in jail for a long time. "Defending" his brother or not, he was obviously guilty of Assault with a Deadly Weapon and deserved to get sent up the river for it.

Sometimes it might not make sense to draw your weapon even if your life IS in danger. However, the scenario could have unfolded very differently where you may not have been as luck as you were and having a gun could have saved your life. (An incident here @ a Luby's Cafeteria springs to mind.)

Fortunately your friend "talked" your way out of it (which, incidentally is yet another thing they stress in the Texas CHL class - how to verbally defray a confrontation.) Having a concealed handgun on you widens (substantially) your ability to defend yourself - but it is not a guarantee of anything.

I'm glad things worked out, and hopefully based on the responses to date, you have a better "feel" for the "typical" type of person who goes after a CHL.

OkeeDon · Jan 13, 2004

Ranch Man, if you look at my earlier posts, you'll see that I give a good deal of credit to all the folks on TBN who are responsible gun owners. My question was, "How many folks are as responsible as you?" The question was to someone who I respect for having gone way above and beyond the average in terms of training and thinking about his use of a concealed weapon. I sincerely doubt that the majority of gun owners have done as much to plan for the eventuality of having to use a weapon. That's not to disparage the others, but to give credit to Conservative1 and the other TBN'ers who have been thoughtful about the responsibility. If most gun owners were like them, I'd have absolutely no fear of anyone with a weapon. But, I don't believe that's the case, and I have plenty of life experience with less responsible people to back up my belief.

If I could wave a magic wand, there would be no guns in the world anymore, none, in the hands of no one, thugs or not. And, when we need meat, the animals would just fall over dead for us. Then, me and my magic wand could go looking for the next worst threat - knives or cars or such. But, that's obviously absurd, so we all go our own ways with our own fears...some fear the thugs, I fear the well meaning idiot with a legal gun.

RanchMan · Jan 13, 2004

But, I don't believe that's the case, and I have plenty of life experience with less responsible people to back up my belief. 

Unfortunately we are getting back in to the same groove as on an earlier thread where you stated your dislike for firearms - your "life experience" vs. others and what makes one more "right" than another.

Suffice to say, I do not concur with your statement that MOST gun owners are irresponsible - in fact, just the opposite. Have I encountered the occasional "idiot" as you describe - yes. But they are not the "majority" of gun owners as you seem to think.

I know you won't change your mind on this, but neither will I - of course, I'd venture to say my dataset of exposure to folks who own/use guns is probably a bit larger than yours, hence why I'm more comfortable with my "life experience" with regards to this subject than yours.

OkeeDon · Jan 13, 2004

Fair enough. But, remember that I live in South Florida and live with the other folks in South Florida, and I suspect that my dataset is somewhat different than yours. I'm not trying to establish that I'm more "right" than anyone, or vice versa, just that my opinion is acknowledged and not disparaged. You, among others, have done that, and I thank you. I respect your opinion, as well, and readily concede that you may well be correct regarding the folks you know.