Concrete house

[sandman2234]

Newly purchased S/S safety wire bought for the job at hand should have no kinks in it, so that makes it 3 things wrong with S/S.
I wasn't thinking about using it in a plastic pipe. Although I have plastic in my garage, most of my experience has been with steel conduit, so the wire doesn't hurt the metal no matter how many curves you pulll it around. So for my use, down to 2 things.
S/S chips will cut you, and you never even realize it. Having a couple of lathes, and even more milling machines in my garage, (hobby use) I can vouch for that. However, I have never, ever been cut by a piece of safety wire. Not sure if it is the alloy, or the fact that all corners are curved, but a round piece of safety wire usually only cuts on the end, which is sharp.
Wire correctly manufactured should have no camber and an appropriate cast for the size of the wire and the spool it is wound onto. The roll of safety wire I have has a 34" cast, meaning if you cut several feet of it, and then remove one loop of it, as it is lying on the ground, the circle it makes has a 34" diameter. The cast is the amount one end raises up off the floor. Having been in the QA end of a wire manufacturer for the last 7 years of a 15 year employment, I am able to recognise good and bad wire charactistics.
I was just thinking that when you start to pull all the wires in a single run, just add a piece of safety wire and it will be there long after any string I have ever dealt with. Pulling the safety wire after the run has been energized is not a consideration, and pulling new wires thru it while anything is still hot is asking for trouble. People do it all the time, but not with residential electrical.
David from jax

 

[sandman2234]

Many years ago, probably 1975, I worked for a pretress concrete company that built and erected a building with CIC prestess wall panels. The panels were the normal 24" double "T" like you see in a lot of roof panels, but standing on end. Before we stripped them out of the bed where they are poured, we added a 4" layer of foam, then added additional sides to the form and poured another 6" of concrete over the foam.
Later we built another larger one, using what is known as a Lin T form.
The owner of the wire company had his house built completely with prestressed concrete, and it is still standing out at Jax Beach. Good planning is required with prestressed concrete, because you can't just drill a hole anywhere you want without effecting the integrity of the unit.
David from jax

 

[patrick_g]

Paddy, I prefer the "we don't have to lock our doors" concept but it just is not practical anymore in most places. Regretable but true. Although I had designed some alarm systems they were for commercial and special projects and I never had any sort of intruder alarm till after the turn of the century. I think it is prudent to have as is insurance but hope it never has to work.

We have concealed carry permits too and hope to never ever NEED a weapon for personal protection. Well... my wife PACKS when going out in the backyard to fill the bird feeding stations because of the number of sightings of mountain lions in our yard in the middle of the day and I fantasize about bagging a big kitty close to the house. (Note: We have a dozen calves that are a smorgasbord for a puma.)

Regarding my comments on SS wire for pulling cable. I was thinking the small stranded stuff and it will sure as heck substitute for a saw.

I had electricians out who had a commercial fuzzball on a string and it blew/sucked through conduit pretty nicely when powered by a small shopvac. I had run my string before in conduit thte OLD FASHIONED WAY by tieing a hex nut on the end and putting it through each length of conduit by gravity and centrifugal force in turn before they were joined. Boy oh boy the vacuum and fuzzball are certainly superior!

I certainly am no ICF bigot and think we should build using whatever methodology is provident and affordable. While a typical cinderblock house is not a thing of great beauty, to me, if it is coated in stucco you can't tell it is blocks and in some climates (and economic or environmental considerations prevent continuous running mechanical systems) you want to REDUCE the R factor and increase the infiltration. A sprawling block home with maximum surface (within reason) for the enclosed volume and jalosie windows nearly "locks" the home into the climate with just a little averaging due to the blocks thermal mass.

A very important influence on the applicatioin of "NEW" technology is the economical availability of experienced practitioners. In many instances it would seem around here that anything more complicated than slip joint pliers is HIGH TECH.

Patrick_G

 

[scott_vt]

While a typical cinderblock house is not a thing of great beauty, to me, if it is coated in stucco you can't tell it is blocks and in some climates (and economic or environmental considerations prevent continuous running mechanical systems) you want to REDUCE the R factor and increase the infiltration.

Patrick_G

Mornin Patrick,
All I wanted to add was that my parents built a block home in the northeast in 1950, it was covered with white stucco and actually didnt look bad at all. The home was virtually maintainence free and was quite tight for its day. This was very unconventional for a residential building in that time frame, for that local ! The home was an L shaped ranch that had its windows installed high on the surrounding walls except for the large picture windows overlooking the rear patio. Even at that time my Pop took advantage of the solar energy, because the sun poured in those windows durring the daylight hours !

 

[Paddy]

Patrick G,

I think the CIC and ICF will be close in price. Do you recall the material cost of your ICF forms on a per sq-ft bases? If I use Dow 2" foam from the big box stores at $22.50 per sheet, that's $0.70/sq-ft times 3 layers to get 6" = $2.10 a sq-ft plus the cost of a $1.25 fiberglass tie, $3.35/sq-ft. For ICFs you pay to have them stacked and poured. With CIC, you pay to have walls formed around the foam and poured. The price to have convential walls formed at 8" thick 10' tall and running foot is approx, $75.00 or $7.50 a square foot. Each square foot requires;
8/12'x 1'x1'= 0.6667 sq-ft of concrete. With concrete cost $90 a a cubic yard or $3.33 per cubic ft. Then 0.6667x $3.33=$2.22 a wall sq-ft. The formers are getting over $5.00 a square ft to form and pour (for labor). So for your average 30'x40' bacement, 140 running foot and 1400 sq-ft, the contractor is charging $7000 + for labor. OK, this usally includes the footer/steel, so let's take off $2k. These guys seem to get in and out in just a few days with 3-4 guys. Sounds like someone is making money.

Since I will be pouring in stages, basements wall, slab, second floor, second set of walls and roof, I will likely buy a set of used forms and pour myself. Well, have my crew pour. This way I can take my time to get the foam, R-bar and ele in place for each pour. At the end of the job, sell the forms.

Since I have had a hard time finding any one intersted in bidding this, I will be working with a GC willing to take this on T&M. He likes the idea of having the forms at his ready. His crew consists of 4-5 guys all above 38 years old. No dumb kids turned loose! They like doing these owner driven projects vs tract homes. As stated a few posts back, they have done a few ICFs, so they are capable.

By the way, did you check out the stats on the CIC from the ORNL site? If you dig a bit, you will see an area where raw data is presented. Neat stuff. It's a big site so if you need "directions" how to find it, let me know. I would appreciate your feed back on the data with your Physics/engineering/school of hard knocks back ground.

Patrick M

 

[BobRip]

As for the "ideal" building envelope, there are always trade-offs with costs
and compromises in other areas. The best for one criterion is not the
best for another. Why ICFs are so good is that they provide very high
benefits with fairly low cost impact.

I agree. My 30 dollars average heating and cooling bill for a 3500 square foot house seems low enought. My base of $100 is too high. Some of that may be from the blower.

One of the things that we really like is low sound level, both coming from outside (we barely hear storms), and sound that is generated inside is minimal. The house also seems "warm" even when you are near walls and ceiling. ICF was about the same cost as six inch wood walls, but a whole lot more energy efficient.
Was the analysis comparing the various walls based upon actual construction or just theoretical analysis? Was credit given for the concrete pulling heat from the ground in the winter and sending heat into the ground during the summer. This increase the effrective R value.

 

[Paddy]

You should see the study your self but, actual wall sections were built. What do you mean by "my base of $100 was to high"?

I'm glad you like concrete. Everybody I talk to is one happy customer

 

[Doc_Bob]

The best technique for a house is the one that you can build and build well. Wood, brick, concrete, really does not matter. Can you build it and build it well, that is what matters. All homes no matter the technique will be energy efficient independent of materails if done well.

Looks like a great project.
Bob

 

[BobRip]

You should see the study your self but, actual wall sections were built. What do you mean by "my base of $100 was to high"?

I'm glad you like concrete. Everybody I talk to is one happy customer

My bill runs between $100 and $200. The base is therefore $100. This is the stuff other than heating and cooling. To further reduce my bill I need to work on this base, not the heating and cooling part. This means I need a more efficient refrigator, washer, dryer, hot water heater, lights, wife (that would be too expensive to change), and the applicances that always leave something on (TV, Cable Box, wall warts, clock radios, etc.).

I have improved on the lights, clothes dryer, and hot water heater.

 

[Paddy]

DocBob,

You are correct in your statement that a home should be built well. But material does play a mojor role in it's efficiency. Much like copper wire is more efficient than steel wire with regards to ele applications. We have the technoligy to build much higher efficiency cars and homes, but with current low cost energy it's not cost effective. As the true cost of energy comes to light, the price of efficiency comes down fast.

R-/inch
Fiberglass batts, R-3.16
Dow expanded foam, R-5
Vacuum, R-250!