Creating a Lake

[Spiveyman]

Renze, it may very well have been your dam comments that I remembered, but I read this whole thread straight through so it was hard to remember all the details. Anyway, this helps confirm my thoughts on dam placement in the valley. Cool that Bernouille can explain why dams hold water and why airplanes can fly. I'll all too familiar with him, I had a job interview one time where I was given a blank piece of paper and told to derive Bernouille's equation starting with the second law of thermodynamics. As for the depth of a boat, I think that was Archimedes area of expertise. I bet those two would have been fun at parties.

 

[schmism]

Eddie any more overview shots? you should finnally be mowing grass around it by now right!

 

[patrick_g]

Renze, I guess I missed the part about small ponds letting boats sink further down than big ponds with all that HUGE weight of water held by the dam. I'll take the canoe out and mark the water line and them put it in a smaller pond and check the difference (unless I choose too small of a pond the second time and the canoe sinks from lack of support!

Oh by the way, I'm sure you are very comfortable in MKS, CGS, SI, whatever... but bar, Kg, and the like leave the vast majority of the readers here behind (as do your earlier mentioned torque figures) It is fine with me unless you post in Dutch which will leave me behind as I took German and contrary to misinformed opinion in some quarters, it is not nearly the same. I see folks confuse Deutsch and Dutch.

Pat

 

[3RRL]

Hey Pat,
lol ... I am Dutch (or was) and he still leaves me behind.

 

[Spiveyman]

Hey Pat,
lol ... I am Dutch (or was) and he still leaves me behind.

How are you "was" Dutch? Did you get un-Dutched? Did it hurt? I'm just plain ole' Uhmerican. (Earl Pits style)

 

[3RRL]

Tim,
I immigrated to the USA 50 years ago from Holland.
Naturalized Citizen since 1962.
LOL ... So now I am un-Dutch...only American!

 

[Spiveyman]

Well, Welcome to America!!! Glad to have you here. (Although you've been here longer than I have. ) My family has been here since before the revolution. Had a Greatgreat... ...greatgrandfather who served together with George Washington when they were both young officers. So my roots are pretty well established as American. I think it's cool that you consider yourself "only American." Very cool. Bravo. Now I'm even more impressed than just seeing your tractor-handy-work!

 

[patrick_g]

I hope the intent of my previous post commenting on the metric figures posted by Renze is not misunderstood by anyone, including Renze. I appreciate Renze's participation and have no difficulty following his units BUT I fear a lot of folks are turned off by "foreign" units and discount his comments due to a knee jerk reaction instigated by their own ignorance, or worse.

3RRL, Welcome aboard the US Express. Glad to have you. We are a nation of immigrants but some of us tend to forget that. I am part (small part) American Indian and I really get a chuckle when I hear the term ORIGINAL INHABITANTS applied to ANYONE living on the North American continent. Baring extraterrestrials, everyone residing on this continent was either an immigrant or a descendant of someone who immigrated to get here. No humans originated here.

I worked for a while with a Dutch engineer whose only fault of consequence was an over dependence on Siemens brand components.

Pat

 

[Renze]

Renze, I guess I missed the part about small ponds letting boats sink further down than big ponds with all that HUGE weight of water held by the dam. I'll take the canoe out and mark the water line and them put it in a smaller pond and check the difference (unless I choose too small of a pond the second time and the canoe sinks from lack of support!

Oh by the way, I'm sure you are very comfortable in MKS, CGS, SI, whatever... but bar, Kg, and the like leave the vast majority of the readers here behind (as do your earlier mentioned torque figures) It is fine with me unless you post in Dutch which will leave me behind as I took German and contrary to misinformed opinion in some quarters, it is not nearly the same. I see folks confuse Deutsch and Dutch.

Pat

Just to make sure: The canoe water line in small pond vs. ocean was said by someone (cant remember the name) to prove that the pressure of water was -NOT- depending on the size of the lake... But Archimedes' law strongly agrees with that.


The thing about gravity dams (made of clay, dirt or stones) with no load bearing structures (like a concrete dam is) is off course, gravity:
It should be heavy enough so that the water pressure cant move the weight of the dam..


About the metric system: Some day even America will have to convert... Canada already set the pace, the gas pumps measure liters instead of gallons...
But maybe that's just a conspiracy of the petrol companies, to cover up that you guys have to get used to paying European prices for gas...

 

[Renze]

I appreciate Renze's participation and have no difficulty following his units BUT I fear a lot of folks are turned off by "foreign" units and discount his comments due to a knee jerk reaction instigated by their own ignorance, or worse.

Pat

I could try to convert my thoughts in American units, but the principle of pressure is so much easier understood when pressure is coupled to meters of water column, and in increments of 10.... It makes the math a lot more transparent.

Sure some americans would disagree, but in defence i say:
its easier to teach an american:
how many millimeters go in a centimeter,
how many centimeters go in a decimeter,
how many decimeters go in a meter,
how many meters go in a hectometer, and
how many hectometers go in a kilometer

.... the answer to these 5 questions is the same : 10 !!

Now ask a european how many inches go in a foot, how many feet go in a yard, how many yards go in a mile.... when i asked a Canadian relative, even he couldnt tell me without hesitation !!!


I think the biggest cause of the New World and England not adopting metric, is that it's a French dictator (Napoleon Bonaparte) who ordered for this new standard, and forced it upon all citizens of the French empire... England and France were sworn enemys for ages.

 

[patrick_g]

Renze, You can hold a horses head under water and perhaps drown him but whether or not he takes a drink is another matter. (Old Polish proverb.)

So exactly what is it about furlongs per fortnight that confuses you guys, anyway! I have no problem with a couple scratches on a piece of platinum-iridium alloy or the number of wavelengths of a particular spectral emission line of cesium closely approximating same.

Repeating myself... We drive on the opposite side of the road from the Brits so why can't we be different in our weights and measures? We fought a war to enable us to be different from them. Now we cling to THEIR antiquated system while they demonstrate good sense and go metric.

So what is a mile anyway? It is a "mile pedes" (excuse my Latin as it has been a while) i.e. a thousand steps (left steps or pairs of steps actually), a Roman army unit of measurement from the time of the Caesars. NO the Roman army didn't take really large steps, their mile was a little shorter than ours.

How about a nautical mile which is 6000 feet instead of the statute mile of 5280 feet. Nautical miles per hour (knots kts) is of what value in air navigation where it is employed (in addition to marine navigation.)

I better exit stage left before the villagers gather up torches and pitchforks and come after me.

Pat

 

[MadDogDriver]

I have some extra tea for ya Pat (if you need any)

 

[EddieWalker]

Pat & Renze,

You guys just amaze me. It's overwhelming to me how you know and understand this stuff, but when I read what you've written, it makes sense to me. That's really cool, because in a hundred years of trying to figure it out on my own, I never will.

One of my biggest advantages, and failsafes to my dam is that the majority of Lake Maribou is dug out. At the 12 foot deep end, the dam is only holding back 6 feet of water. That area isn't very long in the over 900 feet of dam. the vast majority of the dam is only holding back 4 feet of water.

Yesterday Steph and Alissa (10) spent a few hours in the afternoon fishing in our small pond. They cought 6 catfish and 3 bluegill. This time she landed one of the bigger catfish out of the pond. We didn't put a scale on it, but estimate it at 3lbs. Not bad for a fish that's only a year and a half old!!!

Then the girls released them into Lake Marabou.

Eddie

 

[Renze]

So what is a mile anyway? It is a "mile pedes" (excuse my Latin as it has been a while) i.e. a thousand steps (left steps or pairs of steps actually), a Roman army unit of measurement from the time of the Caesars. NO the Roman army didn't take really large steps, their mile was a little shorter than ours.

Pat

300 years ago, we in Europe had our own feet, thumb (which is an inch) and ducates to pay with.

The feet and thumb, pound, differed from city to city. When walking 20 miles, a pound of silver could become 200 gram lighter !!!

For trade and engineering, Napoleon did a good thing even though it took the arrogance of a dictator to overcome the resistance to what people were used to....

Perhaps America also needs a nutty dictator to change the measuring system ...

 

[silverdollar6]

Eddie, you are just a lucky guy to be married to a supermodel that makes the kind of money to afford all those toys to build great things.

 

[patrick_g]

Pat & Renze,

You guys just amaze me. It's overwhelming to me how you know and understand this stuff, but when I read what you've written, it makes sense to me. That's really cool, because in a hundred years of trying to figure it out on my own, I never will.

One of my biggest advantages, and failsafes to my dam is that the majority of Lake Maribou is dug out. At the 12 foot deep end, the dam is only holding back 6 feet of water. That area isn't very long in the over 900 feet of dam. the vast majority of the dam is only holding back 4 feet of water.


Eddie

Eddie, the same thing works both ways. You have areas of accomplishment that are amazing too, they just happen to be different from most of mine. In a way you can consider any advice I give (that is useful) as a tax rebate since a lot of the time I served as a university student (nights while working mostly) was paid for by the Government (you and other taxpayers) in the form of the Viet Nam Vet's GI bill and later job related schooling when I worked for The DoD (Navy lab as civilian scientist.) So thanks to you and the others for their contributions!!

Where dams get a tad more complicated is in the type of soil used for the dam. If the soil was impenetrable by water then the dam would not need to be very large in lateral direction (wet side to dry side), just mostly tall enough so its weight and the shear resistance would be great enough to safely exceed the hydrostatic forces of the depth of the water. But in the real world the dirt in the dam gets wet and THINGS happen.

Since much of your depth is from digging out not damming up, Your hydrostatic forces are reduced so the wet side to dry side dimension requirement is reduced. Of course in your specific instance it is just about a SO WHAT since your dam is so fat for aesthetics.

I had some excavated dirt to lose and a near by dam so the last dam I built was pretty HD compared to what was needed but it gives a site for a future picnic.

I hope to get the NRCS pond guy and my dozer operator together tomorrow to cuss and discuss the dam I am ready to have built for another stock watering pond. The pond expert and I have flagged the dam site and I am ready to get going. This dam will be about 25 ft high at its highest and will have a minimum of 3:1 slope. I hope to see it full within a few years. If it were already built it would be full due to wettest year on record and still getting rains once in a while (my second cutting of hay is rotting in field and can't be baled, just like the first cutting in July.)

Great pix of the fish transplanting! Did the kids fall for the grasshopper thing? They are a renewable resource so you won't run out of grasshoppers!

Pat

 

[Spiveyman]

Yesterday Steph and Alissa (10) spent a few hours in the afternoon fishing in our small pond. They cought 6 catfish and 3 bluegill. This time she landed one of the bigger catfish out of the pond. We didn't put a scale on it, but estimate it at 3lbs. Not bad for a fish that's only a year and a half old!!!

That's what it's all about man! The years of hard work and sweat will pay off the rest of your life. And by the way, I don't use scales either, they always mess up a perfectly good estimate!

 

[GaryBDavis]

Eddie,

How is your grass coming? I put some bermuda seed down this past spring and needless to say, it has come in full with no watering. I just put some seed down about a week ago near my front entrance. I did the final grading and an automatic sprinkler system waters it four times a day for about 5 minutes. Is that about right? It's just enough to keep it somewhat moist. I'm hoping to get it growing in September before it gets too cool at night.

BTW, how many folks do you have RSVPed for 10/27?

 

[patrick_g]

About seedng... IF yoiu have good moisture and decent temperatures be careful seeding with wheat! I never planted wheat before but it sprouted and became quite visible in just two days. NOw a few days later it looks almost like a lawn. Just anti-erosion control for an acre landscaped with a dozer. We added some annual rye grass and even some bermuda (Wrangler... it was just a hail mary but what the heck) Also mixed in arrow leaf clover and turnips. Deer will love raiding this acre in the front yard.

The idea is to not have a bunch of this bare dirt end up in the pond behind our house.

Pat

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie,

How is your grass coming?

BTW, how many folks do you have RSVPed for 10/27?

Gary,

The grass is coming in very full and thick. It was a little iffy this spring, but once it warmed up, it started to take over. I planted the seed last fall and had some good growth, but when it went dormant on me over the winter, I was worred if I had enough of a root system to last the winter. It seemed to take forever for anything to happen, but then all of a sudden, it was there!!!!

I'm mowing once a month to keep ahead of it and will have it like a carpet for the get together. I'm exited about showing off the dam and Lake Marabou to everyone who comes out here, as it's really come together in the last few months.

I haven't started any sort of RSVP type thing on the thread for the get together yet. I was going to wait until the end of the month for that. I know some people are still unsure if they can make it or not, and commiting to anything that far out might be dificult. For those who are coming, it's not a problem either way.

I'm bushhogging some areas of my land right now that are sort of overgrown and neglected. Then I'll put the finish mower on mow it real good this weekend or next week. Right now the water level is down about a foot, so it's perfect timing for a good mowing along the shoreline. Hopefully I can do this without getting stuck. Every time I've mowed around there this year, I've had to get the backhoe to pull me out of a wet area that I didn't know was there, or I've driven into the lake and can't get out.

After it's looking all nice and pretty, I'll post a few pictures to show it off.

Eddie