Creating a Lake

[EddieWalker]

Brandi,

Glad you enjoyed the read. It was never planned to be such a long thread, but I guess ponds are one of those topics that allot of people are interested in. Be sure to keep us posted on yours when you start it. One thing that is consistant from everyone I've ever talked to, make it as big as you can. You will never regret it being too big, but you will always regret it being too small.

Bird,

Thanks.

Rob,

Thank you. No plans for a boat bigger then the little paddle boat that I already have. We spend more time just walking around it then going on it with the boat. The boat is a ten foot, plastic thing that I row the kids around in. I have a small outboard for it, but as of right now, it's not working.

Then "natural" look is what I was after from the very beginning. When I was building the dam and piling the dirt up, my first goal was to make it strong enough to hold the water. My second goal was to make it look natural and like it fit in with the area. To do that, I had to put allot more dirt on the dam then I had planned on. As a result, I dug out more of the bottom then I had planned in order to have enough dirt to build up the dam. Depth was not a priority, it's just a result of the need for material to make the dam look natural.

Jim,

Thanks. I now look at all ponds and even large lakes differently after building this one. I'm the same way with houses. I don't just see the house, but imagin what the framing looks like, how they trusses were built and even think about the utilities and how they were run. I've found that when I see a pond or lake, I do the same thing. I'm imagining what it took to build the dam and where those people are today.

Posting my pics and sharing the construction of it with everyone here has added to the fun of building it in a way that's hard to describe. Getting everyones input has made me rethink my ideas and even change what I'd planned on doing. While it was my idea, plan and labor, it was a group effort to build that wouldn't be what it is today with out the advice and help I received from all of you.

Curly,

Yes sir, I'm very proud of Lake Marabou. It's hard to believe that I did this and that it's for real. Now that it's greening up and has begun to look like it's always been there, it's harder and harder to believe what it was before I started and that I actually did this. Maybe pride isn't the right word. Awe and disbelief are more acurate.

AllWaysBreakinSomething,

If I had to do it all over again, and knowing what it took to make it, I'm not sure that I would have done it. I underestimated what it would take by a huge margin. Financially was only a small part of it, but physically and emotionally, it was a massive thing to do on my own. My Dad helped quite a bit when he was here, but that was only for a few months at a time and then I'd be on my own again.

Renze,

I have a list of projects that I will do to finish off Lake Marabou.

First on the list is to fix the culverts. The small one has a good bulkhead of readi mix sacks that are working perfectly, but the discharge side is a disaster. I tried using old chunks of concrete to create a way to get the water to the lake without causing a bunch of erosion. This kind of works, but it's ugly.

My bigger culvert needs the cement readi mix sacks to protect it from water wearing down the sides of the culvert. It also has issues with water traveling from it to the lake.

In both culverts, I figured to put concrete down as rip rap to stop erosion. This didn't work with the amount of concrete I put down and the level of rains we had this year. In both cases, I had a mental block to use the concrete and couldn't get past that block. Then the other day, it hit me to just add to the culverts with another culvert. It's a simple, smart solution that just took me a year to figure out.

There is a crossing that I have to get around the lake that water drains into the lake along my property line. During a heavy rain, this water flows through a ditch. I need to put a culvert there and build it up so it looks attractive to allow year round access across this spot.

The overflow for the lake is a swamp that is impossible to get across when it's overflowing. I will build a bridge across this to allow me to drive my lawn mower/tractor/golf cart across this area without getting stuck. And yes, I've been stuck there twice this year. I also want it to be so nicely done that people will take pictures of it. I can build an simple bridge fairly easily, but I really want it to be something that on it's own, will be an attraction.

It's something that I've very excited about and can't wait to get started on. Unfortunately, I need the water level to be down about two feet or more in order to build this. I can lower the water level real easy with my drain, but I have too many other things going on right now to start this project. My thoughts are that I will do this in the spring before the rains hit.

I built the peninsula in the lake instead of a dock for liablity and maintenance issues. If somebody falls off of a deck, they can sue me. If they fall off of the peninsula, they just get wet. The peninsula itself is an attraction that will draw people to it, but to add to it, I have a plan drawn up for a large gazebo. I have some experience building things, but also have some ideas to that I've never done before, nor seen done before. Before I go crazy on the lake gazebo, I'm starting work on a smaller version next to my front pasture. I've already started the dirt work on this and will be starting a thread on in in the next week or so. When I finish that, I'll have a better idea of how I want to do the lake gazebo.

There is an area along the back side of the dam that I'm using to dispose of topsoil and dirt that's full of branches. This dirt isn't any good for road or pad building, so I'm dumping it behind the dam. When done, I will have a large, flat grassy picnic area that' surrounded by trees and right next to the water. This is a very long term, drawn out process that I expect to last several years at least. When done, I'll add picnic tables with cement pads to it.

The walkway around the dam has some ruts in it. I'm letting the grass grow in and fill in all the dirt right now. Then I will start building up the top of the dam with more dirt to creat a smooth hiking trail. This is very low on my list, but something that I feel must be done.

Eventually, I'll need a fish cleaning station. I've drawn up some plans for this, but haven't figured out where to put it. The thought of smelly fish guts concentrated in one location is an issue that I haven't figured out yet. I want people to have a place to clean fish that won't create a mess all over the place. I also want to put the fish guts and waste back into the water as a protein source for the fish in there.

Pat,

Thanks again for the info on the Secchi Disk. It should be fun project for me and the kids. I'll have them paint it, so who knows what it will look like. hahaha Also thanks for the advice on rotating the disk. I haven't heard that before, and wouldn't have thought of it on my own.

Keep us posted on you feeder. We've been feeding our catfish in our small pond by hand every evening. It's really allot of fun and something that Jinman showed us when we were at his place. Our kids have to take turns on feeding, as they both want to do it. hahaha

I'm not sure if we want to feed the fish in the lake or not. I know they will grow bigger, faster with feeding, but it's also something we'd prefer not to become dependent on. We've been told the fish tatse "grainy" from feeding, but don't know this for a fact. We've never ate any of our fish that we feed. We just catch them and then let them go in the lake.

Eddie

 

[patrick_g]

Pat,

Thanks again for the info on the Secchi Disk. Also thanks for the advice on rotating the disk. I haven't heard that before, and wouldn't have thought of it on my own.

Keep us posted on you feeder. We've been feeding our catfish in our small pond by hand every evening. It's really allot of fun and something that Jinman showed us when we were at his place. Our kids have to take turns on feeding, as they both want to do it. hahaha

I'm not sure if we want to feed the fish in the lake or not. I know they will grow bigger, faster with feeding, but it's also something we'd prefer not to become dependent on. We've been told the fish tatse "grainy" from feeding, but don't know this for a fact. We've never ate any of our fish that we feed. We just catch them and then let them go in the lake.

Eddie

I have been more consistent the last few months tossing feed to the catfish. Before I did it when I got around to it if I did. If you walk up to the edge of the pond and toss out a handful of floating catfish food they start hitting it usually in way under 2 sec! and sometimes in about a half second. They have to sense our footsteps or something as surely they don't spend the whole day every day poised to be fed, especially as I feed from different locations.

Never heard the "GRAINY" comment before. Channel cat are considered a game fish and as such it is not legal for restaurants to sell "natural" fish but have to use farmed fish which have been fed artificially all their lives. I know people who say ranch raised catfish are bland compared to some "free ranging" catfish but that is a flavor or lack thereof issue not a texture thing. I'm not a fish connoisseur and I tend to favor fish that don't taste fishy. Restaurant catfish suit me fine and I look forward to mine being similar to what I have been served.

My SIL and BIL will be visiting in October and I plan to let him catch our supper from the catfish pond. It will be the first fish we will have taken from it. I imagine it will be more like harvesting rather than fishing. I expect a hook at the surface with floating bait will get immediate attention.

A fun thing I do that you and the kids might enjoy... Catch some grasshoppers and toss them into the water. If you throw them hard enough the big ones that fly good will not be able to pull out of the "dive" and will still end up in the water. So far none of the ones I tossed into any of the ponds have been able to swim to the shore to get out before attracting the interest of some fish. The little fish can't take the big hoppers but they sure try. Eventually the activity attracts a larger fish. The little fish scatter out of the way and the bigger fish takes the hopper.

Pat

 

[Spiveyman]

Eddie,
Howdy! I'm pretty new here to TBN, just joined last month, so I've had the priviledge of seeing your lake go from dream to sweat to reality in a little over a week. I had several comments that I would have enjoyed making along the way, but they would have been a bit off timing-wise now. I like what one poster said about the scale of your "projects." When you were talking about trying to encourage the bat population near the lake I was picturing you building a "bat cave" that would impress Bruce Wayne.

It is great to see your family enjoying your new lake. That is an inspiration to me as I have plans to submerge a portion of my farm for a similar purpose. I may start a project thread here when I get her rolling, but compared to this it will be a let down. I can't do nearly as much of it myself with only a tractor, FEL, and hopefully by then a 3ph back hoe. But I'll do what I can to at least clear the land. Thanks for lessons in everything from clearing brush to fixing a turbo to identifying a frog. This thread has it all, and >120,000 views. Does anyone know if that is a record?

Last thing: pond Vs. lake I think that's kind of like the difference between a farm and a ranch. The size does come in to play, but ultimately it's what you choose to name it! I like to call my piece of land a ranch and will call my water way a lake too!

 

[brianz]

Wow! I can't believe I just read that entire almost 120 page thread. What a great job. I wish I had the ability and patience to do something like that. After reading all those pages spanning the last couple of years, it almost seems like I know you and your family. LOL. BTW, are you married, now?

 

[Defective]

Looks like it to me...

 

[EddieWalker]

Pat,

I never heard of the "grainy" taste to catfish fed fishfood either, but Steph's Dad says it's real noticble to him. I don't really care for fish and only eat it when I'm either out camping in the mountains someplace and have just cought some trout, or I'm at the beach someplace along the Equator. Then it's very tastey!!!

We have a very large grasshopper population, but have never thought to toss any into the water. I'll tell the kids and see what happens. If they have a reason, they'll catch hundreds of them. hahaha


Spiveyman,

Welcome to TBN!!!

Thanks for the kind words and I'm happy that you enjoyed the thread. It's not what I planned when it began, but it's turned into an excellent record of what happened and when it happened.

Don't let your tractor limit you on how big to make your lake. My first couple ponds were dug by shovel. Then I graduated up to a backhoe and have a 3/4 acre pond next to my home that I dug in several months of working seven days a week hauling dirt out for ten hours at a time. It's not hard to do, just ming numbing boredom of doing the same thing over and over again. Then it took me half a year to get rid of the dirt pile I made digging out that pond.

I don't worry about terms, or what others call it either. I switch from pond and lake all the time. The biggest reason for calling it a lake is we have that pond, so it just makes it easier to call one a pond and the other the lake.


brianz,

Welcome to TBN!!!!

Thank you. It's always a pleasure to hear that others enjoy reading what I've written and posted. When I first joined TBN, I had very limited experience on a tractor and didn't know anything about rural living. Thanks to all the great advice I received here, I've become fairly comfortable taking on projects that I would never have thought possible.

Allot of the guys here have become friends and most of them I've never met face to face. Fortunately, I have met some face to face and I'm looking forward to see them again in a few months when we have the get together here on October 27th.

It sure would be fun to meet some more members if they can make it!!!


Defective,

Thanks for the link. You have an amazing memory!!!!

Eddie

 

[Spiveyman]

Don't let your tractor limit you on how big to make your lake. My first couple ponds were dug by shovel. Then I graduated up to a backhoe and have a 3/4 acre pond next to my home that I dug in several months of working seven days a week hauling dirt out for ten hours at a time. It's not hard to do, just ming numbing boredom of doing the same thing over and over again. Then it took me half a year to get rid of the dirt pile I made digging out that pond.

Ha! Pond by shovel. That hurts just thinking about it. No worries on me making it too small. I pulled up my farm on Google Earth and used their measuring thing to figure out about how big the lake would be. (rough estimate anyways) Since I'd be damming up a valley it's hard to say exactly where the water will go until I get out there to survey it, but from just walking the fields there would be several fingers, maybe 10 to 12-ish acres under water. That's WAY too much for me to do all by myself, but like I said, after reading your posts I'm inspired to do as much as I can. Here's the lay of the land and another with the lake outlined and the proposed dam in red. The square there on the right is about 80 acres for scale. The existing pond in the field on the left is about 1/2 acre.


I'm sure I'll have many many questions when I get into that project and I have some equipment yet to buy, so unfortunately it will be a little while. I'll probably just start by taking out some of those trees - maybe even have them harvested as there's mature wild cherry and white oak all through there. It would be great if I could get someone to pay ME to do some of the logging work for me!

 

[Grrrr]

WOW

Having just read through this entire thread from beginning to end I realise what a massive project this was and how well you have pulled it of Eddie

You have incredible patience and skill and you have got an amazing lake in return for all you hard work.

We also hope to put in a lake sometime down near the woods by the river, but it is a while off.

Spiveyman: If you do start that lake, I would be very interested in hearing about it. It would be one massive lake when finished

 

[Spiveyman]

Spiveyman: If you do start that lake, I would be very interested in hearing about it. It would be one massive lake when finished

Well, I've heard the best way to make God laugh is to tell Him your plans, but since I think laughter is a good thing... This isn't a passing thought, I've been "planning" this thing out for a couple months now. I've contacted the NRCS to check out the soil and layout. They said that I shouldn't have any trouble getting the lake to hold water given my soil (lots o' clay). We were out in the middle of a field and all around you could see crawdad holes! They have a pond expert, been doing it for several decades, that is willing to come out and help me with the engineering. They won't assist in the build anymore, all they will do is put in watering tanks, but at least they still offer their expertise.

The only real obstacles I have now are money (for the back hoe, and eventually for someone to run a dozer out here) and time (working 2 jobs in addition to running the farm, wife, 3 year old, 6 month old, and planning to build a house on the farm. Oh yeah, and spending a couple hours on TBN every day!!!) This will include many nights and weekends taking out trees and getting things ready for the dozer, but what a fund project it will be.

 

[patrick_g]

I've contacted the NRCS to check out the soil and layout. They have a pond expert, been doing it for several decades, that is willing to come out and help me with the engineering. They won't assist in the build anymore, all they will do is put in watering tanks, but at least they still offer their expertise.

I have a contract with NRCS and the local NRCS pond expert came out and designed another two ponds for me. He and I have staked the one dam site and the dozer is pared at my place waiting for the operator. The pond will be built on a cost share basis with them paying a portion. I also have a cross fence scheduled in the cost share program as well as some gully smoothing and brush removal.

In their cost share program you do have to build to their specs which runs the cost up but makes for good results. There are certain restrictions of course and they don't just arbitrarily jump in with $ for any project without a sound basis within their charter.

Pat

 

[Cacinok]

eddie, re: the to be built bridge over your overflow, there was a thread on tbn, i can't remember how long ago, but a bunch of TX tbn'ers got together and built it. if i remember correctly, it was rocked up the sides and had a large rock that was cut into the shape of TX. i know you won't want the same bridge, but there were a lot of good tips on the building of it, and i believe pics and video as well. somebody else might remember the thread and build better than i do and might be able to direct you to the thread. congrats on your lake it's most excellent.

edit: found the thread and here's a pic of the finished bridge.

 

[hunterridgefarm]

I also want it to be so nicely done that people will take pictures of it. I can build an simple bridge fairly easily, but I really want it to be something that on it's own, will be an attraction. Eddie

Eddie,

The campground I have my RV at has a lot of nice rock work and attractive bridge made from river rock. I will be up there this weekend and if I can remember to take the camera I take a few pictures a post them next week.

I'll also take a few of there pond and culverts.

David

 

[3RRL]

Spiv,
....but what a fund project it will be.
lol ... Was that a Freudian slip? Hahaha

 

[Spiveyman]

I have a contract with NRCS and the local NRCS pond expert came out and designed another two ponds for me. He and I have staked the one dam site and the dozer is pared at my place waiting for the operator. The pond will be built on a cost share basis with them paying a portion. I also have a cross fence scheduled in the cost share program as well as some gully smoothing and brush removal.

In their cost share program you do have to build to their specs which runs the cost up but makes for good results. There are certain restrictions of course and they don't just arbitrarily jump in with $ for any project without a sound basis within their charter.

Pat

So the NRCS is helping out there? My business partner's wife used to work for the NRCS out in OK. She was under the impression that they would no longer fund pond projects due to all the resources wasted on ponds that won't hold water and the maintenance. Hmmmm.... Out here they only seem willing to put in watering tanks fed by city water. That would be awesome if they'd help with that. Although, they might think a 12 acre lake would be a bit overkill for providing water for my cattle. My papaw always told me you can never have a pond too big. Although if you put your neighbor's house under water that might be the exception to that rule.

 

[Spiveyman]

Spiv,
....but what a fund project it will be.
lol ... Was that a Freudian slip? Hahaha

Yeah, no kidding. I don't really know how much that dozer time is going to cost me, and don't really want to think about it. That's why I'm hoping I can do a ton of prep work myself - besides the fun aspect, I'm a real tight wad with money (except where toys are concerned!)

 

[Defective]

Cacinok,

Just a hint...

Take a look at the rest of the photos in that thread. Look for the muscular looking guy with a hair shortage...

 

[EddieWalker]

Spiveyman,

Thanks for the pictures. They really help show what you have to work with and how cool a lake you will have when you build it. With that much area to work with, you won't have any problems getting dirt to buidl the dam. Just push it up from the bottom.

What you need to think about is the size of the dam, not so much the size of the lake. A guy with a big dozer with a straight blade can move an incredible amount of dirt in a day. My dozer is 169 hp and has an 8 way blade. It's the wrong type of blade for moving lots of dirt, as it's rated for three yards. A similar sized dozer with a straigt blade can move five yards easily. Go up in size to a D7 and your moving 7 yards at a time. Those extra yards of materail really make a HUGE difference in time, and time is money.

In a perfect world, I'd much rather have your layout for a lake then what I had tot deal with. I love a lake that has fingers, points and a more random shape.


Grrr,

Thank you. It was overwhelming at first, but the more I got done on it, the easier it got. Probably the most daunting task was just clearing the trees to see what I had to work with. Until they were cleared, it was allot of gueswork and positive hoping. hahaha


Cacinok,

That bridge is over a creek at TXDon's place. It's how the very first TBN get together started. He and Harvey thought it would be fun to do a project togeher, and then they invited everyone to Harvey's place to help build it. Later, after it was all done and Don had it installed, he invited eveyone out to check it out and hang out at his place.

The pictures don't realy do it justice as you can't see all the little details that went into it. It's more a piece of artwork then anything else. When people come to visit Don, he brings them down to the bridge to see how cool it is!!! What's really funny, is it's at the very back part of his ranch and is such a remote area, you'd never know it existed until you are just about next to it.

When we were at Harvey's, he had us all sign the state of Texas on the side of the bridge. Then he cut out our names with his plasma cutter. You'll have to read through the thread, but in one of the pictures you'll see my name on it.

My bridge won't be as fancy as Don's in some respects, but in others, I think more so. It will be a flat, wood bridge built like anybodies back yard wooden deck, but with a very detailed, custom railing that will set it apart.

Any chance you're able to make it here October 27th for the get together? I have a link at the bottom of my post that talks about it, but on that date, there will be a bunch of TBN'ers and their families coming out here to hang out, eat lots of food and share stories. I have 68 acres to explore with trials for ATV's, UTV's or just a nice hike. The small pond is full of catfish and bluegill for fishing and of course, Lake Marabou is looking amazing all by herself!!!


David,

I'd really appreciate any pics you post on bridges and culverts. I have a few ideas, but until I actually build it, I'm open to everything. I love rock, wood and steel. If I can combine those three materials properly, I'll have a beautiful bridge!!!

My thought on the rock is to use cultured stone to wrap the footings that will support the wood beams. Most of it will be underwater, but witht the rise and fall of the water level, the rock will always look nice.


Rob,

I never noticed it before, but Funds and Fun sure have allot in common!!!!


Defective,

That's not a hair shortage. It's a lack of insulation!!!!! hahaha

Eddie

 

[Spiveyman]

Thanks for the pictures. They really help show what you have to work with and how cool a lake you will have when you build it. With that much area to work with, you won't have any problems getting dirt to buidl the dam. Just push it up from the bottom.

What you need to think about is the size of the dam, not so much the size of the lake. A guy with a big dozer with a straight blade can move an incredible amount of dirt in a day. My dozer is 169 hp and has an 8 way blade. It's the wrong type of blade for moving lots of dirt, as it's rated for three yards. A similar sized dozer with a straigt blade can move five yards easily. Go up in size to a D7 and your moving 7 yards at a time. Those extra yards of materail really make a HUGE difference in time, and time is money.

In a perfect world, I'd much rather have your layout for a lake then what I had tot deal with. I love a lake that has fingers, points and a more random shape.

Thanks for the tips on the Dozer work. I don't know how many dozer guys I'm going to have available to choose from, but it sounds like that would be a good quesiton to ask - what's the dozer rated for in terms of yards of dirt? Is there a better way to ask that?

I'm very excited about the possibilities on the back of our farm. We run the cattle up front, but I wanted to leave that back section for rec purposes - ATV trails, horse trails, camping, shooting, fishing, and also pull hay for the cattle. I'll tell you though, here's my real motivation for putting in that lake. This is my little girl, 3 years old with her first blue gill last weekend! That's my papaw's pond just down the road from our farm.

 

[bindian]

Thanks for the tips on the Dozer work. I don't know how many dozer guys I'm going to have available to choose from, but it sounds like that would be a good quesiton to ask - what's the dozer rated for in terms of yards of dirt? Is there a better way to ask that?

I'm very excited about the possibilities on the back of our farm. We run the cattle up front, but I wanted to leave that back section for rec purposes - ATV trails, horse trails, camping, shooting, fishing, and also pull hay for the cattle. I'll tell you though, here's my real motivation for putting in that lake. This is my little girl, 3 years old with her first blue gill last weekend! That's my papaw's pond just down the road from our farm.

View attachment 84823

Spiveyman,
That is the best motivation God ever gave man. She's a cutie. Does she have you wrapped around her finger?
hugs, Brandi

 

[EddieWalker]

Spiveyman,

Beautiful picture!!!! She's a cutey.

I can relate to your motivation, as mine is very similar. I like to build things and work on the land, but for me, the real pleasure is in making Steph and the kids happy. By nature, I'm lazy and tend to procrastinate. If it wasn't for them, nothing would get done and I'd spend all my free time relaxing and getting fat.

Getting into the world of hireing dozers is about as tricky as they come. It's one of those trades thats ripe with thieves, liers and outright crooks. In no other area have I seen so many problems as hiring a guy to move dirt.

A few things to consider before hiring anybody.

Get multiple bids and be sure you are comparing apples to apples. Pricing is either gonna be hourly, or for the job. Both have there disadvantages. Hourly can drag it on forever and keep running up a bill. Bidding the entire job doesn't gurantee that it will get done for that price, but it might mean that corners are cut to get it done and get out of there.

I prefer hourly myself as I can keep an eye on what's happening and see right off if I'm being taken advantage of. For smaller projects when I hire somebody, it's usualy the price for the job, but that's just the way it is in home construction.

Then be sure you agree up front to what hours you are paying for. It's very common to charge hours for down time, maintenance time and repairs. You don't want to pay for this. Also be sure they are honest in their hours. I've had problems with guys starting at one time, but billing for an earlier time, or just saying they worked 8 hours that day and it wasn't even close to that.

Rates vary all over the place, but here, you can hire a small, 80hp tractor and operator for around $80 an hour. This is way too small for what you want to do, but just a starting point. A D6 sized dozer will run in the low $100's an hour and probably charge a delivery fee of $200 to $400. A bigger dozer, like a D8 is about the same to deliver as a D6, but will run another $40 to $50 an hour to hire.

The huge difference is that the D8 will move twice as much dirt as the D6. You pay a little more per hour, but you get twice the work out of it. Sometimes it's more like three times the work depending on machines and blades.

Be upfront with everyone you talk to. How much dirt is the dozer rated for? What size machine and how old is it? Older machines still work fine, but they tend to break down more often and it might take months to get it fixed. You don't want a dozer sitting around for months on your land with nothing getting done!!!

Track loaders and dump trucks will move dirt over greated distance faster and cheaper then a dozer, but I don't think that's what you need in your area. A belly scraper is the fastest way to move dirt, but again, you need to be moving it over some distance to be effective.

If you talk to a guy who has all these tools, he's probably gonna be able to go in and get it done really fast. In this case, a bid price is the way to go.

Also make sure you know how much dirt you will be moving. Measure it out, do the math and go into this with as much info as you can. If it's a hundred thousand yards, you need to know that beforehand so you can compare the bid price with an hourly rate.

Some guys will also charge by the yard. This complicates things since there is so much gray area when figuring yards to build a dam. The bigger the dam, the stronger it is, but also the nicer looking it is. This is more money to move more dirt, so you have to know where to draw the line.

When you figure it all out and what it will cost, you might consider buying a large dozer. I paid $25,000 for my dozer and have another ten grand into it with a new engine and hydralic pump. I can't even guess right now what I have into it in fuel and oil, but it's probably close to another seven grand. So I have either $40,000 plus into my lake, or when I sell my dozer, I have what's left over after deducting the sales price. Of course, I've also put a couple thousand hours on the dozer using it on other things and will be using it for anoher few thousand hours at least. To build a pond, the general rule of thumb that I came across was $5,000 to $8,000 per acre of water. My situation was different since my dam is over 900 feet long and that price was closer to twice as much. I built my dam three times thicker then it needed to be, so that would have increased the price allot more too. My guess is that if I'd hired it out, I would have spent $60,000 to have it done, maybe more. I couldn't afford that. I really couldn't afford what I have into it, but somehow, it all worked out.

Eddie