Creek Crossing for Tractor

[Tom22]

Part of my property lies across a creek. Each time I need to bush hog across the creek, I have to make the 6 mile journey by highway and then get permission from a distant neighbor to drive my tractor through his property to get to the other side of the creek.

I'd like to be able to get my tractor across the creek directly. Building a bridge is not an option. The creek banks are very soft and are continually carved by the creek, with large chunks sometimes caving in. It would take a 35-foot span to allow for future "wandering of the creek -- and lots of $$ and equipment to handle large steel beams, footings, riprap, etc.

I'd like to be able to ford the creek with my tractor. Someone has already created "boat ramps" on each side of the creek, making it possible to drive down to the water and up the other side. The problem is that the "ramps" start getting soft about 6 feet before the creek bed, and of course, the creek bed is mushy.

I've been thinking about laying some #1 or #2 stone in the creek bed and along the "boat ramps" leading down to it. It would raise the level of the creek in that area a little, but it seems like it might work. An alternative might be to place a couple of culvert pipes in the creek and lay stone over and around them.

One final bit of information: the water in the creek is normally about two feet wide by 6 inches deep. After really heavy rains, however, it can overflow its banks -- which are 18 feet wide and 5 feet deep. I'm not sure how stone or culverts would fare under that kind of flow.

Does anyone have experience with something like this? Thanks in advance.

Tom
mail_for_tom22@yahoo.com

 

[Gatorboy]

You are probably looking to do something similar to this stream crossing.

On my stream, I just put down #2 stone. This was done 2 years ago, and most of the rock is still there. Some of it farther away from the stream bed has sunk down into the ground -- it's probably time for another load to be delivered.

 

[TBAR]

While your low water crossing idea sounds inexpensive, relatively easy and low cost it is going to wash out when you get heavy rains unless you concrete them in.

Many people here on the board have done some nice culverts. You just have to make sure they are large enough to handle the largest possibe run off.

I opted to build a bridge across my creek. Here are some pictues of my project.


PICTURES


TBAR

 

[BB_TX]

<font color="blue"> overflow its banks -- which are 18 feet wide and 5 feet deep </font>
With that kind of flow, I don't think anything will stay in place short of a concreted low water crossing or a bridge above the expected water level.

 

[rambler]

The government often wants to say a lot about water flow. If this is a dug ditch, you will get permits to cross it. If it is a natural stream, you could have some real issues if they discover you messing around with a natural stream bank - these days. Just how it is.

Raising the stream bed or installing culverts too small can have a real bad effect on neighbors upstream of you. My fields, for example, the water flows in reverse direction from the ditch through the tile & into my fields when the ditch gets real high. Anyone making that condition worse would need to answer to it.

All I'm saying is, look upstream & be real sure you don't affect your neighbors upstream, or you will have big financial issues.... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think a rock bed in the much will work for you, but could cost a bit to get set up.

--->Paul

 

[bczoom]

Tom22

Welcome to TBN.

Do you have a camera whereby you can post a picture?
What are your creek banks and bed made out of? Sand, clay?

Based on your description, your creek is probably a little bigger than mine (pic attached). I have clay banks and lots of stone for the base so I'm not having the issues you're referring to for driving through but let me throw a couple things out.

For culverts, you're probably going to have problems. Here in PA, you're not even allowed to use them in a natural creek. If you do put them in, under a heavy flow they may either clog, forcing the water over the banks, or wash away all together.

I had a ramp going into mine (see next post) that had 1" stone going down the bank. It only took 1 good flow to wash it all away so I don't know if that'll work for you. (In the next picture look at the cloth to see where the stone was).

What Gatorboy did may be a very good option for you (and it's what I tried) but you mentioned 5' banks. Are they sloped or do you need the existing ramps to get through?

Besides just driving through it (weather permitting), I've realized that I don't have much of a choice other than to build a bridge out of 10" I-beams and decking (pretty much like what TBAR posted). I'm going to raise above the banks and set on concrete posts on both ends and one pair in the middle. The concrete posts will all be in double-wall 15" culvert pipe.

 

[bczoom]

Another pic - stones washed away (right side, where you see the cloth)

 

[Alan L.]

A couple of years ago I used the FEL to create a ramp on both sides of the creek, and put several bucket loads of 8" granite rock in the creek bed. Actually I put a couple of 6" PVC "culverts" down first, then put 3 or 4 sacks of sackrete over that, and added the big rock on top. Even after several big rains with overflows, the rocks are still in place. The only problem is the ramps get slick when wet, and so I plan to put gravel of some sort on them at some point.

 

[Dargo]

Whew! What a subject for me. I am in the process of concreting my entire driveway. What I have left is 891 feet and I'm going 6" deep with #6 gauge wire matting, 5000 psi concrete and 14' wide. If that isn't a big enough dent in the ole wallet, I have to replace a culvert I built 15 years ago over a creek to get to my property. I need a 35' span over a 10' deep creek!! Short of robbing a bank and hiring a contractor to build a bridge, anyone have any ideas? The bridge will have to be able to handle 80,000 pounds as well. Okay, all you smart guys, let me know my most cost effective way of doing this.
Somebody mentioned the government getting involved in an earlier post. Boy, do they ever! I was going to have two giant concrete box culverts put in with a crane. However, the box culverts would create an obstruction where they are butted together to get the width I need (basically they would have been 2 15' wide X 20' long culverts laid side by side). The center of the culverts could possibly catch a floating log etc. and cause an obstruction, bla, bla, bla.

To build the bridge, I'd have to have 6 40' long 12" tall 80lb per foot I beams sitting on giant footers (20' wide and 20' deep and 24" thick) on each side. Not counting the labor and the concrete for the surface, that is already quite pricey! Anybody have a spare bridge they want to get rid of? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Taylortractornut]

Tom I do alot of excavation work on the water and around streams. If it has a boat ramp on each side facing each other you could get some boat ramp mats. Thay look like long concrete parking space markers that are hooked together with rebar links and come in rolls. they can be ordered in ceratin widths but most common is 10 feet wide. You put them in place and roll them out. Sometimes if I need a 20 foot wide span Ill offset the mats and let them mesh together. And with them being flexable they follow the botom of the stream or river bank. I havent put any in lately I did make a few sets for my last river job last year. It wasnt too bad on the wallet but id have to have alot of them to do before i made another one. Ready mix places can make or order them for you. I usually take the my backhoes loader and unroll them but since I have the excavator it makes it easier to handle.

 

[pilonidal]

Seen flat railroad cars used. Don't know where to get them. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[TOMDUALLY]

check at your local truck stop and get a truck sales paper selling used trucks and trailers sometimes you can pick-up a good 40'to 53' flatbed for around $2000 should be strong enough for your tractor and mower. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[EddieWalker]

Taylortractornut's idea made me think, why don't you just get a roll of fencing and lay it down. Cut the bank first, then to keep from sinking in, unroll the fencing.

Wouldn't this keep the tires from sinking in and it shouldn't wash away and depending on the size of the links you got, it might even hold some rock in place.

 

[Gatorboy]

You could also get some heavy duty type of landscape fabric and lay that down first, then place rocks on top of that. This would allow the water to pass through, yet prevent the rocks from just sinking into the ground.

 

[Tom22]

Thanks for the very helpful replies. After reading them, looking at some of the posted photos, and thinking it through again, I think I may reconsider my earlier statement that a bridge is out of the question. Anything I put down in the stream is likely to cause some disruption to the stream and may very well wash away during the heavy flow periods. Seeing the pictures, I also keep seeing the image of my 2wd tractor stuck smack in the middle of the stream -- possibly for days, with bad weather and rising water on the way...

Since I only need a carrying capacity of 10,000 lbs. (tractor, loader with full load, bush hog, operator), I think I can use a pair of 14"-34lb/ft I-beams at 35 feet long to span the entire creek with footings about 8 - 10 feet back from the edge (allowing for future bank washaway. A local steel supplier quoted me around $1,500 for the pair, including priming and holes punched for attaching wooden decking. Another $1,000 for railroad ties, lag screws, concrete, miscellaneous items, and free labor (me) might let me finish for around $2,500.

Will I still need permits, government approval, etc.? Any other counsel? Thanks.

Tom

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> Will I still need permits, government approval, etc.? Any other counsel? Thanks.</font>

Is this area easily seen by passers by?

Myself, the older I get the more I tend to attend the "Don't ask a question you don't want to hear the answer to" school.

Of course, I try to apply some common sense too. I would not dam the creek, that would be asking for trouble and the neighbors would complain and so on. But what you want to do does not seem like it will have any impact on the neighbors at all.

What harm would your bridge be likely to cause? There could be other bridges crossing that same creek already, that were put there before any restrictions that may be in place now were written...

If the bridge were pretty much hidden and if it were not going to cause grief to any of my neighbors I would probably just do it, and plead ingnorance later if necessary.

I am pretty sure around here if you put a bridge over a creek, you do need a permit, and to get that permit I believe you need to have a licensed engineer (or someone like that) sign off on the plan, certifying that your bridge will pass the max water expected in a hundred years, and so on. In some cases this is reasonable...doesn't sound like it is where you are though...

Of course, the worst case risk of not following the letter of the "law" is you could be forced to dismantle the bridge...

Maybe you could get someone else to find out what the regulations are in your area. I always fear asking, as that might give a hint of what I am thinking of doing, and cause someone to come around checking later, when they would never had thought to check at all had I not asked a question to begin with.

I doubt your bridge if you build one would harm anything/anyone. It just irks me that rules that are useful in some cases, tend to be applied in all cases, when actually they may not be helping to do anything except make one's life more difficult and take money out of one's pocket.

Sorry for the rant... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif ...guess it might qualify as "counsel, possibly related..." /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[EddieWalker]

I trust your numbers, and I've never built a bridge, but I have built plenty of other things.

If you figure it will cost $2,500. Make sure you have $5,000 available!

 

[bczoom]

After reading Dargo's post, I was immediatly response is what Tomdually said (look at a flatbed). I may be taking this approach as well.
Tom22 - you may want to consider this as an option.

As Henro eluded, if forced to dismantle, you just drag it out.

 

[EddieWalker]

Henro reminded me of a good story.

I have a friend in California who wanted to build a pond on his land. He worked for the city and knew plenty of people personally in the county who were able to tell him about the nightmare he'd have to go through to build a "new" pond on his land.

A few hints and some off the record type advice let him know that he could "repair" an existing pond that might have gone dry years ago.


He brought in a dozer and "repaired" that pond by taking out all those trees that grew in the old pond over the last hundred years and pushed all that dirt that had settled from the dam into the area the pond "used" to be.

It was allot of work "rebuilding" that dam, but in the end it turned out really nice. The best part was that not one government official was invlovled.

hahahahahahahahaha

 

[bczoom]

Tom22

You're profile is empty. Where are you located?

Re. permits, government approval... and what Henro stated, if you take the "don't ask, don't tell" approach, you may want to consider broaching the subject with neighbors. All it takes is one to call the state and then you could have problems.

Around me, several "projects" similar to what you're doing have been done but all the locals all gave a verbal OK to it.