Cutting Trees at an Angle

[TJP89]

Well it's the season for wood cutting, and I'm planning to try to take most of my firewood off my own property this year. The problem I have is that there are a bunch of nice down trees that are leaning against another tree, or hung up somehow so they slant off the ground. Some of them are low enough so I can just cut, let them fall and cut again, but most are too steep/high for that to work. I not going to take down live standing trees, there's plenty of down wood, so I'm looking for suggestions on how to handle the slanted ones. I only idea I've come up with is to pull the base out with the tractor and chain, even then there are some spots I just can't get to with the tractor. Climbing trees with a chainsaw is not something I do, not that it would help here anyway. Anyone have a method for dealing with such troublesome trees?

 

[The Suburban Farmer]

there are a bunch of nice down trees that are leaning against another tree, or hung up somehow so they slant off the ground.

BE VERY CAREFUL! I've spent a lot of time timbering, and these can be some of the most dangerous trees to deal with. Even experienced folks get killed or maimed every year doing this.

But that doesn't mean you can't - or shouldn't - do it. Just be careful and think it through before you start work.

You didn't say how big they are, but if they're anything bigger than a sapling, then my advice is to get them all the way onto the ground first before you pull out a saw or make any cuts. When I'm dealing with leaning blow-downs, I will hook up a series of blocks so that I'm pulling from a very safe difference. Using blocks also helps to move some of the ones you can't get close to with the tractor. There can be a LOT -- let me say that again... A LOT -- of unreleased pressure in a leaning tree, both stored in the down tree as well as in the tree it's leaning against. It's not uncommon to have them "jump" a good distance when that stored energy is released. I usually use steel cable (or my synthetic winch cable if it's long enough) and rig the blocks so that I'm pulling at a 90 degree angle with the tractor (hooked low at the drawbar.) Also make sure that you are clear enough so that if the tree rolls or slides, you don't get pulled into something or pulled sideways. I NEVER pull a direct line on the tree -- always use at least 1 block if not 2 to make sure the forces are directed properly.

I'm not OSHA -- just have seen how dangerous some of these "leaners" can be first hand, and learned my lessons on the broken arms and crushed legs of a few friends. The amount of stored-up energy in these trees is not something to play around with.

But that being said, I never give up on good firewood! You just gotta make sure you think through the potential of "what if this thing jumps" and have a plan.

 

[The Suburban Farmer]

From a Penn State report (Tractors in the Woods)

Pennsylvania farm fatality reports from recent years have identified numerous fatalities involving tractors that were being used for pulling down trees and limbs, pulling tree stumps, dragging logs, clearing saplings and brush from fence rows, or for collecting and hauling firewood. Over 50% of these incidents involved tractor upsets while dragging trees, logs, tree tops, or brush. Nearly forty percent of the incidents involved falling trees due to lodged trees or falling limbs (widow makers) from overhead. The remaining fatalities involved chain saw kick-back.

 

[Billrog]

When I have trees hung up that I can't get at with the tractor I hang a few red flags around where I'll see them to remind me to stay clear until wind and nature take their coarse and they fall on their own. The ones I can get at I wrap a chain around so when I pull on them they will roll away from the the tree their hung up in then fall. Some times I can get at them to push sideways if you do this make sure your bucket is tipped so when the tree falls it won't hang up on the bucket and tip your machine. Do this with short butts don't push and load up the tree like a spring or it could come back and knock you silly or worse.

 

[s219]

Agree with what's been said. I take down a lot of leaners and hung up trees after hurricanes, and every one takes a careful analysis to manage properly. Many should be handled with machinery rather than a saw, some use a little of both. Not possible to give a blanket answer.

If you can pull the top or base out, good, but also be aware of what might happen as the top dislodges from other trees. Throwback (catapulting of stuff at the top) can be as dangerous, if not more so. It can travel a long distance.

In the past, people have posted pics of a challenging tree here, and there is some good discussion and tricks shared.

 

[Egon]

Look into cable and snatch blocks. They may allow you to pull in places the chain and tractor can not reach.
In some cases maybe a come along will work.

It might all be dependent on the tree size and tractor size.

 

[LD1]

There are 2 kinds of hung-up trees

1. ones that are no longer connected to the stump. Either you cut and it hung up falling, or wind snapped it off and it hung up.
2. Ones that are still partially connected to the stump.

You didnt specify what type you have.

If they are no longer connected to the ground, chaining around the butt end and dragging until it falls clear is easy and not very dangerous to do.

If they are still connected, it gets a bit trickier. Simply chaining and trying to break it free of the stump isnt easy. And can sometimes stand the tree back up and make it fall on top of you (if you have the traction). The higher you chain from the "partial" break, the easier this can happen. In a case like this, without large equipment, some cutting to free it from the stump may be required. But every tree is different. Just depends on where the stresses are and how its leaning. Sometimes requires undercut, sometimes top cut, sometimes from the sides. Sometimes the butt end is loaded in a way that it just wants to fall off the stump nicely and land on the ground (then you can pull it down). Othertimes, it may want to spring up at you or barberchair.

 

[TJP89]

There are 2 kinds of hung-up trees

1. ones that are no longer connected to the stump. Either you cut and it hung up falling, or wind snapped it off and it hung up.
2. Ones that are still partially connected to the stump.

You didnt specify what type you have.

If they are no longer connected to the ground, chaining around the butt end and dragging until it falls clear is easy and not very dangerous to do.

If they are still connected, it gets a bit trickier. Simply chaining and trying to break it free of the stump isnt easy. And can sometimes stand the tree back up and make it fall on top of you (if you have the traction). The higher you chain from the "partial" break, the easier this can happen. In a case like this, without large equipment, some cutting to free it from the stump may be required. But every tree is different. Just depends on where the stresses are and how its leaning. Sometimes requires undercut, sometimes top cut, sometimes from the sides. Sometimes the butt end is loaded in a way that it just wants to fall off the stump nicely and land on the ground (then you can pull it down). Othertimes, it may want to spring up at you or barberchair.

The thickest trees I'll be cutting are about 18" dia. Some are still attached at the stump, others are free. I'm always very careful with my chainsaw and always look at the situation. It seems I need to look at the tree from all angles and then decide how to get it down. Someone pointed out to have the entire tree down before I cut, that makes sense, but I think some cutting may be inevitable. I have experienced first hand what a tree can do when strain is released, which is why I'm being real careful. I'll be working on this over the weekend, but keep the advice coming:thumbsup:

And if you don't hear from me again you know what happen:laughing: (I know, no joking matter)

 

[The Suburban Farmer]

Good luck, Tony! Just use your head and don't start ramdomly sawing, and you'll be fine...

...but make sure to post in the Good Morning tread on Monday so we know you're still around. :thumbsup:

 

[sixdogs]

Cut live trees that are in the clear and save yourself and family the possible agony of a disaster. As mentioned, the trees you want to cut are probably the most dangerous around. That's why a lot of people call them "widowmakers". There is increased probability of bugs in dead trees as well. Cut the healthy trees near the edge, improve your stand of trees, have good firewood and it also opens up the edges for more critters to live. Animals live on the edges of the woods where the undergrowth affords them food and shelter.

The trees to cut are the crooked ones. Straight trees make good sawlogs.

 

[tawilson]

Sounds like a good situation to justify a logging winch.

 

[CobyRupert]

Sounds like a good situation to justify a logging winch.

Yup
A long cable is your friend.
A cable on a hung up tree where the butt is hung up too can "lever over" the tree and kill if the cable is hooked on the tree too high, or wheelie you tractor if hooked low.
Another problem with a hung up tree is the kerf doesn't open away from saw bar as with a normal tree that learns more as you cut. Learn some cuts and how to use a wedge so all the down force of the tree doesn't end up on your bar and you have a pinched saw, game over.
Don't ask me how I know.
Be careful, sometimes when "they go" it's quick and without warning unlike a tree that slowly leans over. And the upper part of the tree wants to chase your saw to the ground;

 

[MFWD]

Hello,
I usually use my skid steer and a long steel cable or long chain. Even then, sometimes it's very difficult to get them down. Sometimes the way they get hung up in other trees seems to lock them in. If you can come at them in all directions, most of the time you can beat them !!!!!! I'm not sure what I would do without my skid steer !!!!! Good luck !!!!!

MFWD

 

[arrow]

Here wedges are your friends. You'll need at least 4. The tree is being supported so you cannot "fell" it. What you can do s use your ck to pull it off it's stump once you make cuts to free it. Make two felling cuts on opposite sides of each other one on the lean side and the other opposite and parallel to the ground. I usually cut the lean side first. Leave about a 3"-4" hinge. Bang in 4 wedges into these cuts as you are going along: 2 on one side, two on the other about a foot apart for an 18" tree. Plunge cut or continue cutting the hinge out. The wedges will prevent the tree from crushing the chainsaw bar. The tree should now be free of it's stump and because the cuts are parallel to the ground, your tractor should easily pull it off it's stump. I've had big leaners slide off the stump all by themselves but these are like finding pearls in oysters.
Now here's what to watch out for. Some trees will want to twist off their stump which is fine because you are never standing in back of the tree to be the brunt of a possible deadly "kick out". As suggested, use a long cable and or pulley snatch block as sometimes, as Coby already stated, a tree will grab it's stump and the top will start moving toward the pull line especially if the tree is not leaning very much. A long enough cable coupled with a perpendicular pull and a low cable set, will mitigate this being problematic. I've taken down hundreds of "leaners" this way with few problems. Start with smaller trees until you get the hang of it but I usually reserve this method for larger trees. For that 6-12" tree, I use the following method:
Make a felling "notch" opposite the lean side about 3'-4' up. Make the felling cut. The tree will collapse on itself. Keep cutting like this until the rest of the tree hits the ground or pull the rest of the tree off with the tractor.
If you cannot get a tractor in there, a 2-4 ton come along can be used.

 

[square1]

This technique, while scary as all get out, is effective and probably one of the safest. My heart races and adrenalin pumps every time I use it. Do heed the warnings of safety everyone here has given, including the ones in the video.
Always keep an eye on the kerf in addition to the top of the tree (you have two eyes for a reason ). The kerf will indicate which way the tree is going to release as it begins to open. If there is sideways energy being released and the kerf opens opens toward you that's a very real reason to rethink your position and either move or get ready to move.

 

[square1]

At ~5 minutes into this video another effective method is demonstrated.

 

[Egon]

A good sharp felling axe may be the easiest way to separate the leaned tree from their roots. If using a chain saw having a extra bar and chain makes life much easier at pinch time.

 

[arrow]

At ~5 minutes into this video another effective method is demonstrated.

I"m scratching my head at this as he states "I didn't need to escape". The separation happened so fast he couldn't if he wanted to. I feel there are safer methods for this problem for the casual chainsaw user. Good advice Square about "watching the kerf" as a tell tale of a tree going to twist.

 

[arrow]

A good sharp felling axe may be the easiest way to separate the leaned tree from their roots. If using a chain saw having a extra bar and chain makes life much easier at pinch time.

Very sage Egon about the extra bar and chain or an extra chainsaw. Nobody can have just one chainsaw right?

 

[Andre Belliveau]

It's a challenge for sure. I do selective cutting and I get trees hung up all the time. I can usually count on the wind to get them down. Failing that I hang my block with a choker chain on another tree close to the one that's hungup; run my cable through the block and down to the but of the tree. A pull with the winch and it comes down. Safety first. Stay clear. Good luck.