Derating a trailer

[LD1]

In Colorado you do need a CDL for any combination over 26K EXCEPT for RV's.

Are you sure about that?

This is always where the confusion comes in....not just for us weekend warriors, but even for LEO's

Any commercial motor vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more

Taken from CDL General Information | Department of Revenue - Motor Vehicle

So are you operating COMMERCIALLY?

 

[paulfun9]

Examples of vehicles you might be able to operate with a Class C CDL (with proper endorsement) include:
•Small HAZMAT vehicles.
•Passenger vans.
•Combination vehicles not described in class A or B.•EXAMPLE: A small truck towing a trailer

 

[paulfun9]

I should have looked at the last post to make sure it took correctly. It was supposed to be a copy and paste of the back of 3 different licenses and the states breakdown but it did not take correctly.

Anyway the back of the PA license for normal everyday car drivers reads (single/combo-less than 26001) this is where they will get you no matter what you claim the wording for the "commercial License" might seem to imply. Simply stated with a regular drivers license you are not technically licensed to operate anything over 26,001 so you have to find a license to cover the weight over that. With the CDL being the only one that does even tough your not using it commercially, if you don't fit the exceptions you will be required to be licensed for over 26,001 and the only license available being a CDL means you must have one for it or simply not operate in combination at 26,001 or over.

 

[LD1]

Again, don't know In other states.....but going over 26,001......a CDL is NOT the only option .

And what you mean by "standard" license is simply a class D license. In many states, you can have a NON commercial class A license.

In Ohio...the CDL exemptions exempts personal use.

Read section 7 and 8
Lawriter - ORC -

456.3



Commercial driver's license or temporary instruction permit requirements.

 

[LD1]

Interesting read on PA......according to their DMV....driving an RV does NOT make you exempt.

You cannot operate an RV over 26k or combination over 26k on a "standard license"......that's the way I read it anyway

Home

 

[paulfun9]

I believe these to be the only exceptions in PA. I also think that there are many other states that have very similar rules.

Exemptions: You do not need a CdL to drive military equipment while in military uniform; certain fire and emergency equipment owned by a fire company; or recreational vehicles; implements of husbandry; or certain motorized construction equipment.


"And what you mean by "standard" license is simply a class D license. In many states, you can have a NON commercial class A license"

I left the classes of it out for in case an other state has them listed differently!

 

[LD1]

Im sure classes may be different in other states.

When I posted that, I though ohio had non-commercial class A-D licenses....and the standard being D. Dont know if things changed or it was just my imagination.....but cannot find anything other than Class D for ohio.

I dont have the time, nor ambition to search all 50 states DMV websites....

But all of the ones that I have ever looked at.....NO, you DO NOT need a CDL unless you are hauling COMMERCIALLY. Hence the C in CDL.

So when people always ask questions pertaining to needing a CDL and what class, and at what weights......and everyone is always quick to jump in with CDL-A if you are over 26k combo.......and that is absolutly true IF AND ONLY IF you are using it commerce/commercially.

If you are towing a backhoe/tractor/mini-ex to a jobsite to make money.....and over the weights of a standard license....YES that is commercal and you need a CDL. If you are hauling something for someone else and making money doing so, YES that is commercial.

IF you have your new 14k GVWR dually truck, and towing a 24K GN with your tractor to your hunting property to do some work for yourself....NO you DONT need CDL because its NOT COMMERCIAL. But based on the state you live in.....you may need a different class of NON-commercial license.

 

[fried1765]

Im sure classes may be different in other states.

When I posted that, I though ohio had non-commercial class A-D licenses....and the standard being D. Dont know if things changed or it was just my imagination.....but cannot find anything other than Class D for ohio.

I dont have the time, nor ambition to search all 50 states DMV websites....

But all of the ones that I have ever looked at.....NO, you DO NOT need a CDL unless you are hauling COMMERCIALLY. Hence the C in CDL.

So when people always ask questions pertaining to needing a CDL and what class, and at what weights......and everyone is always quick to jump in with CDL-A if you are over 26k combo.......and that is absolutly true IF AND ONLY IF you are using it commerce/commercially.

If you are towing a backhoe/tractor/mini-ex to a jobsite to make money.....and over the weights of a standard license....YES that is commercal and you need a CDL. If you are hauling something for someone else and making money doing so, YES that is commercial.

IF you have your new 14k GVWR dually truck, and towing a 24K GN with your tractor to your hunting property to do some work for yourself....NO you DONT need CDL because its NOT COMMERCIAL. But based on the state you live in.....you may need a different class of NON-commercial license.

Something that MIGHT come into play here......
Is YOUR word good enough, that you are not towing your equipment for commercial purposes?
I ran afoul of this when trying to board an international ferry with my Ford TLB (Canada - USA).
The ferry operator was not permitted by US customs regulations to transport commercial equipment (the ferry was PLENTY large enough -700 car capable).
I got lucky, and was able to prove my case, but it was touch and go, until final boarding time.
Will a state highway patrolman believe that you are towing for personal use purposes?

 

[some zilch]

i tow my gooseneck flatbed here in "rules-heavy and enforcement heavy" NY with a maine plate. ive never been stopped over it; and i know many other epople that do the same without issue

 

[GSVette]

Im sure classes may be different in other states.

When I posted that, I though ohio had non-commercial class A-D licenses....and the standard being D. Dont know if things changed or it was just my imagination.....but cannot find anything other than Class D for ohio.

I dont have the time, nor ambition to search all 50 states DMV websites....

But all of the ones that I have ever looked at.....NO, you DO NOT need a CDL unless you are hauling COMMERCIALLY. Hence the C in CDL.

So when people always ask questions pertaining to needing a CDL and what class, and at what weights......and everyone is always quick to jump in with CDL-A if you are over 26k combo.......and that is absolutly true IF AND ONLY IF you are using it commerce/commercially.

If you are towing a backhoe/tractor/mini-ex to a jobsite to make money.....and over the weights of a standard license....YES that is commercal and you need a CDL. If you are hauling something for someone else and making money doing so, YES that is commercial.

IF you have your new 14k GVWR dually truck, and towing a 24K GN with your tractor to your hunting property to do some work for yourself....NO you DONT need CDL because its NOT COMMERCIAL. But based on the state you live in.....you may need a different class of NON-commercial license.

Washington state is one that requires a CDL regardless of commercial/non commercial at 26k GVWR. My dump truck MFG is 28k and would require a CDL however there is an agricultural exemption in the FMCA allowing for it to be operated without a CDL for agricultural purposes only up to 150 miles from agricultural operation. Of course Wa being WA- restricts it to 25 miles!!

There are other exceptions- military operation, RVs. But in WA commercial/non commercial is not the differentiator.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

The federal rules apply across the country. State compliance is mandated and enforced through federal highway funding. States may have stricter laws, but no state can have laws that are more lenient. In Washington State and probably many others, the officers that will pull you over for a badly loaded trailer, or because they think you might be overloaded etc are Commercial Vehicle Enforcement[ officers. It makes no difference if you are not hauling commercially. If federal laws say you need a CDL then you need a CDL. The federal laws are aimed at commercial vehicles, but it is a good idea to remember that the rules are written by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, not the Federal Commercial Vehicle Safety Administration. Commercially or not, if you are hauling something across state lines you are subject to FMCSA rules and are probably subject to those laws within the state, since many states simply adopt the federal laws as state laws.
I've had a CDL since CDLs became mandatory but I was really getting fed up with the increasingly burdensome regulations. I bought a trailer with a manufacturers GVW of #9990 to be exempt from the FMCSA laws.
In my dealings with enforcement officers, I found most to be just doing their job without any particular malice. I did find one strutting peacock officer that weighed me using jump scales and wrote me up for being #3000 overweight even though the weight ticket I got from a full length state certified scale said I was #200 pounds overweight and another state certified full length scale that I reweighed on said that I was #300 pounds overweight. I won't ever again trust jump scales.

 

[fried1765]

i tow my gooseneck flatbed here in "rules-heavy and enforcement heavy" NY with a maine plate. ive never been stopped over it; and i know many other epople that do the same without issue

You are quite correct!
Many do NOT understand.
A local MA. hauler runs all 8 of his trailer dumps, with Maine plates.

 

[bdog]

The federal rules apply across the country. State compliance is mandated and enforced through federal highway funding. States may have stricter laws, but no state can have laws that are more lenient. In Washington State and probably many others, the officers that will pull you over for a badly loaded trailer, or because they think you might be overloaded etc are Commercial Vehicle Enforcement[ officers. It makes no difference if you are not hauling commercially. If federal laws say you need a CDL then you need a CDL. The federal laws are aimed at commercial vehicles, but it is a good idea to remember that the rules are written by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, not the Federal Commercial Vehicle Safety Administration. Commercially or not, if you are hauling something across state lines you are subject to FMCSA rules and are probable subject to those laws within the state, since many states simply adopt the federal laws as state laws.
I've had a CDL since CDLs became mandatory but I was really getting fed up with the increasingly burdensome regulations. I bought a trailer with a manufacturers GVW of #9990 to be exempt from the FMCSA laws.
In my dealings with enforcement officers, I found most to be just doing their job without any particular malice. I did find one strutting peacock officer that weighed me using jump scales and wrote me up for being #3000 overweight even though the weight ticket I got from a full length state certified scale said I was #200 pounds overweight and another state certified full length scale that I reweighed on said that I was #300 pounds overweight. I won't ever again trust jump scales.

This is not entirely correct. Federal laws regarding commercial vehicles are able to be enforced because the federal government has the ability to regulate interstate commerce. If a commercial vehicle is operating totally intrastate they follow state rules which can and sometimes are more lenient. For example in Texas with intrastate operation you can get a CDL at 18 where you have to be 21 to operate interstate and also the hours of service are less strict.

 

[ch47dpilot]

maybe a silly question, who's best to call to find laws in your state? State police, DMV ect. I'm looking at a 20K trailer but based on what has been written I maybe in for more than I'm bargaining. I currently have a 2500 duramax but hope to 1 day get a 1 ton dually. I figured get the bigger trailer now even though I never plan to haul that much. That way when I get the dually I won't need to upgrade trailer.

Just thinking and maybe someone can enlighten me. When I do the skills test will there be an issue if my truck isn't rated to pull the GVWR of the trailer. I believe the Duramax can pull around 12-15,000. So even though I don't plan to exceed that will it raise any issues if I bring a trailer that can weight 20,000lbs. I could borrow a friends 14K gooseneck but then I won't need a CDL to tow that trailer and that may also raise a red flag. It says you need to bring type of vehicle for which you wish to be licensed.

 

[bcp]

It says you need to bring type of vehicle for which you wish to be licensed.

How to you legally get it there for the test for a license to drive it?

Bruce

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Just thinking and maybe someone can enlighten me. When I do the skills test will there be an issue if my truck isn't rated to pull the GVWR of the trailer. I believe the Duramax can pull around 12-15,000. So even though I don't plan to exceed that will it raise any issues if I bring a trailer that can weight 20,000lbs. I could borrow a friends 14K gooseneck but then I won't need a CDL to tow that trailer and that may also raise a red flag. It says you need to bring type of vehicle for which you wish to be licensed.

Yeah there will be an issue! They go through all of your paperwork to make sure the rig is legal, that's why I used the testing center's f-800 and tri-axle trailer to take my Class A CDL test. Better make sure you have a licensed driver to babysit you on the way down there.

 

[TMGT]

I took my cdl with my 2000 f550 and a 50ft tri axle 21k gooseneck trailer. Drove it there by myself since i wasnt opersting in a comercial capacity. They never checked weights.
This was in VA.

When they say type of vehicle they mean bus, B, combination, and any endorsements such as air brakes etc.

 

[bdog]

How to you legally get it there for the test for a license to drive it?

Bruce

You have to have a properly licensed driver drive it there. When I was getting my class A the DPS popped a guy and gave him a ticket for driving a class A rig up there to take the test when he didn't have the license.

 

[TMGT]

You have to have a properly licensed driver drive it there. When I was getting my class A the DPS popped a guy and gave him a ticket for driving a class A rig up there to take the test when he didn't have the license.

The only time I've seen that here is if there is an endorsement required.

 

[crashz]

A few years ago a friend of mine was pulled over on Rt2 in MA with his work truck. He was driving an F350 dually (company truck with lettering) with tool body. He was towing a 14K lbs bumper pull trailer with a track skid steer. The officer made him go through the truck, show proof of a pre-trip, checked the function of the trailer brakes and emergency brakes, and checked his Class A CDL. The officer was targeting (vocally) small contractors and landscapers who thought they could get away without a CDL in a dually truck and trailer.

See in MA, you need to comply with the federal rule of the Single or combined GVWR of 26K but also, MA regulates trailers over 10K as requiring a CDL. Son in NH I can tow a 14K trailer with my pickup, but once I cross the state line, I'm in violation (no CDL).