Derating a trailer

[ch47dpilot]

See in MA, you need to comply with the federal rule of the Single or combined GVWR of 26K but also, MA regulates trailers over 10K as requiring a CDL. Son in NH I can tow a 14K trailer with my pickup, but once I cross the state line, I'm in violation (no CDL).

I truly believe the beauty of our country is that each state is somewhat independent. 50 small experiments all united for a common cause. But with something like this there needs to be consistency. Even if its you are subjected to the laws from the state your licensed in not where you currently are driving. I could want to travel across our great land and need to read up on all the little nuances of each states laws. This maybe practical for the OTR trucker but for the noncommercial guy just towing a heavy load it seams to be ridiculous. Simple federal laws so everyone is on the same page.

 

[crashz]

Totally agree ch47. It would be nice to have a consistent, and understandable set of regulations nationwide. Easier for us to understand and implement and easier for the law to enforce.

One other minor inconsistency that I find funny: MA requires you to cross the safety chains on a towed trailer, NH does not. My trailer dealer told me the the police will pull you over in MA just for that reason. I cross, because I like the basket effect, but I just find that kinda funny.

 

[LD1]

Agree too. Even though I never have towed out of state.

Also don't think commercial drivers should be held to a different set of standards than non commercial.

When someone who has never even towed a landscape trailer before, can go buy a little semi and 40' camper, or huge rv that rivals a cota bus, and go down the road on the standard license that you got when you were 16......

.....yet a contractor trying to make an honest living with a 16k trailer and one ton pickup needs to go through the same testing and held to the same standards as a 53', 80,000# tractor operator has to go through....something is very wrong.

Then the whole discussion like this thread and weather CDL is needed or not for non-commercial towing...could certainly use some clarification from a higher authority (feds)

 

[TMGT]

Agree with the RV exemptions, the lobby is strong with them.

When I was driving commercially there was nothing that scared me more on the road then the large RV's and campers.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

Agree with the RV exemptions, the lobby is strong with them.

When I was driving commercially there was nothing that scared me more on the road then the large RV's and campers.

Yup! Came up behind an old guy in a new 40' motor home near Longview WA using part of the right lane and part of the middle lane at the incredible speed of 45 mph. The speed limit was 55 then but I usually drove at the 62 mph sweet spot in my trucks torque curve. I had to use the far left lane to pass him which was prohibited to semis. Same area, different time saw another motor home pulling a small boat trailer minus one wheel and trailing a shower of sparks that would have a low rider envious. Got passed by a pickup pulling a 24' or longer travel trailer. The pickup got about 15' past my front bumper and the hit their turn signal and started moving over forcing me on to the shoulder. I am glad air horns are loud because the shoulder wasn't all that wide there. Large U-Haul type vehicles are another red flag.
You would think that some kind of skills test would be required to operate large vehicles or combinations on public roads.

 

[coldsteelva]

It's the Penske Truck lease/rentals that scare the **** out of me. The company avoids problems by having the box trucks rated to 26k GVWR so 'technically' no CDL (or any driving prowess whatsoever) required. I tend to see them on roads they don't belong on and every driver of them thinks it's a 2 door sports coupe.

 

[LD1]

It's the Penske Truck lease/rentals that scare the **** out of me. The company avoids problems by having the box trucks rated to 26k GVWR so 'technically' no CDL (or any driving prowess whatsoever) required. I tend to see them on roads they don't belong on and every driver of them thinks it's a 2 door sports coupe.

Well, and the whole title of this thread.....

A truck and trailer combo that is physically over the Class A 26k+ requirement......simply changing a single number on the trailers GVW plate magically makes it tow differently to where a class A is no longer required?

My truck is an 05 dodge with 12.2k GVWR. If I wanted to tow my MX on a 14k trailer........thats over 26k and Class A required right?
Dads truck....basically same identical truck but chevy flavored and 04....BUT...11.2 GVWR. So same trailer, same load....hes ok. Tell me how that makes any sense at all?

And with the newer generation trucks pushing the GVWR north of 14k.......making it where you cannot even hitch to a 12k trailer.

So someone with a 3/4 ton or half ton truck, towing a 12k or 14k trailer yanking around their 50hp machine is okay......but want to upgrade to a 1-ton and now all of the sudden everything changes?

These are dually pickup trucks for crying out loud. Why in the world anyone would need to pass the same tests and be held to the same standards as out OTR truckers and 80k combinations is just stupid

 

[deezler]

It's the Penske Truck lease/rentals that scare the **** out of me. The company avoids problems by having the box trucks rated to 26k GVWR so 'technically' no CDL (or any driving prowess whatsoever) required. I tend to see them on roads they don't belong on and every driver of them thinks it's a 2 door sports coupe.

Lol, yep. People that have NO IDEA how tall their rented truck is.

11 FOOT 8 - The Canopener Bridge

 

[RichM752]

Lol, yep. People that have NO IDEA how tall their rented truck is.

11 FOOT 8 - The Canopener Bridge

You'd think the first truck would have radioed the second truck and warned him.

 

[bdog]

Well, and the whole title of this thread.....

A truck and trailer combo that is physically over the Class A 26k+ requirement......simply changing a single number on the trailers GVW plate magically makes it tow differently to where a class A is no longer required?

My truck is an 05 dodge with 12.2k GVWR. If I wanted to tow my MX on a 14k trailer........thats over 26k and Class A required right?
Dads truck....basically same identical truck but chevy flavored and 04....BUT...11.2 GVWR. So same trailer, same load....hes ok. Tell me how that makes any sense at all?

And with the newer generation trucks pushing the GVWR north of 14k.......making it where you cannot even hitch to a 12k trailer.

So someone with a 3/4 ton or half ton truck, towing a 12k or 14k trailer yanking around their 50hp machine is okay......but want to upgrade to a 1-ton and now all of the sudden everything changes?

These are dually pickup trucks for crying out loud. Why in the world anyone would need to pass the same tests and be held to the same standards as out OTR truckers and 80k combinations is just stupid

My sentiments exactly. We have a 14k gooseneck. Any of my guys can pull it behind the 3/4 ton however they need a class A to pull the exact same trailer and load behind the dually. Towing it behind the dually is safer, not any more difficult, better brakes, extra tires in case of a blowout, etc but because of their arbitrary GVWR limits it all of a sudden needs a special license, log books, etc. ridiculous.

 

[Btown]

A few years ago a friend of mine was pulled over on Rt2 in MA with his work truck. He was driving an F350 dually (company truck with lettering) with tool body. He was towing a 14K lbs bumper pull trailer with a track skid steer. The officer made him go through the truck, show proof of a pre-trip, checked the function of the trailer brakes and emergency brakes, and checked his Class A CDL. The officer was targeting (vocally) small contractors and landscapers who thought they could get away without a CDL in a dually truck and trailer.

See in MA, you need to comply with the federal rule of the Single or combined GVWR of 26K but also, MA regulates trailers over 10K as requiring a CDL. Son in NH I can tow a 14K trailer with my pickup, but once I cross the state line, I'm in violation (no CDL).

He was operating a commercial vehicle for commercial purposes. If he was driving a dually with a normal bed towing the exact same load. The police officer would not have done this inspection. In MA you can tow a trailer over 10K with a combined GVW over 26K and you will be within the law. In MA they recognize the C in CDL stands for Commercial.

 

[buickanddeere]

Given the completion to build trailers as cheap as possible . Just because a trailer is 途ated for 10,000lbs does not mean is should be loaded to 10,000lbs .

 

[LD1]

Given the completion to build trailers as cheap as possible . Just because a trailer is 途ated for 10,000lbs does not mean is should be loaded to 10,000lbs .

Right, because if a trailer were loaded within its ratings and failed.....the liability would be on the MFG, and it wouldnt take too many of them liability claims to either make them go out of business, or change their ways.

Its funny, alot of threads on TBN about overloading a trailer, maybe just one time for something abnormal a short distance and no main highways, or whatever. And many people always say....should be fine, they are usually overbuilt...safety factor, etc etc.

Now you are saying they are cheaply built and shouldnt even be loaded to what they are rated for.:laughing: Give me a break

 

[paulfun9]

Given the completion to build trailers as cheap as possible . Just because a trailer is 途ated for 10,000lbs does not mean is should be loaded to 10,000lbs .

I see very few cheaply built trailers that cant properly handle their full weight rating. The few that I do see are custom built by a no name builder who somehow gets them licensed when in fact they are probably worse than the overbuilt home brew trailers that we used to see lots of before all the government regulation got so tight on home built units.
When last shopping for a trailer we honestly didn't find anything that we would have to think twice about loading to its full weight on a regular basis from any of the major builders that are sold local to us. In fact most were overbuilt and I wouldn't hesitate to have them rated higher if it was possible.

 

[lennyzx11]

On a somewhat related note,

My 2016 H&H MX Speedloader 20 ft tilt trailer has 2 new axles with brakes and tire's. The axles are rated for 5 k each.

But the original sticker is for the 3500 lb axles it was originally equipped with.

What is the LEGAL rating of this trailer?

 

[LD1]

On a somewhat related note,

My 2016 H&H MX Speedloader 20 ft tilt trailer has 2 new axles with brakes and tire's. The axles are rated for 5 k each.

But the original sticker is for the 3500 lb axles it was originally equipped with.

What is the LEGAL rating of this trailer?

3500# x 2

 

[LD1]

On a somewhat related note,

My 2016 H&H MX Speedloader 20 ft tilt trailer has 2 new axles with brakes and tire's. The axles are rated for 5 k each.

But the original sticker is for the 3500 lb axles it was originally equipped with.

What is the LEGAL rating of this trailer?

3500#.

 

[TMGT]

On a somewhat related note,

My 2016 H&H MX Speedloader 20 ft tilt trailer has 2 new axles with brakes and tire's. The axles are rated for 5 k each.

But the original sticker is for the 3500 lb axles it was originally equipped with.

What is the LEGAL rating of this trailer?

Whatever the original rating is, so probably 7-8k.

 

[ultrarunner]

Lots of derated trailers and trucks in California... derated from the Manufacturer.

Super Duty F 250 and 350 under 10k pounds and 12k trailers just under 10k.

It has to do with license requirements mostly.

Now a boat or RV trailer are not held to the same.

 

[lennyzx11]

3500#.

I don't understand. It was rated for 7k with two 3500 lb axles. And now with two 5 k axles, it's only half of original?