Digging a trench

GlennT · Nov 18, 2001

My tractor is small--a JD Model 670. I am going to run some irrigation lines (probably 1" plastic) to trees and bushes around our yard. What might I hang on the back of the tractor to make some trenches? I would be satisfied with shallow trenches (4" to 6" inch depth); however, we do have caliche in part of the property. Freezing will not be a problem. If necessary, I will try to plan ahead and then rent a trencher and do all of the trenches at once; however, it would be nice to be able to do a little at a time as I get to it and I would also have the implement available for future needs.

jinman · Nov 18, 2001

Glenn, If you look down this forum a few lines, you will see a post about middle-busters and subsoilers by MikePA. I "swiped" this image of a subsoiler from Paul Hart in that thread. This should be "just the ticket" for what you want to do. Of course, you can get to places with a small trencher that you can't get to with a tractor. You can get a subsoiler or middle-buster at Tractor Supply for around $100.

JimIEdited by jinman on 11/18/01 08:41 AM (server time).

thumperjb · Nov 18, 2001

What size tractor would be needed to pull one of those? I want to bury some PVC (water line) and was hoping to find some implement I can use with my B7500 Kubota.

Bird · Nov 18, 2001

You can use either a subsoiler or a middle buster (potato plow) - I prefer the middle buster. If you have trouble pulling it, just don't go so deep and make multiple passes instead of trying to get your full depth on one pass.

aschk · Nov 18, 2001

I just purchased a sub-soiler (much like the one pictured, only built a bit beefier) yesterday, and used it today to begin a trench for a 2" pvc drain pipe. I am using a 20 HP Kubota 1750,and had no problem going thru clay and roots ( to about 6-8 inches in two passes), and this is after no rain in 2 months! Now for the work part: the sub-soiler will not remove the loosened soil from the trench. I was told by the fellow I got it from that if you first make your cut, then go back to the beginning and attach the pipe/hose to the implement and re-trace the line, it will pull the line thru and bury it for you. haven't tried it, but maybe someone else here has?
The middle buster blade - called a shovel blade around here - will take the dirt out . It will not, however, put it back in after your pipe is laid.
Pick your poison.
I can say that this is the coolest, dirt-buster I have ever seen. Good luck with your project.
Andy

jinman · Nov 18, 2001

Have you seen the vibrating trencher they use to bury telephone lines? They mount a roll of telephone line on the trencher and thread the wire through the foot on the trencher. It works like magic. I don't know about something as big as pvc, but if you are successful at doing it, please let us know. My personal favorite is a small trencher, but one rental is more than the cost of a middle buster and/or subsoiler. It's a tool that is almost as handy as a box blade. I use my middle buster to cut ditches and redirect water like an irrigation ditch. It works great and I have cut ditches as deep as 18". I highly recommend one to anybody, even if you have to remove some dirt from the trench.

JimI

njrqs · Nov 18, 2001

I use a single tyne ripper with a pipe layer attachment on the back.

I rip the trench twice, then go back with the pipe layer attached and it lays the pipe in the trench. Doesn't go real deep, but deep enough for water & irrigation.

Picture attached without the pipe layer attachment.

Neil from OZ.

RayDiers · Nov 18, 2001

If you like to make things yourself here is a web site to look at:

http://www.cadplans.com/3pointhitch.htm

Ray

dthomas · Nov 18, 2001

Neil,

Could you please post a close-up of the pipe laying attachment? I have a ripper and have been wondering about using it to lay water lines. How big a line can you bury and what length?

Thanks,
Donald

njrqs · Nov 19, 2001

Donald

Attached is the pipe layer. It is home made (not by me) and is just a large sweep bend of galvanised iron pipe. It bolts on to the back of the ripper as per the next photo.

I have laid 25mm water pipe and apparently it can lay up to 40mm poly (1.5"). If the pipe was really flexible, I suspect you could lay almost as big as the pipe layer's bore size.

Any length can be laid, just lay a bit past the joint and back up and start the next bit. Join later by hand. Doesn't go real deep but might just be my soil.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Neil from OZ.

njrqs · Nov 19, 2001

Donald

Mounting to ripper attached.

Neil from OZ.

dthomas · Nov 19, 2001

Neil,
Good photos. Just what I needed.

Thanks,

Donald

jinman · Nov 19, 2001

Very nice, Neil. I'm guessing this is a two-person operation: one person to operate the tractor and one to mind the pipe. Am I correct? Seems obvious...

JimI

njrqs · Nov 19, 2001

Jim

I'll answer only if I get some flying lessons. I have 24 hours up and can't afford to go further...............

Yes it is easier with 2 people. I use the second person to stand on the ripper (have a step I bolt on) to get it through the ground easier.

Then when laying the pipe I run it up over my shoulder and the second person just checks to see it is going OK and drags some of the dirts back into the trench.

I have ordered a rear blade so soon the filling of the trench should be easier.

I haven't had this long, and probably don't know how to use it. I have very hard soil here, but would like it to go deeper. I suspect if I ripped the trench several times I'd get the depth but I am lazy and near enough is good enough !!

Cheers

Neil from OZ.

jinman · Nov 19, 2001

I'll answer only if I get some flying lessons

Sorry, Neil. I'm no pilot, I just develop multimedia presentations (groundschools) that tell pilots how their aircraft systems work and explain performance. Of course, if you are ever in Dallas, I could probably arrange for you to get a demo flight in a full motion corporate jet simulator (Learjet, Gulfstream, Hawker, Falcon, etc.)./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Thanks for the info on using your subsoiler/trencher/pipe layer. I'm sure it will get easier with experience. Have you ever tried wetting the ground with a hose before trenching or after you've made the first pass? Do you have the drip type soaker hoses you could lay on the ground and soak the path with water prior to trenching? I don't know if any of these ideas are feasible where you are digging, but it might be worth a try.

JimI

njrqs · Nov 19, 2001

Well after all this TBN stuff I am itching to get to the States for a look. Cheap at present too !!

A silulator ride - Well that is just about the clincher in the deal to get me there.

One day.............

I hear that the rippers work better when dry as the soil breaks and shatters into large clumps. I do think that is better otherwise I'd just end up with a muddy trench.

As it was, even going down hill, with someone on the back of the ripper, the drag was sufficient for me to spin the wheels slightly all the way along the trench. So I reckon if it were wet, I'd have all sorts of trouble !!

Cheers

Neil from OZ.

StanInCalif · Nov 19, 2001

Neil-
It is true that a ripper shatters the clay better if the soil is dry, and this is important if you're trying to break up the hardpan, but trenching will go easier if there is a little more moisture in the soil. You might need to lengthen the top link. If a ripper is pulled at the proper angle, it will self feed, and can actually apply a little "downpressure", increasing traction.

stan

jfakerj · Nov 19, 2001

Neil
Great looking pipe layer. I like the fact it's made out of steel and can be bolted on instead of clamped on. I think I'll make one just like it (but just a little longer pipe on the top side so I can go deeper) if you don't mind me stealing your idea. Best one I've seen.

Jerry

njrqs · Nov 20, 2001

Stan

yes I hear the length of the toplink has a great effect. Just not sure which way to adjust it. When on top of the ground, the ripper tooth points down at say a 45 degree angle. As the ripper gets deeper, the angle changes (I think??)

Jerry - OK you stone my idea. I bought it like that so you are stealing someone elses idea. Don't think the length of pipe would matter and theoreticaly there is no soil in the trench after the ripper has gone through. Don't go too long, as even with poly pipe, it isn't real flexible and you end up with it up in the air before it bends over.

I suspect that those middle busters etc. would remove more soil. The ripper just breaks it up.

Neil from OZ.

Bird · Nov 20, 2001

length of the toplink has a great effect. Just not sure which way to adjust it

The longer the top link, the shallower it will go and the shorter the top link, the deeper it'll go./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif