DK10SE HST Cab, which engine

[ck90211]

Hi everyone, newbie here. Thought a 1025R is all the tractor I ever need but want to get a new and reasonably priced heated/AC cab, bigger size for bigger root grapple (66-72"), and more lifting capacity to move a 2500 lb scissor lift over lawn/gravel. Was ready to buy a DK4210SE HST Cab but a dealer told me I'd happier going with a turbo engine (4710 or 5310) for extra torque especially if I ever get a bush hog or flail mower.

Appreciate any inputs or suggestions.

And how confident should I be with a DK10SE HST with 2500 lb load on 48" front forks, just lifting it high enough to move it. Or should try lifting it with rear 3 point pallet fork? I will have Rim Guard in the back tires and maybe another 500-800 lbs of rear ballast.

My budget ($35-40K) also permits me to look at used 2018'ish RX7320 or TYM654 which comes with self-leveling loader which I would like to have. No bumper to bumper warranty but will still have some powertrain warranty left.

I am in MD BTW. Thank you.

 

[Threepoint]

Welcome to TBN!

Without knowing your other expected uses beyond moving the scissors lift, it's hard to offer much help here, especially with engine choice.
Regarding lift, any of the DK10SE series will use the same loader, the KL5521, hence the same specs for lifting capacity. The engine size within the series won't affect that. Lift at full height is stated at 2474 lbs at the pins. 48" forks at a height of, say, 20" to carry the 2500 lb scissors lift over level ground would really be pushing the limits, IMO. Did your dealer offer a thought on that? Wondering if he might be willing to set up a demo to find out. Possibly bring the tractor to your place if not too far away.

As for other uses, like a rotary cutter or flail mower, I tend to agree with your dealer. One data point for you: My neighbor has a DK5310SE cab that he uses with a Woods 12' batwing mower rated for a minimum of 35 PTO hp. A great tractor, with 39.3 PTO hp, and it gets that job done, but slowly on any slight incline. If he had a do-over, I suspect he would go with the DK6010SE cab, or up a frame size to a NX6010HC.

He also has a 66" Everything Attachment Wicked Root Grapple on it, and loves the combination. I myself use an EA 66" Wicked Root Grapple on my NX and my CK tractors. You didn't ask for thoughts on grapple width, but I think you'd be quite happy with 66" rather than 72".

 

[ck90211]

Thank you Threepoint for giving me something to think about. My main use is rough terrain forklift for 2500 lb (scissor lift, full IBC water tote, shed/sauna or raised garden planters on pallets). I know I could buy an used forklift (that lifts a lot) for less but I have been wanting a bigger, cab tractor that can run bigger buckets (for mixing/spreading compost or gravel), wider grapple for yard cleaning (66" is good for my needs), a flail mower or lane shark to keep weeds/bushes down, and possibly a tiller/snow pusher when cheap.

I know my 2500 lb target is already at the upper threshold of DK10SE front lifting capacity (regardless of engine sizes), and adding fork weight only makes it worse. So I am hoping the rear 3 point lift might handle it better? The 2 dealers I visited/spoke to have been upfront; they just don't know how DK10SE's and forks do at limit.

NX seems to be a better choice (lift capacity wise) but I found none (new) in MD, VA or PA. New RX's is $10K more than my budget. So I am hoping a DK4210SE or DK4710SE HST Cab, either front or rear fork, will do the job. If not, then maybe a 4-5 year old RX or TYM T754/654.

Anyone with a DK10SE HST have experience lifting 2500 lbs with forks (front or back)? Thanks.

 

[Threepoint]

Maybe a TBN'r who's actually tried that can weigh in. Meantime, though, just looking at Kioti's specs for the 3-pt. lift capacity on any of the DK10SE series, I think you'd be very dissappointed in that frame size for your specific uses. The rated 3-pt lift is 2717 lbs at the standard 24" behind the hitch. While that sounds conservative to me, adding the weight of rear forks sturdy enough for your loads puts your totals well over the rated weight before you even begin to move. Then add the bouncing and weight shifts due to your rough terrain.

 

[ck90211]

Ah the bounces (I forgot). I guess I best have at least a 500 lbs overage (20% of 2500 lbs) on capacity just to be safe. Looks like a RX or TYM x54 frame size would better suit for my needs, and the self-leveling loader would probably keep whatever I am forking more balanced.

 

[TractorTYMe]

The TYM T654 is a very nice tractor, has the Deutz TCD2.9L4 engine in it to boot.

 

[Midniteoyl]

The least I would go for your usage is a NX. And given the budget, it would also be the max Your dealer can order one in. Obviously, the bigger RX will do better lifting and stability, but budget takes a severe hit, not to mention the big jump in weight if you're worried about the drive and yard. Also, in the NX line, once you hit the 55hp mark, theres an increase in weight and PTO is Cat 1&2. Basically it's 'supped up'.

 

[ck90211]

Midnoteoyl, you are right about beating up yard. I will be using it mostly on matured lawns so lighter tractor + turf tires better. I have not been able to locate a NX (new or used) within 100 miles from the DC area and kind of apprehensive about ordering something sight unseen. Seen a few RX's and T654's (on ag tires) and they definitely look beefy (and pricey).

I guess if I am spending $50K+ I'd be better off (capacity/safety wise) getting a used piggyback forklift to do my all terrain lifting, plus a smaller engine CK or DK cab tractor for my other tractoring needs.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Midnoteoyl, you are right about beating up yard. I will be using it mostly on matured lawns so lighter tractor + turf tires better. I have not been able to locate a NX (new or used) within 100 miles from the DC area and kind of apprehensive about ordering something sight unseen. Seen a few RX's and T654's (on ag tires) and they definitely look beefy (and pricey).

I guess if I am spending $50K+ I'd be better off (capacity/safety wise) getting a used piggyback forklift to do my all terrain lifting, plus a smaller engine CK or DK cab tractor for my other tractoring needs.

Does seem like for your use and limitations, 2 different machines would be best. I'd hit the dealers and classifies and give it a little more thought on exactly what I **need** to accomplish the goals.

 

[Threepoint]

[snip]I will be using it mostly on matured lawns so lighter tractor + turf tires better. I have not been able to locate a NX (new or used) within 100 miles from the DC area and kind of apprehensive about ordering something sight unseen.[snip]

Yes, ideally not something you want to order from just seeing photos and a video. I'd at least want to sit in the cab and operate it a bit. Heck, maybe even kick the tires.

Don't know where you are in MD, but if you're not too far from No. Va., you are welcome to visit my NX4510HST cab. It has the wide Titan R3 turf tires that Kioti offers, so you could see those at the same time. Even if in stock, NX tractors on a dealer's lot would most likely sport R4s or R1s. You probably already know that all the NX models have the same engine and base frame size, but with the engine tuned by ECM settings to adjust fuel delivery to the specific hp rating. As Midniteoyl notes, the NX55 and NX60 models have the beefier cat I/cat II 3-pt setup.

BTW, here's some more minutiae if you decide to look further at the NX series: The specs on Kioti's website for all NX models are given with R1 (Ag style) tires mounted, typical for CUT manufacters. For the NX55HST cab and NX60HST cab models, the specs show 2" more ground clearance than the NX4510HST cab and NX5010HST cab models. Since all NX models have the same base frame, that puzzled me until I learned that Kioti uses a larger rim and larger diameter R1 tire (by 4") for those two models when mounting R1 tires. Hence the 2" greater ground clearance! The overall height to top of cab must necessarily increase by 2" as well, so I'm virtually sure the height spec of 94.1" for those two models is an error. That could matter a lot if your tractor bay has an 8' garage door, as mine does!

However, when mounting R3 turf tires, Kioti uses the same rim and tire size for all NX models. (See attached screen shot). So, in your case, if you were to order the Titan R3s, you'd get the same tire and rim size, hence the same ground clearance, regardless of NX model.

 

[ck90211]

Thank you Threepoint for the invite. I am in country part of Montgomery County (ok maybe not too country but surrounded by horse folks). And this "new" house I just moved into is a 103 year old house with a 5 car garage and 12 ft shop door. So I have room for big toys (scissor lift, and a new tractor).

And just as I mentioned no NX to look at, a 2015 NX5510 HST Cab with 500 hrs came up for sale about 50 miles from me so I will take a look tomorrow. It comes with a bale spear and brush hog (in addition to front loader), so I presume it's a machine for a small farm/homestead with some animals.

Any advice on what to look for, what questions to ask (maintenance, operations, etc.), and what is a fair price? And what weight would the tractor + loader + brush hog be, so I can find a trailer or a flatbed to bring it home. Thanks again.

 

[Midniteoyl]

~4550lbs for the tractor and ~1450lbs for the loader, plus fluids, weights and attachments. If you dont know the weight of the bushhog, assume 750-1000lbs for a good 6'-7' medium duty one. So... 7000-7500lbs capacity = a 10klbs trailer needed (or 9990lbs depending on your state)

As for price, dunno.. Tractorhouse shows a 2017 NX5510 Cab with 350 hrs (may be 250) with an asking price of $29k

 

[ck90211]

Midniteoyl thanks for those weight number. It's a 6 ft Kioti bushhog I think. And thank you Threepoint for suggesting NX.

I bought it. One owner 513 hour (2015) NX5510 HST Cab that spent its entirety on a 35 acre horse farm shoveling poop and brush hogging (and seasonal bale moving). HST feels pretty smooth I was not able to replicate the HST jerky problem that has been reported on NX HST. All services were done back at the original selling dealer (they have a $200 flatbed pickup/delivery charge) which I might use at least for my first service. The seller is downsizing from this 35 acre near MD/PA border down to 8 acres in Ocala FL next week and had thought about taking the NX with. But they decided to have one less thing to move and sold it to me for $23K, so I have some money left to get a 10K GVWR trailer and some attachments, starting with pallet fork, grapple and 3rd function kit. And since it comes with a 6' bush hog I can hold off on a flail mower or a Lane Shark. It set outside all its life, so it can use a good wash, polishing/wax and a coat of Armor-All inside. But everything is functional and filled with Rim Guard ready to do some lifting.

Hope this NX is strong enough to do the 2500 lb lifting I am hoping to do. Or trading it in for a RX (if I get a good price and good trade in).

Need to find a way to get it home and I noticed gas falling to $3.63 (diesel for $4.39) in Westminster MD. So hopefully getting it home for no more than $200 (40 miles).

Thanks again y'all. Now time to get some NX toys.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Good buy. That Kioti bush hog is made by Woods, pretty sure. Good unit.

If those are the 17.5-24 tires, they are suppose to weight 590lbs each when filled, so add that to the weight: https://25hocqqai9f40uz013vrrbx1-wp...ds/2020/04/RimGuardBeetJuiceTireFillChart.pdf

 

[Threepoint]

Ck90211, congratulations. Very well done, especially in this current market. And it just happened to turn up yesterday, March 17, St. Paddy's Day! I'm guessing you must have some Irish somewhere in your family tree!

That model should serve your described needs well. At least if your IBC tote isn't 300 gal and filled to the lid. The R4s shouldn't be too rough on you mature lawn if you mostly stay off it when wet.

Study the owner's manual carefully; it's not too bad. Also, find out what you can about the regen history, i.e., when it last called for regen, how frequently lately, and how the owner typically handled it. E.g., continuing to work for 20 minutes or so, or setting the parking brake and manually initiating regen.

Oh, and keep us posted, so we can vicariously enjoy your new ride with you!

 

[ck90211]

Will do, trying to learn about all the fluids/filters and so many buttons on manuals. Already seeing debates about what are the best fluids (Synthetic vs blend, and Delvac vs. Rotella vs. Tractor Supply) for HST and CDI and hydraulics. And thinking about spending some money to download NX shop manuals so I can see what is in an NX.

A dumb question (which I probably should take to a different forum). I would like to install a factory 3rd function kit. Found a CK install video on Youtube where one of the rear wheel was removed to gain access to hydraulics. If NX is the same, and if I were to DIY this install, would I have to drain the rim guard out of the tire first, before attempting to lift and remove the wheel? I have a Genie duct lift (it's like a hand winch forklift that can hold 800 lbs), or can use a 1500 lb rated creeper type of wheel dolly to move the wheel + ballast. Or should I just forget DIY and pay the $99/hour + parts to let dealer do it?

Thanks for any inputs.

 

[PEJ5]

Congratulations on the NX5510. It is just barely broken in . I have a 2016 DK5010 and am happy with its capacity.

I can lift a 5gal can of fuel with a bent elbow (for a few seconds!!), but I cannot hold it with an outstretched arm - 3' out. Here is an easy way to calculate the loader lift capacity with an IBC tote on the forks. Your loader arms to the pins are 6.5' long x the 2761 lb NX capacity equals approximately 18,000 ft-lbs. The center of an IBC tote on forks is out 2' further so 18,000 divided by the 8.5' equals 2100 lbs fork capability. Supposedly that is to full height (don't try it!!) so you may get a 2500 lb tote a foot or two off the ground. The forks weigh 200 lb so maybe not.
These are rough calculations and I am NOT a civil engineer so no promises.

There are two other factors.
1. You will only be able to lift the rated capacity if your hydraulic bypass is tuned just right. It may bypass at 2500lbs and that will reduce the calculation above. I can lift about 1850 lbs on my forks rather than the calculated 2000 for that very reason. (I experimented with a load of sheetrock and kept removing a sheet until I could lift the load.)
2. When lifting heavy loads with your loader, you will need a very heavy counter balance on your 3pt hitch in order to keep your rear wheels from lifting and also to not stress your front axle. I have loaded tires plus a 1300 lb block of concrete on my 3pt. The 1850 lbs of sheetrock in my experiment left me feeling light and unstable in the rear. I recommend you go with 1600 to 1800 lbs.
Hope this helps.

 

[ck90211]

Hi PEJ5 thanks for doing some calculations and got me reliving Physics classes (unfortunately most I remember is how dreadful 8 am Physics class/quizzes/tests were in Minnesota).

Now that I bought a NX instead of just thinking which one, I guess a good way to test is start off with an empty IBC tote and start filling it up, and take periodic lift/drive test to see how much it can lift with the specific fork set up and maybe even drive it around the terrain I expect to be using (and see if water sloshing around would affect anything). And if it doesn't come close to what I need it to do, I can always go back to find a used piggyback forklift, or trade up to a RX. Or just put whatever 2500 lbs on a trailer and tow.

 

[PEJ5]

Hi PEJ5 thanks for doing some calculations and got me reliving Physics classes (unfortunately most I remember is how dreadful 8 am Physics class/quizzes/tests were in Minnesota).

Now that I bought a NX instead of just thinking which one, I guess a good way to test is start off with an empty IBC tote and start filling it up, and take periodic lift/drive test to see how much it can lift with the specific fork set up and maybe even drive it around the terrain I expect to be using (and see if water sloshing around would affect anything). And if it doesn't come close to what I need it to do, I can always go back to find a used piggyback forklift, or trade up to a RX. Or just put whatever 2500 lbs on a trailer and tow.

I expect purchasing a second tote and only filling them both 2/3rds full may be slightly cheaper than buying an RX?!?

 

[ck90211]

Ha yes another IBC tote and a little more fuel is a lot cheaper than buying an RX. I think I was using the 2500 lb line to size a step-up tractor (from a JD 1025R) that I will be happy with, and NX is that. I'd like self-leveling loader (of RX) but not for $50K; so I will have something to envy.

I added weight and dimensions and think it will be within 21ft and 8000 lbs with bucket, rim guard and 6' bush cutter. Found a towing company who will transport it 40 miles for $350 so I don't have to hunt down a 10K trailer or rigging/tie down. But having done the math and considering my Tundra can only tow up to 10,300 lbs, I best look for an 10K aluminum trailer that's under 2000 lbs. Crazy aluminum prices, even crazier aluminum trailer prices. Maybe a nice used one will come up just like this NX.