Dowsing, Devining, 'Witching' for Water

[Depmandog]

If you do win the million dollars, I would appreciate a small token gratuity, as I posted the actual sign up form, right here on this thread...:licking:

Hey, you have to share with me! I am the one who broke the news the prize money had climbed to ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

Small bills please. I'd like to keep this off the books...if ya know what I mean

 

[rtimgray]

So with all of these people that can locate buried pipes and water and whatever else with coat hangers/brazing rods/willow branches/etc., why will nobody go take the million bucks - because they say "Well, even if I demonstrate my ability, they won't pay anyway." ? C'mon....

I work at an industrial manufacturer that has been at the same site since the mid-60's. We have multiple types of pipeline running in and out and all around the building. Every time we do work outside, we call the BUD number, but they only locate the utility owned portion of the lines. Things like our process water lines, fire sprinkler loops around the building, electrical conduits, etc. are all ours to find.

I have witnessed dozens of folks "witch" a line - and I have seen some success and many, many more failures. And often times, the success, I feel, is not all that convincing. We have had somebody mark the line, we dig with a backhoe, then end up digging a few feet to side of the original mark, and lo and behold there's a line. But it wasn't EXACTLY where it was predicted to be, and many of the times, we have a general idea of where a line is running (we can see a pipe coming out of the building and going underground, etc.).

Personally, I am not a believer in witching or dowsing any more than I am a believer in luck. I think a lot of witching/dowsing skills benefit from selective memory - that is, we remember the successes and forget the failures. However, I am willing to believe. If someone goes and wins the challenge, I will agree that the talent really and truly exists.

Good luck and take care.

 

[check]

So with all of these people that can locate buried pipes and water and whatever else with coat hangers/brazing rods/willow branches/etc., why will nobody go take the million bucks - because they say "Well, even if I demonstrate my ability, they won't pay anyway." ? C'mon.... I work at an industrial manufacturer that has been at the same site since the mid-60's. We have multiple types of pipeline running in and out and all around the building. Every time we do work outside, we call the BUD number, but they only locate the utility owned portion of the lines. Things like our process water lines, fire sprinkler loops around the building, electrical conduits, etc. are all ours to find. I have witnessed dozens of folks "witch" a line - and I have seen some success and many, many more failures. And often times, the success, I feel, is not all that convincing. We have had somebody mark the line, we dig with a backhoe, then end up digging a few feet to side of the original mark, and lo and behold there's a line. But it wasn't EXACTLY where it was predicted to be, and many of the times, we have a general idea of where a line is running (we can see a pipe coming out of the building and going underground, etc.). Personally, I am not a believer in witching or dowsing any more than I am a believer in luck. I think a lot of witching/dowsing skills benefit from selective memory - that is, we remember the successes and forget the failures. However, I am willing to believe. If someone goes and wins the challenge, I will agree that the talent really and truly exists. Good luck and take care.

No one will win 1 million bucks because there's nothing magical about it. It's just plain old magnetic field's at work, and of course the people running the show will determine that ahead of time, and disqualify it from consideration.

 

[rtimgray]

This cut and pasted from Wikipedia, and I not verified its veracity:

In 1979 Randi tested four people in Italy for dowsing ability (Mr. Fontana, Dr. Borga, Mr. Stanziola, and Mr. Senatore). The prize at the time was $10,000. The conditions were that a 10 meter by 10 meter test area would be used. There would be water supply and a reservoir just outside the test area. There would be three plastic pipes running underground from the source to the reservoir along different concealed paths. Each pipe would pass through the test area by entering at some point on an edge and exiting at some point on an edge. A pipe would not cross itself but it might cross others. The pipes were 3 centimeters in diameter and were buried 50 centimeters below ground. Valves would select which of the pipes water was running through, and only one would be selected at a time. At least 5 liters per second of water would flow through the selected pipe. The dowser must first check the area to see if there is any natural water or anything else that would interfere with the test, and that would be marked. Additionally, the dowser must demonstrate that the dowsing reaction works on an exposed pipe with the water running. Then one of the three pipes would be selected randomly for each trial. The dowser would place ten to one hundred pegs in the ground along the path he or she traces as the path of the active pipe. Two-thirds of the pegs placed by the dowser must be within 10 centimeters of the center of the pipe being traced for the trial to be a success. Three trials would be done for the test of each dowser and the dowser must pass two of the three trials to pass the test. A lawyer was present, in possession of Randi's $10,000 check. If a claimant were successful, the lawyer would give him or her the check. If none were successful, the check would be returned to Randi.

All of the dowsers agreed with the conditions of the test and stated that they felt able to perform the test that day and that the water flow was sufficient. Before the test they were asked how sure they were that they would succeed. All said either "99 percent" or "100 percent" certain. They were asked what they would conclude if the water flow was 90 degrees from what they thought it was and all said that it was impossible. After the test they were asked how confident they were that they had passed the test. Three answered "100 percent" and one answered that he had not completed the test.

When all of the tests were over and the location of the pipes was revealed, none of the dowsers had passed the test. Dr. Borga had placed his markers carefully, but the nearest was a full 8 feet from the water pipe. Borga said, "We are lost", but within two minutes he started blaming his failure on many things such as sunspots and geomagnetic variables. Two of the dowsers thought they had found natural water before the test started, but disagreed with each other about where it was, as well as with the ones who found no natural water.

I've found some evidence of other tests, and all of the ones that I have found rate that the dowsers have no better luck than average chance at locating water or a pipeline. I have yet to find a test that conclusively indicates the success of dowsing or divining - I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I can't find it.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Well, I am willing to keep an open mind, I think there are many many scientific principals that we don't understand, and many phenomena we cannot explain. I just don't understand why those of you that say you can do it, are not signing up. I say I cannot do it. I have tried many times.. perhaps I don't have the right frame of mind, perhaps I am not "charged" properly, for whatever reason, I can't find metal, I can't find water, I can't find anything of value. I have found some trouble over the years.

But I would sign up for a double blind test in a heartbeat if I though I could prevail.

I know many things, I know that most people have no observational powers to speak of, I know that most people did not learn scientific method in school.

I know that most people are the least reliable witness's when it comes to observing and relating what they observed. I know the human brain tries to make order out of anything it senses even when that order is a "falsehood". And I know that most people are "set in their ways" and even if shown beyond a shadow of a doubt the way they observe their world is false, and their conclusions are false, their minds will not be changed.

These are the lessons I have learned through the years.


I am from Missouri.. and you know what they call this state? It is called the "Show Me" state.

I have a modicum of training in the scientific method and spent more than a decade as a technician/Chemist in an industrial research facility doing analysis, microbial research, and process improvement research. I can testify that my experiences with the rods are real, and the pull of the green branch is significant. Now, I am willing to be tested and am willing to be shown that my conclusions are wrong...even more importantly, I would like to know exactly what is being detected.

I know the rods will detect (or to be scientifically correct, they "react" to) overhead electric lines and a 12 - 15 foot deep city sewer line, and an underground electric line. There is one place in my yard, next to a creek that I believe water is detected, and another place where I have no clue what is making the rods react. I also believe they react to some old lateral lines, that to my knowledge are empty. So, I can't say for sure what is the exact cause and effect, but I'm sure there are both. I am even open minded enough to be shown that I am unconsciously causing the reaction, but at this point I don't believe it to be so.

 

[check]

I really doubt that this witching business works with water in a plastic pipe. I am no Physics expert, but I believe that what you are looking for must have some sort of electromagnetic field surrounding it.

 

[s219]

I really doubt that this witching business works with water in a plastic pipe. I am no Physics expert, but I believe that what you are looking for must have some sort of electromagnetic field surrounding it.

The pipe doesn't matter (don't even need a pipe) -- it's the flowing water itself that throws off an electromagnetic field.

 

[k0ua]

Hey, you have to share with me! I am the one who broke the news the prize money had climbed to ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

Small bills please. I'd like to keep this off the books...if ya know what I mean

Dean we can work out the sharing details when we get our mitts on some of the green stuff

 

[MossRoad]

No one will win 1 million bucks because there's nothing magical about it. It's just plain old magnetic field's at work, and of course the people running the show will determine that ahead of time, and disqualify it from consideration.

Why don't you go down there for us and prove them to be dishonest?

 

[check]

Why don't you go down there for us and prove them to be dishonest?

Why would I want to do that? They are not dishonest. They will just insist that, if you want to win the prize, you have to be able to do something the Plain old science cannot explain.