Driverless Cars

[Gale Hawkins]

Autonomous Vehicle Hardware Summit | Kisaco Research

While I doubt any here are interested in shelling out the money to attend this event I post it just to show how the autonomous vehicle is far beyond the backyard hobby shop phase.

There is a reason Ford and VW are coming together so they do not total miss the autonomous EV market that is out pacing 100 year old IC engine driven car companies. Companies like GM, Ford, VW, etc may not even be players by 2050 if they make serious missteps in the next 2-4 years. Engines, transmissions and the rest of the drive line parts just no longer apply.

Software will be the brains of the EV and I expect China may be the long term winner. Who would have thought 10-15 years ago we would have a thread on EC's (electric chainsaws) and have them in our hands today? Where are the parts in today's EC's coming from?

 

[Reg]

Business-wise, I find this point very interesting.....

Much of the billions that vehicle companies have made centre around marketing lifestyle products to us "unique individuals".......

So.... what happens to their profit margins when a big chunk of the "driving" public is only using autonomous fleets of appliances ? The corporations that own those fleets are only going to care about 2 things..... Cost, and Reliability.

I'm used to this kind of race-to-the-bottom with electronics companies, but I thought the vehicle manufacturers were smarter than that.....

Rgds, D.

Not smarter at all, I think Ford and GM have already seen the light at the end of the tunnel as what may well be the express train coming toward them. No more gas passenger cars from Ford, no more hybrids from GM, etc.

As far as having an electric vehicle of my own, yes the range is clearly adequate for MOST of my driving.
It would take a minor change of habit to actually untangle a cord each night and plug it in and of course unplug it before driving off on a sleepy morning, but cordless charging will solve that - probably before I actually buy an electric vehicle.
Right now I think I would want a generator about the size of a chain saw in the trunk for emergency charging, just in case I screw up - hey, I've run out of gas a few times over the decades so it COULD happen (-:


BTW my own career includes being an "on site resident" hardware engineer on main frames(which had a LOT less power than is now in a cell phone).
I know more than a little bit about technology obviating the need for skill and experience.

 

[Oaktree]

Not smarter at all, I think Ford and GM have already seen the light at the end of the tunnel as what may well be the express train coming toward them. No more gas passenger cars from Ford, no more hybrids from GM, etc.

Not really sure what you mean by the tunnel/train analogy. Yes, sedan sales are soft, with truck and pseudo-SUVs the strong sellers these days, but gas is cheap today. What'll happen if prices spike again (and we know it will)? These companies are gonna be caught flat-footed like they were during the 70s gas crisis.

As far as having an electric vehicle of my own, yes the range is clearly adequate for MOST of my driving.
It would take a minor change of habit to actually untangle a cord each night and plug it in and of course unplug it before driving off on a sleepy morning, but cordless charging will solve that - probably before I actually buy an electric vehicle.

Key word here, "most". What would you do if you needed to take a trip longer than a couple hundred miles, or to somewhere lacking quick-charge facilities (such as an off-the-grid camp)? I've never even seen a Tesla in real life, let alone driven one, but I'd imagine the range drops considerably in either hot (A/C) or cold (heater) weather.
I always wondered why the technology GM used in the Volt (ie-electrically powered, but an on-board generator) didn't catch on. To me it makes waaay more sense than a straight electric that needs to be charged with shore power. How long does a "fillup" take? I'm under the impression it's several hours, even with the high-current "fast" chargers.

Getting back to the viability of autonomous vehicles...I'm sure someday the technology will improve to the point where they're at least somewhat capable (at least in urban/suburban areas), but is there a market for them other than those who need to be the first on their block to have the latest gadget? .
Again, maybe for city dwellers or others where owning a vehicle is more of a hassle than it's worth this might make sense, but I just don't see it happening in my lifetime out here in the sticks.

 

[LouNY]

Not really sure what you mean by the tunnel/train analogy. Yes, sedan sales are soft, with truck and pseudo-SUVs the strong sellers these days, but gas is cheap today. What'll happen if prices spike again (and we know it will)? These companies are gonna be caught flat-footed like they were during the 70s gas crisis.



Key word here, "most". What would you do if you needed to take a trip longer than a couple hundred miles, or to somewhere lacking quick-charge facilities (such as an off-the-grid camp)? I've never even seen a Tesla in real life, let alone driven one, but I'd imagine the range drops considerably in either hot (A/C) or cold (heater) weather.
I always wondered why the technology GM used in the Volt (ie-electrically powered, but an on-board generator) didn't catch on. To me it makes waaay more sense than a straight electric that needs to be charged with shore power. How long does a "fillup" take? I'm under the impression it's several hours, even with the high-current "fast" chargers.

Getting back to the viability of autonomous vehicles...I'm sure someday the technology will improve to the point where they're at least somewhat capable (at least in urban/suburban areas), but is there a market for them other than those who need to be the first on their block to have the latest gadget? .
Again, maybe for city dwellers or others where owning a vehicle is more of a hassle than it's worth this might make sense, but I just don't see it happening in my lifetime out here in the sticks.

Couldn't agree more, especially with the electrically power with an on board generator.
I have thought for many years that a 35-45 hp diesel tuned for a small rpm range on a generator in an electric vehicle would be the best.
I will look at electric when it has a true 4wd drive and a excellent heating system with a decent range say 200-250 miles with heat on and wipers and defrosters going in a snow storm.

 

[Reg]

The light at the end of the tunnel joke is so old that it is probably forgotten by many.

WRT the gas crunch in the 70s and hybrid vehicles; I remember the Renault "Le Car" (Renault 5 in Europe) that were converted to run with an even smaller engine charging a battery pack and driving through IIRC aircraft engine starter motors.
I still LIKE the idea of a small gas engine that puts out very little power, but buffers it to a battery for PEAK power demand.

The other thing I haven't seen exploited much is that the area of hood, roof and trunk lids could be used as solar collectors - possibly collecting enough "free" energy while folk are at their place of work for the drive home.
A local company has provided shaded parking for many of their employees, utilizing the roof for solar collectors.
Popular with the employees in summer and winter.

 

[LD48750]

How would one do out here in the country with no garage, 8-12 inches of unplowed 1/4 mile long drive to gravel roads in below 0 temps?

 

[Jstpssng]

Couldn't agree more, especially with the electrically power with an on board generator.
I have thought for many years that a 35-45 hp diesel tuned for a small rpm range on a generator in an electric vehicle would be the best.
I will look at electric when it has a true 4wd drive and a excellent heating system with a decent range say 200-250 miles with heat on and wipers and defrosters going in a snow storm.

I've always said the same thing. They've been doing it with locomotives for decades. Considering that both of the Kubotas I've owned only burned 2 quarts of fuel per hour when operating at 2200RPMs, at 50mph that would be about 100 miles/gallon.

How would one do out here in the country with no garage, 8-12 inches of unplowed 1/4 mile long drive to gravel roads in below 0 temps?

That's one of many reasons why it's your second vehicle. You plow the driveway first with your diesel F350.
I have yet to find out how much things like cabin climate control, headlights, windshield wipers et.al. reduce the travelling range.

About 25 years ago the University of Maine had an older S-10 regular cab which was solar powered; the panel covered the entire pickup bed.
More recently on the History channel they showed the military experimenting with lithium power Humvees; with a motor for each wheel, all operating independently they would spin it right around in a circle.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

How would one do out here in the country with no garage, 8-12 inches of unplowed 1/4 mile long drive to gravel roads in below 0 temps?

About the same as they do with a gas engine I expect. I would love to own the EV 2014 Ford F-150 600 HP PU they had at a major car show.

 

[Reg]

How would one do out here in the country with no garage, 8-12 inches of unplowed 1/4 mile long drive to gravel roads in below 0 temps?

I would PROBABLY watch the charge level indicator and IIRC the Teslas (maybe others) display available range and map to closest charge station.

OTOH, if I had little more than a fishing shack DEEP in the woods ...the chances are GOOD that I would have a 5 or 10 HP generator there ANYWAY for comfort and survival reasons.
Of course a 5 gallon can of reasonably fresh gas on hand, etc.
If not; well, we can imagine survival situations that are impossible to get out of, so just don't get into them.

 

[Redneck in training]

Heating of the EV is not a problem because of the motor(s) and possibly some of the electronics are liquid cooled. In other words there is a waste heat available for heating.
Speaking about electronics. I commission rotating machinery for living. I remember time when VFD used to be a monster installed in several cabinets with high number of water cooled thyristors. VFD for about the same power takes about half empty cabinet today. Only those for big motors are liquid cooled.