Dump trailer angle of the dangle

[Artisan]

So, I need to figure out how to calc a hydraulic cylinder for
a dump trailer and all the angles so it works. This thing is about 8'
or so long and about 3-4' wide.

The blue is the moving tilting dump bed.

The lower white is the fixed trailer bottom.

The magenta color represents a cylinder w/ a 12" stroke.
The extended and collapsed measurements are per mfg in lenght real time.

If I do it the way I have drawn there is 11* of angle when closed and
45* of angle when open.

Yes, No?

Is 11* enough to initiate a lift?
Is 45* high enough to dump dirt?

I want to use the BH hoses on my BX25 to power this.

How do I calc what size cylinder I need?

 

[davedj1]

I think when I built my dump trailer I ended up with about 13*, don't quote me on that though. I know I don't dump to 45*, somewhere around 40*. I have dumped it full of wood and no problems.
Mine is 10' long, 5'-8" wide and 2' sides.
I will tell you the more angle of the dangle you can get in the down position the happier you will be. Mine is a low profile so I couldn't get any more, I have a 24" stroke ram.

 

[Stimw]

I have worked on many different types of dump equipment from small dump trucks to large dump trucks to scissor/dump (the kind that the whole platform raises up to roof top level or it will dump) trucks to 38' semi dump trailers.
My best advice and how I would approach it would be to find something similar in size and copy it. There is a lot of geometry involved and it would be much easier to let someone else sort it out.
Some even use compound arms and rollers to go from level to full dump. It always seemed to me that the starting lift would take so much more pressure than 50% on up.

 

[Artisan]

Stim I would if I could I guess...

there must be some formulas regarding this ...

 

[Artisan]

Thanx Dave, I want to try to keep the ground clearance uniform.
I"might" be able to push the upper mount up a tad and perhaps get 13-13*.

 

[Artisan]

I dunno...I hope a seasoned trailer builder sees this and gives
me an opinion. I keep looking at this and it almost seems like I
should go w/ a long stroke and move the cylinder forward.
Additionally in reading I see several guys suggesting that
45* is not enough for sticky dirt, but more like 60* is
better...

I just do not know so I ask !

 

[pat32rf]

Right now my two " dump trailers" consist of homemade ( strong!) utility trailers that get dumped using my FEL.....
I need at least 60deg to get damp dirt to move with either a wood or steel bottom box.
And yes, once you get above 45 deg the force needed drops off quickly. If you have a front cylinder on your box you will start out by lifting 1/2 the weight of the box and its contents....

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Here is a link to a dump trailer I built a couple of years ago http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/161183-tandem-axle-wagon-build.html . You need at least 60 to 70 deg of angle to get dirt to come out. I am sure a mechanical engineer could tell you exactly how to position your cyl. but that would make things to easy . I did mine by trial and error. Every thing works great. I can heap it up with dirt untill it is running over all 4 sides and still don't have a problem dumping it.
Bill

 

[swick1]

I'll send you a spreadsheet on how to do it tomorrow if nobody beats me to it. You can line it with vinyl flooring if you want to dump something sticky.

Basically you want to raise the deck and lower the frame to get a better angle. You can use helper springs too

 

[Leejohn]

Are you going to use it with your BX or something else? Did you see the picture of the one I just made for my BX?

 

[600rider]

here is the link to the dump trailer that I built last summer and in it it will show where I positioned my cylinder. Although my cylinder is mounted opposite of the drawing you made. I just filled it to over flowing with sticky clay soil and it came right out!!! I have a "hydraulic power pack on mine and 12 volt battery. There are even links to videos on youtube in my build.


http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/204019-my-version-kk-xb-dump.html?highlight=

 

[magicheater]

Right now my two " dump trailers" consist of homemade ( strong!) utility trailers that get dumped using my FEL.....
I need at least 60deg to get damp dirt to move with either a wood or steel bottom box.
And yes, once you get above 45 deg the force needed drops off quickly. If you have a front cylinder on your box you will start out by lifting 1/2 the weight of the box and its contents....

Here is a link to a dump trailer I built a couple of years ago http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/161183-tandem-axle-wagon-build.html . You need at least 60 to 70 deg of angle to get dirt to come out. I am sure a mechanical engineer could tell you exactly how to position your cyl. but that would make things to easy . I did mine by trial and error. Every thing works great. I can heap it up with dirt untill it is running over all 4 sides and still don't have a problem dumping it.
Bill

I dunno...I hope a seasoned trailer builder sees this and gives
me an opinion. I keep looking at this and it almost seems like I
should go w/ a long stroke and move the cylinder forward.
Additionally in reading I see several guys suggesting that
45* is not enough for sticky dirt, but more like 60* is
better...

I just do not know so I ask !

I have to concur with the 60* posters but realistically you could get by with 50* using common sense, more angle is better when it comes to dirt though. You also have to consider the uphill or downhill dumping scenarios which really makes the max angle critical. A scissors lift may give the best result. After all it is just a dump "trailer" and not a dump "truck" If you really want to go all out, install a vibratory device to help evacuate the material of choice.

 

[MJPetersen]

When I originally planned to make my dump trailer I was thinking that I wanted to keep things as low as possible, but also struggled to get sufficient angle to lift a full load and to get adequate dump angle to empty the box. I planned to use a scissor lift because you can get more lift power and range from a large diameter cylinder, but with a short stroke. (But then I found the telescoping cylinder which change my plan.) If you use a longer cylinder you compound your problem, because you must move the mounting points even further outside of the hinge pivot line to maintain or increase the initial lift angle.

One thing that I did to improve the initial lift angle was to lower the pivot point. This is a very effective way to increase the angle without lowering the ground clearance. I included a picture of what I did for my lower pivot point. I noticed that your pivot is directly at the end of the frame, but if you lower it a couple of inches it will greatly increase the angle and lower lift pressure requirements. My goal was to have nothing below the axle height.

I have about 55 degrees of dump angle and that is not too much. I wish for more, although I have only been dumping sand at this stage--to be honest the rough rust surface tends to hold the material more too, so when it is cleaned and painted it will be better.

I included a couple of pictures of someone else's trailer that was inspiring my thoughts about a scissor lift. I am very sorry that I do not remember from whom I stole these pictures and ideas. :ashamed:

Mike

 

[Artisan]

Thanx for the input all.

Very nice Bill. Did your ribs recover ok? Oh boy....

LeeJohn no, I did not see what you speak of, I would like to see it!

Thank you swick, I will look forward to reviewing it.

Looks like I need to go big. Bigger cylinder and more angle.
I will pick a bigger cylinder and draw in more angle and then
decide on things I guess.

Yes, I want to use my BX25 as the power source for the cylinder.

 

[bcp]

If you are building or modifying the trailer box, make it slightly tapered so it will dump easier.

Bruce

 

[Artisan]

Bruce you are one smart cookie!

I redrew things incorporating in a 24" stroke cylinder and moving
the lower cylinder anchor to the axle, which is 2.25" square tube
and VERY thick. I can not see just how thick but one tap and a
guy knows it is at least .25" wall and I would not be surprised
if it were .375" wall. I can strongback the axle top and rear too.
So the initial push has to start at 12*. Granted more would be ideal
but I can not gain too much more w/o loosing ground clearance.

I included a picture of the running gear I recently bought from
the Marines. It is a $3200.00 unit, all mine for $225.00. They
use these for generators. Once the generator is offloaded
to probably a ship, the trailer is no longer wanted...


Anyone see anything NO GO about this?

 

[Leejohn]

Looks like a go there. Are you having a overhang at the back,if so why? If it was me I would not. I did check my trailers and both are right at 16 deg. On the bigger one it dumps to 58 deg. the small not sure but it's close to the same. I did put sheet metal over the wood floor on the one for the BX and it dumps nice.

 

[Artisan]

The overhang is not decided upon yet...

 

[Leejohn]

I would think that over real good. I would go ahead and bridge the axle in back if that is where you are hooking the cyl. base.

 

[swick1]

You can raise the bed to make the overhang no problemo. I have been working all weekend but I found the spreadsheet and will post it in the morning. It models overhang and cylinder angle to calculate the Max. Load.