Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.

[davrow]

Until a truly decent solution to power the grid is put into place, electric cars will remain a stupid environmental disaster to own or operate. They are idiotic to say the least and only someone who knows nothing of physics would ever allow themselves to be hoodwinked into buying or owning one must less operating one. If it weren't for subsidies paid for by us taxpayers electric cars would not exist and every company producing one would be bankrupt and out of business as they should be. Electric cars are nothing more than an idiotic ruse played on ignorant people who are devoid of common sense.

Someday I'll tell ya what I really feel about electric cars.

Just call me an idiot. :laughing: I've been driving electric for 15 years, and both cars performed flawlessly, required zero maintenance, and saved me significant ownership dollars. :thumbsup:

 

[California]

No fair citing real-world experience to counter that rant.

You aren't the idiot ....

 

[fidowanttobe]

Just call me an idiot. :laughing: I've been driving electric for 15 years, and both cars performed flawlessly, required zero maintenance, and saved me significant ownership dollars. :thumbsup:

15 years?? Tell me more! I know less than nothing about them.
What are they, cost, cruising speed, payload, range, etc. etc.
My wife and I each run 35 miles round trip each day. I need a truck, she drives a car. Now she is hinting HARD that she wants an ultra mileage car like a (gag, swallow, swallow) SMART CAR! (insert bullet to my brain here) But, its HER car. Would an electric work for her? Gets cold up here ya know.

 

[California]

As somebody mentioned above - if there is a real risk of freezing to death stranded on the road then an IC engine reduces that risk.

Smart Car doesn't seem like a highway car to me.

 

[dickfoster]

Just call me an idiot. :laughing: I've been driving electric for 15 years, and both cars performed flawlessly, required zero maintenance, and saved me significant ownership dollars. :thumbsup:

How does that have anything to do with net pollution or sucking up taxpayer dollars at someone else's expense? Maybe it would be considered smart if I drove down and burglarized your home. After all I would be money ahead and since that seems to be the only thing that counts it would be good and considered the right thing to do.

That's the trouble in a nutshell. The deluded are intent on continuously deluding themselves in order to maintain the delusion.

Try looking into the facts, physics and true economic issues involved.

 

[dickfoster]

As somebody mentioned above - if there is a real risk of freezing to death stranded on the road then an IC engine reduces that risk.

Smart Car doesn't seem like a highway car to me.

The so called Smart car is a highway car only for those who have a death wish. :laughing:

 

[reb]

... If the motor uses 50 kW and has 97% efficiency there is 1.5 kW of heat that can be used to heat the car....

My arithmetic says 50 kW is about 67 horsepower. I doubt the car uses that much power when cruising down the road. As I recall, about 1/10 of that is required for the typical car.

 

[newbury]

The so called Smart car is a highway car

The Smart car was built and designed for Europe so it could be parked perpendicular to the curb where all longer cars had to park parallel.

 

[Redneck in training]

We owned three Buick Regals with 3.8 l V6 of various vintages. The first two were the least troublesome cars we ever owned and we gave them away for free at more than 240000 miles. The last one (1999) has 140000 and is not as good as the older models.
I rented LaCrosse hybrid about six months ago and I was quite impressed with the car.
We owned several Japanese cars such As Nissan Sentra, Honda Accord, and Subaru Outback. All of those were OK to about 150000 and then just fell apart. Nissan had transmission noise and later on suffered complete tranny failure, Honda Accord rusted and had engine issues the dealer was not able to fix, Subaru was $100/month in repairs such as leaks, sensor failures etc. We were quite happy to get rid of it after my wife reaerended a pickup truck.

We bought our first used Buick (in 2000) after I got a contract job at Buick assembly plant and saw how they were made. Even the powerhouse (that is usually a mess in car assembly plant) was nice, organized and clean. Here is a story I heard: The plant got new manager who came from military. The first thing he did he took away golf cars from the foremen and supervisors. Reason being they just cruised trough the plant and didn't talk to their people about issues.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

How does that have anything to do with net pollution or sucking up taxpayer dollars at someone else's expense? Maybe it would be considered smart if I drove down and burglarized your home. After all I would be money ahead and since that seems to be the only thing that counts it would be good and considered the right thing to do.

That's the trouble in a nutshell. The deluded are intent on continuously deluding themselves in order to maintain the delusion.

Try looking into the facts, physics and true economic issues involved.

Regarding you second paragraph: Please tell me you can see at least the potential for extreme irony in this statement.

I'm not asking you to admit that you are the deluded one; but if you were, you wouldn't know it would you?

 

[sd455dan]

No fair citing real-world experience to counter that rant.

You aren't the idiot ....

Don't own a hybrid or electric but would consider one in the future .
I see the Prius IS still rated the most reliable car- and has been for Many years by Consumer reports...
2016 model they averaged 52 MPG overall, not bad even- if they are not the best looking car

 

[buickanddeere]

I didn't realize they had an all-electric car called the bolt. I thought their all-electric was the spark, but I see now that it has a gas engine. Why would you call a car a "spark" and it not be an electric car?

If I was going to buy an electric car it would have to be the volt, at least then you can recharge it on the go. I couldn't imagine having to wait for a car to charge on a road trip.

On a side note, I did notice a few weeks ago that the nearby gas station where I buy my ethanol-free gas and off-road diesel now has an electric charging station.

Volt does not fully charge the battery pack while on the gas engine . Mountain mode will charge to 20-30% iirc plus what ever regenerative braking adds.
The Volt requires utility power to charge.

 

[buickanddeere]

Heat is not big problem I suppose. The electric motors generate some heat. In fact, the Tesla motor is water cooled. If the motor uses 50 kW and has 97% efficiency there is 1.5 kW of heat that can be used to heat the car. I need to reserach the AC but I think it should't be a problem either. My house of 2500 sqft has 5 kW compressor. Car is about 25 sqft so even with less insulation AC shouldn't be a big hit on energy comsumption.
Since the AC in electric cars is stand alone unit it could be powered by solar integrated into the car roof and work even when the car is parked. Wouldn't you prefer to get into precooled car at hot summer day? And you could leave your baby or dog in the car too.

There is not enough area on the roof of a EV to place enough solar panels to provide any useful charge. Even when not parked in the shade and the sun directly over head.
The "heat" recovered from the motor, inverter and battery pack is low quality due to the low temperatures. Not enough to defrost or defog windows in the winter.

 

[buickanddeere]

Just call me an idiot. :laughing: I've been driving electric for 15 years, and both cars performed flawlessly, required zero maintenance, and saved me significant ownership dollars. :thumbsup:

Zero maintenance ? Saved ownership dollars, how ? Are you comparing an EV to a mid 1970's big block pickup truck ?

 

[buickanddeere]

My arithmetic says 50 kW is about 67 horsepower. I doubt the car uses that much power when cruising down the road. As I recall, about 1/10 of that is required for the typical car.

Good point, the Bolt's battery is rated for 60Kwhr which would operate hot and last maybe 30-35 minutes with a 50Kw load. The charge discharge system doesn't even fully charge or discharge the battery pack to extend service life. 12-15kw per hour for three hours is about max.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I was initially excited about the Bolt,,,,,that is until I saw the price. Even at the taxpayer robbed price. The Volt costs about the same.

Even if I got free electricity, It is no where cost efficient overall.

It is not even half the car that a Tesla is.

I had an electric golf car,,,once. After the 2nd set of batteries went out, I sold it. Have a gas powered gator now. Never looked back.

 

[California]

Agree the Tesla is a far better car. But Bolt is similar capabilities at 1/3 the price.

It's sort of the modern equivalent of the 6-cylinder rubber-floormats $1.900 versions of cars of the past. (You could order a 55 Chev coupe with no back seat!). If all you need is to haul your butt around and elegance means nothing - then why not build for that market too?

 

[Redneck in training]

My arithmetic says 50 kW is about 67 horsepower. I doubt the car uses that much power when cruising down the road. As I recall, about 1/10 of that is required for the typical car.

Medium size car requires about 30-35 HP or 23 - 27 kW to travel at 65 mph on a level road. The actual power necessary is higher due to the road not being always level and the speed also varies. So the 50 kW is somewhat high but still a reasonable estimate. The energy consumption increases linearly with the size of the car (provided the aerodynamic drag coefficient is the same). Also, the energy consumption increases with cube of speed. In other words to double the speed of a vehicle the power necessary (and fuel consumption) increases eight times.
In the example, Bugatti needs about 1200 HP to reach 266 mph. 133 mph would then require 1200/8=150 HP and 65.5 mph would require 19 HP. Needless to say, the Bugatti is a car with small frontal area a low drag coefficient.

 

[Redneck in training]

There is not enough area on the roof of a EV to place enough solar panels to provide any useful charge. Even when not parked in the shade and the sun directly over head.
The "heat" recovered from the motor, inverter and battery pack is low quality due to the low temperatures. Not enough to defrost or defog windows in the winter.

I was not talking about charging batteries but cooling the car. My estimate is, if 5kW keeps my house (24000 cuft) cool, AC for much smaller car (80-100 cuft) probably doesn't require gobs of power. Roof panel could generate about 200 W. Don't know if it is enough to keep the car cool. I just google it. It takes about 0.25 HP on low and about 6 HP on max.

 

[Redneck in training]

I was initially excited about the Bolt,,,,,that is until I saw the price. Even at the taxpayer robbed price. The Volt costs about the same.

Even if I got free electricity, It is no where cost efficient overall.

It is not even half the car that a Tesla is.

I had an electric golf car,,,once. After the 2nd set of batteries went out, I sold it. Have a gas powered gator now. Never looked back.

It all depends on how far you commute. I figured the break-even point for us is about 4 years at gasoline cost 2.80/gal.