Engine oil

[Thomabear]

He didn't say he knows more about auto designs than auto engineers. He said in his last post, and the 2 or 3 previous posts he made, that the vehicle "parts ways" from it's owner for every reason in the book, but not because of the lack of synthetic oil. Be it rust, transmission, accident, or trade in, I think he's 100% correct.
Obsessing over engine crankcase oil seems to be a common irrational behavior oddity for some males, on internet sites. If common sense was truly "common", then one would be more worried about posting of bad weather or, bumps in the road- both are more apt to impact the longevity, and devaluation of your vehicle.

That's exactly my point. From a common sense stand point I guess it's hard to understand folks who believe "if this is more than enough then even more would be better". I never intended to say there was no benefit to synthetic. I'm just saying the benefit isn't necessary to take your engine well past the life of the vehicle. As someone mentioned earlier, if you extend drains or you live in an extremely cold environment then synthetic may be for you. Other than that any benefit you gain (if any) will someday be sitting out in a salvage yard.

 

[Peacock]

That's exactly my point. From a common sense stand point I guess it's hard to understand folks who believe "if this is more than enough then even more would be better". I never intended to say there was no benefit to synthetic. I'm just saying the benefit isn't necessary to take your engine well past the life of the vehicle. As someone mentioned earlier, if you extend drains or you live in an extremely cold environment then synthetic may be for you. Other than that any benefit you gain (if any) will someday be sitting out in a salvage yard.

Out of curiosity, what kind of vehicles do you drive?

 

[aczlan]

That's exactly my point. From a common sense stand point I guess it's hard to understand folks who believe "if this is more than enough then even more would be better". I never intended to say there was no benefit to synthetic. I'm just saying the benefit isn't necessary to take your engine well past the life of the vehicle. As someone mentioned earlier, if you extend drains or you live in an extremely cold environment then synthetic may be for you. Other than that any benefit you gain (if any) will someday be sitting out in a salvage yard.

2 examples. Volvo 5 cylinder turbo "Whiteblock" (used in the 1999-2004 S70, V70, etc) and the VW 1.8L Turbo (used in various cars between 1998 and 2004).
Both cars if maintained to OEM oil change intervals (Volvo was every 7500 miles with Dino oil) WILL build up sludge in the engine by 100k miles. On the Volvo it will block the passages in the head starving the cam of oil. On the VWs there was a class action lawsuit over it which resulted in a settlement.
Switch to Synthetic with the same oil change intervals and no sludge.
My car ('97 Volvo V90, straight 6, non-turbo with hydraulic lifters) was significantly quieter after I switched to Mobil1 Synthetic and there have been issues with the lifters getting "stuck" when using dino oil.

Aaron Z

 

[Thomabear]

Out of curiosity, what kind of vehicles do you drive?

I drive a GMC turbo diesel (LBZ dually)
My better half drives a Z06 Corvette and a GMC Yukon. I tend to stay American.

The truck has about 230k plus hard earned miles towing a 37' Carriage fifth wheel all over the US.
I also had a 2001 Chevy LB7 Duramax that I sold to a close friend. He leases it for hotshot service and the last time I talked to him he said it was bumping on 400k. It's been a great truck and he says it doesn't use a drop of oil. He plans on keeping it to see just how long it will go. It's racking up miles real fast.

 

[Peacock]

2 examples. Volvo 5 cylinder turbo "Whiteblock" (used in the 1999-2004 S70, V70, etc) and the VW 1.8L Turbo (used in various cars between 1998 and 2004). Both cars if maintained to OEM oil change intervals (Volvo was every 7500 miles with Dino oil) WILL build up sludge in the engine by 100k miles. On the Volvo it will block the passages in the head starving the cam of oil. On the VWs there was a class action lawsuit over it which resulted in a settlement. Switch to Synthetic with the same oil change intervals and no sludge. My car ('97 Volvo V90, straight 6, non-turbo with hydraulic lifters) was significantly quieter after I switched to Mobil1 Synthetic and there have been issues with the lifters getting "stuck" when using dino oil. Aaron Z

I could add to that most any ohc Chrysler or Toyota from the '90's-early 2000's.

Those just about all sludge up on Dino, but not synthetic. At nearly any interval.

 

[Thomabear]

2 examples. Volvo 5 cylinder turbo "Whiteblock" (used in the 1999-2004 S70, V70, etc) and the VW 1.8L Turbo (used in various cars between 1998 and 2004).
Both cars if maintained to OEM oil change intervals (Volvo was every 7500 miles with Dino oil) WILL build up sludge in the engine by 100k miles. On the Volvo it will block the passages in the head starving the cam of oil. On the VWs there was a class action lawsuit over it which resulted in a settlement.
Switch to Synthetic with the same oil change intervals and no sludge.
My car ('97 Volvo V90, straight 6, non-turbo with hydraulic lifters) was significantly quieter after I switched to Mobil1 Synthetic and there have been issues with the lifters getting "stuck" when using dino oil.

Aaron Z

If there was a class action lawsuit and VW was held accountable then the problem was vehicle related. Bad designs can and will cause sludge. Keeping vehicle oil at optimum temp is the key to prevention. Any oil will sludge if temps aren't maintained high enough to cook off acid promoting condensation. Short trips are considered severe service due to this. Either way it isn't oil related or the problem would be widespread across other mfg's.In this case of bad design I can see where synthetic may help to bandaid the root cause of the problem. However, synthetic contains more varnish than dino so if it doesn't stay hot enough it will present it's own set of issues. Likely not as bad as sludge but worst considering varnish. That's why I referred to it as a bandaid.

 

[aczlan]

If there was a class action lawsuit and VW was held accountable then the problem was vehicle related. Bad designs can and will cause sludge. Keeping vehicle oil at optimum temp is the key to prevention. Any oil will sludge if temps aren't maintained high enough to cook off acid promoting condensation. Short trips are considered severe service due to this. Either way it isn't oil related or the problem would be widespread across other mfg's.In this case of bad design I can see where synthetic may help to bandaid the root cause of the problem. However, synthetic contains more varnish than dino so if it doesn't stay hot enough it will present it's own set of issues. Likely not as bad as sludge but worst considering varnish. That's why I referred to it as a bandaid.

The problem with VW was that the oil got too hot and dino oil broke down before the recommended change interval (per the stories I read), then VW would claim that the owner hadn't changed their oil often enough and refuse to cover the damages.

Aaron Z

 

[Thomabear]

The problem with VW was that the oil got too hot and dino oil broke down before the recommended change interval (per the stories I read), then VW would claim that the owner hadn't changed their oil often enough and refuse to cover the damages.

Aaron Z

Got ya... So basically it was burning the oil. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[aczlan]

Got ya... So basically it was burning the oil. Thanks for clarifying!

Cooking the oil (coking) rather than burning it in the cylinders, but yes.

Aaron Z

 

[Peacock]

Cooking the oil (coking) rather than burning it in the cylinders, but yes. Aaron Z

Common in turbocharged engines.

 

[Thomabear]

Cooking the oil (coking) rather than burning it in the cylinders, but yes.

Aaron Z

Ya that's what I meant. Given the condition I can definitely say that I would have switched to synthetic. Followed shortly with a for sale sign.

 

[Soundguy]

Nearly all GM vehicles use synthetic now that the Dexos requirement is in place.

i'd go broke putting syn.. even walmart syn in my 2000 yukon / 5.3

 

[Peacock]

i'd go broke putting syn.. even walmart syn in my 2000 yukon / 5.3

I bet you would the way yours drinks oil.

I seem to remember that a good top end cleaner that is left in the cylinders really helps when the rings are carboned up.

 

[Midniteoyl]

2 examples. Volvo 5 cylinder turbo "Whiteblock" (used in the 1999-2004 S70, V70, etc) and the VW 1.8L Turbo (used in various cars between 1998 and 2004).
Both cars if maintained to OEM oil change intervals (Volvo was every 7500 miles with Dino oil) WILL build up sludge in the engine by 100k miles. On the Volvo it will block the passages in the head starving the cam of oil. On the VWs there was a class action lawsuit over it which resulted in a settlement.
Switch to Synthetic with the same oil change intervals and no sludge.
My car ('97 Volvo V90, straight 6, non-turbo with hydraulic lifters) was significantly quieter after I switched to Mobil1 Synthetic and there have been issues with the lifters getting "stuck" when using dino oil.

Aaron Z

Agreed..

The VW settlement was a new engine.. Expensive lesson. Another post here linked to a self described 'engineer turned oil expert' claiming there is no difference between synth and dino as far as wear protection goes. And I agree - for the first 3-5000 miles at least. After that, synth is usually the better oil. Also, 'wear protection' is NOT the only measure of a good oil. The ability to hold dirt and deposits, cold/hot flow ability, high temp shear, etc ALL play a part.

Noted, though, is the the Mobil1 5w-30 was the best off the self street oil in his tests :thumbsup:

 

[kenmac]

I can't remember any engines (in the vehicles that I owned) that ran 200+ degree temps. back in the 60's-70's If they ran 180-190 ? they were considered hot. Oil has to contend with these hotter temps and this is another area where synthetic is the winner. Higher TBN is another area where a quality synthetic beats out some dino oils. The higher the TBN the longer the drain and acid fighting ability your engine has. I'll stick with my synthetics

To make a statement that ''oil is oil' Well, why not just use the the oil from the hamburger joint down the street ?

 

[Peacock]

Agreed with both the last 2 posts.

Today's engines are much more demanding of oil.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I can't remember any engines (in the vehicles that I owned) that ran 200+ degree temps. back in the 60's-70's If they ran 180-190 ? they were considered hot. Oil has to contend with these hotter temps and this is another area where synthetic is the winner. Higher TBN is another area where a quality synthetic beats out some dino oils. The higher the TBN the longer the drain and acid fighting ability your engine has. I'll stick with my synthetics

To make a statement that ''oil is oil' Well, why not just use the the oil from the hamburger joint down the street ?

My BMW has a oil temp gauge, the only vehicle i can remember owning that has one. It runs over 200 deg every day. It's a 3.0L that holds 7 qts of 5W30 synthetic so it's got plenty of oil versus displacement.

Chris

 

[kenmac]

My BMW has a oil temp gauge, the only vehicle i can remember owning that has one. It runs over 200 deg every day. It's a 3.0L that holds 7 qts of 5W30 synthetic so it's got plenty of oil versus displacement.

Chris

And that's my point . Most if not all vehicles now days run 200-200+ deg. Even my 5.9 runs over 200. Heat is a oil killer. My tundra also has a 7 qt capacity . Most average cars and trucks of yester year didn't hold this much oil. I pay good $ for my vehicles. I'm not about to skimp a few $$ on oil or filters

 

[Soundguy]

that's why i like upgrade or add in oil coolers for one thing...

 

[Midniteoyl]

If there was a class action lawsuit and VW was held accountable then the problem was vehicle related. Bad designs can and will cause sludge. Keeping vehicle oil at optimum temp is the key to prevention. Any oil will sludge if temps aren't maintained high enough to cook off acid promoting condensation. Short trips are considered severe service due to this. Either way it isn't oil related or the problem would be widespread across other mfg's.In this case of bad design I can see where synthetic may help to bandaid the root cause of the problem. However, synthetic contains more varnish than dino so if it doesn't stay hot enough it will present it's own set of issues. Likely not as bad as sludge but worst considering varnish. That's why I referred to it as a bandaid.

The problem with VW was that the oil got too hot and dino oil broke down before the recommended change interval (per the stories I read), then VW would claim that the owner hadn't changed their oil often enough and refuse to cover the damages.

Aaron Z

My BMW has a oil temp gauge, the only vehicle i can remember owning that has one. It runs over 200 deg every day. It's a 3.0L that holds 7 qts of 5W30 synthetic so it's got plenty of oil versus displacement.

Chris

My Audi has a 97c thermostat.. thats 206f.. A lot of newer cars have 210-212f now. The hotter the engine, the more efficient it is.