EPA approval??

[bluechip]

Homier has never really explained their EPA program in the 2-1/2 years I have been a dealer for them. I suspect they may be using one of the other exemption programs in TPEM. Aside from the small business exemption you mention and many importers have used, there is percentage of production and economic hardship allowances that could in fact allow quantities that exceed the limits that the small business exemption allows. I wouldn't be surprised if they have "negotiated" some kind of "settlement" with EPA. they could even be paying a fine of so many dollars per engine for all I know.... Last spring I had EPA inspectors stop in, check some paperwork and engine labels. I thought they were looking for "stockpiled" engines (mfg date prior to 1999). The only ones I had like that were from Homier, they said they were familiar with them and just wrote down the Serial numbers. Couple months later they visited another dealer I know who had bought some tractors from an importer in Georgia who uses the "old stock" engine method, these guys visited him and looked at the 1998 engine label and said that was too old to worry about? the tractor was brand new...they just walked away from it. I even saw one importer label his new tractors with current year enginge manufacturing dates stating somthing like: "this tractor confoms to 1998 emissions requirements" Don't know if that one will work very long....(The off road requirements started in 1998!).

 

[n4807g]

Hi Chip. You might be interested in this too Buck. I sent an email to this company http://www.ekjohnson.com/ they are in fact importing Foton's under their name brand (Johnson). I asked whether the engines meet the new EPA standard and they said yes. They are importing the Foton's including the 700 and 800 series. The tractor shown is a 6004, whatever that is. Now I haven't a clue about the engine accept for what they said. But unless these guys are going way out on a limb, it doesn't appear to be a serious issue. At least for them.

Look on Ebay.....

 

[bluechip]

Yes, I am familiar with the Johnson. There have been several posts here on TBN about them. A dealer friend of mine had a Johnson "2204" on his lot, which he said was supposed to be 28HP, but had a Y380 engine in it...made in 1999 to boot.

I am not against the Foton I carry Farm Pro and I have a 40HP that is a very nice tractor on my lot right now. I t hink you got a great machine, if EPA lets Homier and some of these others to continue, than there will be a big enough market to encourage parts inventories state side. ONe thing for sure HOmier has enough shipements form China every month that they could get a part they don't have here pretty quickly if needed. You bought from the right importer.

Fotons are also being sold in Rural King stores in some parts of the country. Meyers equipment in Iowa is trying to get established as a foton importer also. The Perkins factory has contacted Foton and has offered to sell them real EPA perkins engines. The neat thing is it should be a bolt in replacement for the Phaser.of course that will likely kill the price advantage. I think Foton has the ability to do well here if they operate within the same rules everyone else does.

I am told that KAMA looked at a "mainstream" EPA engines a few years ago and figured it would double the price of their tractors....I'm afraid the market for a chinese tractor gets pretty small if it is within 10-20% of a Korean or Japanese tractor...

 

[n4807g]

Interesting about the engine...so the one offered isn't from PETL? Like I said I can't vouch for info, I can only pass it along as I get it. The response from Johnson to my question about the EPA cert. was "yes", the engines in the tractors they sell meet the 2006 requirement. Within 5 years you will see main stream names buying Chinese tractors. As for price, the government manages industry's in China by subsidizing those it wants to grow, they do have a plan. I'm not positive, but by the increase in quality and the continuing availability of the tractors, I'm assuming the Foton Heavy Industy's plant is subsidized for export. They don't really care about profit, they want the hard currency transaction; $"s. There was an interesting bit of news about China recently. Apparently their reserve of US $'s dropped dramatically this year. It is speculated that their purchase of oil (in $'s) is driving the need to rebuild their reserve.....great motivating factor to export.

 

[circleTfarm]

Chip I talked to Meyers Equipment about 6 months ago, they were looking to expand the fonton brand.

Meyers was looking for people to become dealers, it was explained to me that meyers imports for you,, we were told you had to purchase 5 units to get started,, we asked about the 824 fontons,, meyers sell to dealers for $18,995 and you sell for$ 22,995.

we figured that meyers were making too good of profit for doing just paperwork.

now you find fonton(johnson,farm pro eagle) on Ebay for what Meyers wanted to sell units to their dealers..

when we checked into this nothing was ever said about EPA restrictions, it makes us wonder now that we are reading about the EPA if there is going to be much of a chinese market..

 

[bluechip]

Importers do make a profit for doing paperwork, they also take the liability for customs and epa issues and such. I do business both ways, importing KAMA diret and buying Jinma/foton through Farm Pro. there are advantages to each. I think the Chinese market will continue to be good here in states, more legal engines are becoming available, currently just 25 and 35hp but later there will surely be more.

Of course the profit is limited by the competition, and the middle man cant keep too much of the pie or his customers can just go to china and become their own importer, also I feel it is important that a dealer can make a good profit and still be at least 20% or more below the established brands.

It is painfully true that many importers don't have a clue what they are doing when it comes to EPA. I think I posted elswhere that one importer was having labels stating that his tractors met 1998 requirements....in 2005! Might as well put a stick saying "this tractor does not comply with any epa regulations"!

We actually plan to expand the KAMA dealer network in 2006, now that we are not limited in quantity we can import by TPEM restrictions, we can support more dealers with our wholesale program. Of course we are only going to import certified engines, that means 25 and 35HP only for now...

 

[gunslinger101]

For what its worth, my uncle deals with the boy's in DC all the time and since I bought a dealer out I wanted to make sure I would not get busted with non EPA tractors.
He did some checking and how Homier and others are getting around some of the EPA issues is thru the DOT.
How this works from what he was told is this. They will let them bring in the tractors (EPA)as long as they volunteer the information on the new early warning recall system for DOT.
So if someone gets hurt or killed on a tractor sold by them they volunteer to report that to the DOT, (if the selling dealer knows about a injury or death) This is to implement the early warning system with the government, in other words recall system. Just like they did with trailers and other vehicles for off road use like quads.
The can of worms will be, later down the road , if accidents happen so many times then recall will be in effect and the problem or cause will have to be fixed by the dealer. Sort or like when they made ROPs a law or recall on tires and such.
They are trying to get this going by 2008.
So if X number of complaints come in about steering we will say on a Jinma, after so many the government will demand a recall by the importer and the problem will have to be corrected. This also includes defects seen and reported by the importer, like brake peddles to close together(just a for instance) and classed dangerous, just about anything they spot and desire to report as a dangerous defect in manufacture or design.
The guy's that volunteer info now will hang you later and themselves with recall issues.

have a good day

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( also I feel it is important that a dealer can make a good profit and still be at least 20% or more below the established brands. )</font>

What gets me is how can nortrac sell the 40 hp machine for 11999, and compete with the JD 5103 (?) a 50 hp machine.. for 12999. ?????

math don't add up there at all...

Soundguy

 

[bluechip]

Well....2wd vs 4wd for one, LIst on the JD shows to be over $15K by the way... The 40HP NOrtrac didn't show up on thier web site. I have a brand new FARTMTRAC 45 2wd, also made in India, that I have quoted in the very very low teens, but the 4wd and loader make the package on the Farm Pro or KAMA much less expensive bottom line and has outsold it every time.

IN any case, the 5103 (or maybe my Farmtrac 45 /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) may be just the ticket....for you.

 

[circleTfarm]

Chip

So if what your saying is correct,(and I don't doubt that it is) as lons as you can get someone to import these units that don't comply it's the importer that will get busted, not the dealer selling as long as the dealer is not the importer?