Essential Workers?

[check]

It takes a special person to help people on that level. Keep an eye on her over the coming years. Some people are very good at dealing with it, but some, like my grandma I'm told, brought it home. I know things were different 'back then', but everything is different from yesterday, no matter what generation.

We have a good family friend who's daughter is an ER nurse. I was talking to her at her wedding a few months ago. She said it may sound horrible, but by being in the ER, you don't get time to get attached to your patients. While it's hard to lose one, you don't have that personal connection that long term care nurses get with their patients. She was quite honest about it. Didn't think she could do that at this point in her life. Maybe when she gets older.

Michelle was actually offered a job in ER at the same hospital, but she turned it down. She said she would not like to see people dying. And apparently that happens a lot in ER.

 

[ultrarunner]

It depends... but yes, ER and Trauma centers have their share of last chance patients.

If she likes surgery there are other options such as Surgery Centers that do a multitude of outpatient procedures.... Ortho, plastics, podiatry, eyes, etc

 

[check]

It depends... but yes, ER and Trauma centers have their share of last chance patients.

If she likes surgery there are other options such as Surgery Centers that do a multitude of outpatient procedures.... Ortho, plastics, podiatry, eyes, etc

I personally would find surgery fascinating, but apparently they keep the OR quite cold, and make the nurses wear short sleeves. That’s all good for a kid that is lean and mean with not a speck of fat to keep her warm.

 

[ultrarunner]

OR typically 66-68 in reality... Surgeons demand it and often have several layers on and sometimes lead aprons

I think some would like 60 and we have cool vests if the doc simply to hot... no one wants to work with a surgeon not comfortable.

Can't imagine exposed skin on surgical staff... between scrubs, long sleeve scrub jacket, surgical gowns, hat, face shield, etc... well covered.

Some nurses and techs wear a thin thermal under it all as cases can be 10 minutes or 10 hours...

 

[two_bit_score]

One reason to object is favoritism by some of those who evaluate teachers.

Bruce

Couldn’t that be said about any job where employees were evaluated on performance? Isn’t the key to success having measurable performance criteria and a meritorious ’grading’ system?

Could the kids have the same concerns about some teachers?

Or could “favoritism by some of those who evaluate teachers” just be a wedge issue to keep the union in power so the only ones who benefit is the union management?

 

[bcp]

Isn’t the key to success having measurable performance criteria and a meritorious ’grading’ system?

Yes, if you had standard materials to work with, but students aren't standardized or equal from class to class and year to year.

And testing: a standardized math test at the end of 8th grade, for example, is measuring the work of nine math teachers*, not just the 8th grade math teacher.

Even more teachers, for those students who move mid-year several times.

Bruce

 

[two_bit_score]

Yes, if you had standard materials to work with, but students aren't standardized or equal from class to class and year to year.

And testing: a standardized math test at the end of 8th grade, for example, is measuring the work of nine math teachers*, not just the 8th grade math teacher.

Even more teachers, for those students who move mid-year several times.

Bruce

Every job that exists has performance challenges as you describe but the companies paying employees to perform those jobs still must evaluate those employees performance. Teachers should be no different. The fact that they are is why we have a substandard public education system in place too often.

To mention an example: Teachers in NYC public schools are often paid and ordered to stay home or otherwise kept out of the classrooms because of substandard performance and occasionally being outright threats to the health and welfare of students. These teachers, and some times administrators, suck resources out of the system for years, sometimes until they ultimately retire.

We have to wake up and shake off the foolishness that teachers cannot be evaluated on performance. To continue to do so is a disservice to our entire country.

We would not continue to buy tractors built by incompetent workers and we should not accept substandard performance from those paid by public funds to improperly educate our children.

 

[Hay Dude]

My wife is a teacher and gets an annual evaluation.
We both think merit based pay would turn the education system around overnight for the better.

 

[PuffyC]

The problem with evaluating teachers based on student performance is how you measure that performance. We’ve done countless social experiments where we sent kids from underperforming schools with ‘bad’ teachers to schools that excel because of ‘good’ teachers and vice versa, and oddly enough the performance follows the kids, not then school or teacher. It’s one of those inconvenient truths we can’t acknowledge because of the social implications but pretty much any experienced educator will tell you the same behind closed doors.

We absolutely should be evaluating teachers based on performance, I’m just not sure anyone has found a way to accurately do it.

 

[Jstpssng]

Another question is how to evaluate the students? SATs are a joke, unless they've changed immensely since I took them 45 years ago.

 

[KennyG]

SATs and other standardized tests aren't perfect but they are about all we have. Having predictable standardized tests push teachers to "teach to the test" which isn't ideal, but not having tests at all hide the underperforming schools and teachers. Home environment is probably as important to student success as teacher performance, but I think moving students from poor schools to good schools must have some influence just from the better learning atmosphere.

 

[bcp]

It is hard to "teach to the test" when a teacher has no idea what is on it.

One year, the math test had about 10-15% probability questions. The math book being used had no probability instruction. That was done in a higher grade. Students scored poorly. Supplemental materials were purchased and used. The next year's test had no probability questions.

Bruce

 

[Jstpssng]

As stated before my experience is dated so things may have improved. I've always been good at multiple choice tests - with just 1 right answer- and my SATs put me at the 97th percentile. I just wish I was smart enough to actually live up to those numbers.

 

[check]

As stated before my experience is dated so things may have improved. I've always been good at multiple choice tests - with just 1 right answer- and my SATs put me at the 97th percentile. I just wish I was smart enough to actually live up to those numbers.

Do what I did. I cheated on the IQ test!

 

[ultrarunner]

Read some Universities are doing away with SAT as it is exclusionary...

 

[Hay Dude]

Read some Universities are doing away with SAT as it is exclusionary...

Yeah! It actually leads to excluding less educated people from attending college.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Read some Universities are doing away with SAT as it is exclusionary...

So is life...

 

[plowhog]

Having predictable standardized tests push teachers to "teach to the test" which isn't ideal,

I have never understood why "teaching to the test" is a problem. If the test questions are relevant to ensuring the student or applicant has the prescribed knowledge, isn't it logical to "teach to the test?"

I've done much flight training. Progressing through almost every common rating. Every regimen I went through "taught to the test." On purpose. If you failed the test, you didn't get that particular flight certificate.

If the process is good for flight training, which involves some elevated level of hazard and risk, why isn't it appropriate for general purpose use?

 

[PuffyC]

Another question is how to evaluate the students? SATs are a joke, unless they've changed immensely since I took them 45 years ago.

Evaluating students is easy, it’s called grades. The problem there though is nobody ever really fails k-12 because we just pass everyone along whether they learn anything or not. College is getting that way now too. Even with that, today the push is to eliminate grading entirely because too many in some groups still manage to screw it up. They want to go to a simple pass/fail instead. I suppose if we keep going that way we’ll eventually get to where kids all get A‘s just for showing up at least half the time.

 

[Jstpssng]

Evaluating students is easy, it’s called grades. The problem there though is nobody ever really fails k-12 because we just pass everyone along whether they learn anything or not. College is getting that way now too. Even with that, today the push is to eliminate grading entirely because too many in some groups still manage to screw it up. They want to go to a simple pass/fail instead. I suppose if we keep going that way we’ll eventually get to where kids all get A‘s just for showing up at least half the time.

That makes a lot of sense. I can safely say that my grades didn't align with my PSAT/SAT scores when I was in school.