Excavating/grading question

[s219]

That sounds like fun to me. I'd come help if you paid for airfare, hotel, meals and an occasional cocktail.....

I'd come just for the cocktails. I need at least 2-3 six packs before I can get started though, just to get in the zone All kidding aside, I did some grading for a neighbor today with my L3200 & box blade, and had a good time. He's going to pay me in beer and diesel.

 

[Jpcjguy]

I'd come just for the cocktails. I need at least 2-3 six packs before I can get started though, just to get in the zone All kidding aside, I did some grading for a neighbor today with my L3200 & box blade, and had a good time. He's going to pay me in beer and diesel.

Drinks and operating heavy equipment - pretty easy sell for almost anyone if you ask me!

 

[Jpcjguy]

Here is one quote I received:

"Company hereby proposes to furnish all Supervision, Labor, Equipment and Materials for the Installation of a 350’x 12’ driveway with 21a Stone (160 tons).Installation of a 12” Culvert. The excavation of an 80’x50’ area to lessen slope for installation of a retaining wall. Spoils from excavation will be placed @ 2’ depth in swell at front of lot to level area out. Some Topsoil will be respread between trees in front yard at a 2” depth to cover root mats."

Cost: $11,678.40

So as for my 350' driveway - I am not an expert but should it be two layers of larger base stone and smaller top? or all one size?
Here is the definition of 21A stone from the local supplier (Luck Stone):
"Virginia: 21A, 21B, CTA, 24, 25, 26

Commonly used as sub-base and base for highways, roads, driveways, and parking lots. Also suitable as backfill, road shoulder material, and under concrete curb and gutter. Varying in size from a fine powder to about an inch, these grades get best results when compacted in place.
Max Size:
Minus 1 - 1/2" to Fine Powder
Applications: Base and Crusher Run"

 

[Citydude]

Here is one quote I received: "Company hereby proposes to furnish all Supervision, Labor, Equipment and Materials for the Installation of a 350’x 12’ driveway with 21a Stone (160 tons).Installation of a 12” Culvert. The excavation of an 80’x50’ area to lessen slope for installation of a retaining wall. Spoils from excavation will be placed @ 2’ depth in swell at front of lot to level area out. Some Topsoil will be respread between trees in front yard at a 2” depth to cover root mats." Cost: $11,678.40 So as for my 350' driveway - I am not an expert but should it be two layers of larger base stone and smaller top? or all one size? Here is the definition of 21A stone from the local supplier (Luck Stone): "Virginia: 21A, 21B, CTA, 24, 25, 26 Commonly used as sub-base and base for highways, roads, driveways, and parking lots. Also suitable as backfill, road shoulder material, and under concrete curb and gutter. Varying in size from a fine powder to about an inch, these grades get best results when compacted in place. Max Size: Minus 1 - 1/2" to Fine Powder Applications: Base and Crusher Run"

That sounds pretty good to me.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Sounds reasonable to me also

 

[deecoopsau]

Old thread, how'd it work out?

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

15 hrs makes it an old thread? Just a wild guess but I kinda doubt in the 18 hrs from when the OP posted that estimate that it hasn't been done yet.

 

[Jpcjguy]

Got the second estimate. Nice older guy - handwritten estimate. Here is what was written:
Cut in driveway 350'x12' (from street to current shed location)
Harley rake designated area and grade
tamp driveway as needed
haul in and spread approx 45 tons of crush and run (base)
tamp in as needed
haul in and spread #57 stone (top dressing)
Homeowner will remove trees and install culvert

$6000 - This is just for the driveway - no excavation for a retaining wall. He would use the harley rake to smooth out the back yard (fingers of septic field). So it is not an apples to apples comparison directly.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

160 tons of stone in the first and only 45 plus topdressing in the second is a huge difference. 45 tons isn't anywhere near enough. Even with the 160 ton, that will only give you about an average 8" depth. The 45 ton will hardly be enough as a top coat as it will only net about 2" average depth.

8" depth for a driveway seems skimpy to me but your native soil type could have a bearing on that. Something else to consider is laying geotextile fabric under the stone to keep it from mixing with the subsoil

 

[Jpcjguy]

160 tons of stone in the first and only 45 plus topdressing in the second is a huge difference. 45 tons isn't anywhere near enough. Even with the 160 ton, that will only give you about an average 8" depth. The 45 ton will hardly be enough as a top coat as it will only net about 2" average depth.

8" depth for a driveway seems skimpy to me but your native soil type could have a bearing on that. Something else to consider is laying geotextile fabric under the stone to keep it from mixing with the subsoil

Thanks for that info! This is where I have absolutely no experience. I am outside Richmond VA. I don't want to over engineer the driveway but also don't want to have to do it again in a couple years. As for soil this is what I found:

Here is a pic from websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov website:

Definition of area 27C2:

27C2—Pacolet fine sandy loam, 7 to 15 percent slopes, eroded

Map Unit Setting

National map unit symbol: 3zv6
Elevation: 200 to 1,400 feet
Mean annual precipitation: 35 to 48 inches
Mean annual air temperature: 76 to 100 degrees F
Frost-free period: 153 to 205 days
Farmland classification: Farmland of statewide importance
Map Unit Composition

Pacolet and similar soils: 80 percent
Estimates are based on observations, descriptions, and transects of the mapunit.
Description of Pacolet

Setting

Landform: Hillslopes
Landform position (two-dimensional): Shoulder
Landform position (three-dimensional): Interfluve
Down-slope shape: Convex
Across-slope shape: Convex
Parent material: Residuum weathered from granite and gneiss
Typical profile

H1 - 0 to 4 inches: fine sandy loam
H2 - 4 to 27 inches: clay
H3 - 27 to 42 inches: clay loam
H4 - 42 to 62 inches: loam
Properties and qualities

Slope: 7 to 15 percent
Depth to restrictive feature: More than 80 inches
Natural drainage class: Well drained
Runoff class: Low
Capacity of the most limiting layer to transmit water (Ksat): Moderately high to high (0.57 to 1.98 in/hr)
Depth to water table: More than 80 inches
Frequency of flooding: None
Frequency of ponding: None
Available water storage in profile: Moderate (about 7.6 inches)
Interpretive groups

Land capability classification (irrigated): None specified
Land capability classification (nonirrigated): 3e
Hydrologic Soil Group: B

Definition of area 3B:
3B—Bolling soils, 2 to 7 percent slopes

Map Unit Setting

National map unit symbol: 3zw0
Mean annual precipitation: 35 to 48 inches
Mean annual air temperature: 76 to 100 degrees F
Frost-free period: 153 to 205 days
Farmland classification: All areas are prime farmland
Map Unit Composition

Bolling and similar soils: 90 percent
Estimates are based on observations, descriptions, and transects of the mapunit.
Description of Bolling

Setting

Landform: Stream terraces
Landform position (three-dimensional): Tread
Down-slope shape: Linear
Across-slope shape: Linear
Parent material: Alluvium
Typical profile

H1 - 0 to 11 inches: silt loam
H2 - 11 to 35 inches: clay loam
H3 - 35 to 63 inches: silty clay loam
Properties and qualities

Slope: 2 to 7 percent
Depth to restrictive feature: More than 80 inches
Natural drainage class: Moderately well drained
Runoff class: Low
Capacity of the most limiting layer to transmit water (Ksat): Moderately high to high (0.57 to 1.98 in/hr)
Depth to water table: About 24 to 36 inches
Frequency of flooding: Occasional
Frequency of ponding: None
Available water storage in profile: High (about 9.2 inches)
Interpretive groups

Land capability classification (irrigated): None specified
Land capability classification (nonirrigated): 2w
Hydrologic Soil Group: C

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

I'm not a soil engineer by any means so I have no idea what all that means but I'm sure it would help if you knew what it all meant. Lol

What I do know is that for a lane, the more base the better and its really hard to fix a lane that was under-built to start with. With the equipment already on site, it shouldn't be that much more in time to add more base. Going rate around here is about $13/ton (last fall price) and for easy math, 1.5 ton is a cubic yard of crushed rock, regardless of size.

 

[Jpcjguy]

I'm not a soil engineer by any means so I have no idea what all that means but I'm sure it would help if you knew what it all meant. Lol

What I do know is that for a lane, the more base the better and its really hard to fix a lane that was under-built to start with. With the equipment already on site, it shouldn't be that much more in time to add more base. Going rate around here is about $13/ton (last fall price) and for easy math, 1.5 ton is a cubic yard of crushed rock, regardless of size.

hahaha! I am with you - but there are some very technical people on here and it could be the information they are looking for.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

hahaha! I am with you - but there are some very technical people on here and it could be the information they are looking for.

I agree, I just didn't want you to think I was one of them ;-)

 

[Jpcjguy]

So I have been thinking more about the 50-80' tiered retaining wall and the associated $$$ with that... How about I make most of the wall a hill down from the upper horseshoe pit area to the "level" area. Have the grade be "smooth" enough that I can mow it. Like the following:

Below is a rough drawing of the hill idea. The green is existing railroad tie wall. This can be seen in the other pics in the thread. This would be replaced with stone. The yellow is the new proposed wall angled out into the hill. The red is where the "grassy hill" would start. This way I say money on stone and still have easy mowing.

I wonder what grade I can get away with using my Bobcat ZT mower and how long the "base" of the triangle would be. Here is the slope in yellow that I am thinking:

Thoughts?

 

[paulharvey]

3:1 is pretty unfriendly feeling, but if your careful you can do it, 4:1 (four feet horizontal to 1 foot vertical) still feels steep but you can easily mow or drive on it. It feels steeper than it is. I don't think a dozer will "stick" to a 2:1 cross slope but can go up and down, if that helps give a reference point.

Steeper than 2:1 and you'll be pegging sod, and mowing with a weed eater

 

[japody]

If you move all that dirt around, next year's Mud Bog will be held at your place!

 

[Jpcjguy]

If you move all that dirt around, next year's Mud Bog will be held at your place!

hahaha! yeah - wife will not be too happy for a while. As for mud bogging - that is a younger man's game - I don't have time to spend a day with the power washer anymore. Rock crawling for me..

 

[Xfaxman]

3:1 is pretty unfriendly feeling, but if your careful you can do it, 4:1 (four feet horizontal to 1 foot vertical) still feels steep but you can easily mow or drive on it. It feels steeper than it is. I don't think a dozer will "stick" to a 2:1 cross slope but can go up and down, if that helps give a reference point.

Steeper than 2:1 and you'll be pegging sod, and mowing with a weed eater

I agree, 3:1 was a major pucker factor the first time I mowed it.

The hanging tow rope shows true vertical.

This side is 2:1 and the mower slides sideways downhill a lot.

 

[Jpcjguy]

Whoa! Yeah - not liking the 2:1 :shocked:
In reality my total height differential is about 4.5-5 feet. My thought was to not side hill mow but up and down.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Down should be super easy with the 2:1 lol. Up should be fine also, far more likely to spin out than go over backwards.