F150 Powerstroke announced.

[Paystar]

Just had a thought. maybe the new rumor on the Mack forum is true? Maybe Volvo is going to discontinue the Mack Titan, the Mack MP10 engine and the Volvo D16.......they need the money to finish paying for Paccar, hahahahahaha.

 

[Paystar]

DP- can you please explain what I highlighted? Volvo purchase of Pacar (Paccar)? Paccar is using in house MAN engines I do believe. And what FIAT or FPT (Fiat Power Technology) engine would take the place of the 6.7 Cummins?

FPT has a 6.7 engine, widely used in their agricultural and construction equipment (such as in New Holland and Case IH) and it is a very close match to the design of the 6.7 Cummins.

 

[ovrszd]

FPT has a 6.7 engine, widely used in their agricultural and construction equipment (such as in New Holland and Case IH) and it is a very close match to the design of the 6.7 Cummins.

Just had a similar conversation with the guy that rebuilds injector pumps. The waters are getting very muddy indeed.

 

[Paystar]

And it's only going to get worse, LOL.

 

[Red Horse]

FPT has a 6.7 engine, widely used in their agricultural and construction equipment (such as in New Holland and Case IH) and it is a very close match to the design of the 6.7 Cummins.

And I mis-spoke in my note to DP- Paccar uses a DAF engine-not MAN. So right now, you have vertical integration as far as engines go with Paccar, (DAF), F'liner (Detroit/Mercedes) Navistar (MAN) and the VW buy in could expand that with Scania?? And of course Volvo/Mack

Cummins has to be looking over their shoulder. I think its time for them to be knocking on Ford's door as the 750 IMO is a dead duck with just the 6.7 Power Stroke as a diesel choice. Ford is killing class 6 but I think when you start looking at 33,000 GVW-and you can get a 750 with a 37,000 lb rating- I think they need a 6 cyl. Wonder why they don't bring their 9 L over from Ford Turkey. Built by them in Turkey

 

[Red Horse]

Just had a thought. maybe the new rumor on the Mack forum is true? Maybe Volvo is going to discontinue the Mack Titan, the Mack MP10 engine and the Volvo D16.......they need the money to finish paying for Paccar, hahahahahaha.

Rumor?- I thought it was a fact. Titan is dead as is the MP-10.

 

[Paystar]

I haven't got any announcement from Mack yet? I was told the MP10/D16 will be certified for EPA17 soon.....so unless something has suddenly changed?

Speaking of Ford medium duties.....more hurt is about to come to them because the new Navistar International/GMC joint venture medium duty conventional will be getting released soon.

 

[Red Horse]

I haven't got any announcement from Mack yet? I was told the MP10/D16 will be certified for EPA17 soon.....so unless something has suddenly changed?

Speaking of Ford medium duties.....more hurt is about to come to them because the new Navistar International/GMC joint venture medium duty conventional will be getting released soon.

I think the GM/Navistar product is class 4 and 5 only-or do you know otherwise? In anycase, Mopar/ Ram/FCA whatever- has been market leader in class 3-4-5. And I'm led to believe they do that on price. But with the Chevy dealers getting the Isuzu badged class 4,5's and the GM/Navistar trucks coming to market, it is going to be a nasty business-or to look at it another way-good for the consumer.

 

[Diamondpilot]

DP- can you please explain what I highlighted? Volvo purchase of Pacar (Paccar)? Paccar is using in house MAN engines I do believe. And what FIAT or FPT (Fiat Power Technology) engine would take the place of the 6.7 Cummins?

I was told by one about a month ago they were worried about their job because now is the time they should be negotiating with Ram on the next series of motors for the trucks. They said that Ram wasn't in a hurry to talk and acted like they no longer needed Cummins.

As for the Volvo Paccar relationship he said a few weeks back that Volvo was going after about 30% stake in Paccar which also had him nervous.

He stated if it were not for sales overseas Cummins would be in serious trouble.

Who knows, perhaps it's all rumor?

 

[roadhunter]

Ram dropped the Cummins in the 1/2 ton for the same reason they will soon drop it for a fiat engine in the HD trucks.

I live 25 miles from the Cummins Head Quarters. I have 2 neighbors who work there, one of which is the #3 man. They are all worried about the relationship with Ram. The are loosing tons of sales with Volvos purchase of Pacar shares and they fear the same with Fiat and Ram.

Think about it. Ram has no need for Cummins in say 3 years. They have proven the in-house Eco Diesel and can do the same in the HD line just like Ford breaking.off from IH

I think Dodge may find that there are a lot of folks why buy Dodge 2500 and 3500 diesel pickup because there is a Cummins under the hood, not necessarily because it's a dodge. Instantly all the Dodge Cummins loyalist will feel betrayed by Dodge with foreign diesels. That would be a PR disaster IMO. Likely good for Nissan, Ford, and GM.

 

[Paystar]

Well I haven't heard anything about Volvo/Paccar on my end. But stranger things have happened, LOL.

It's almost like politics with manufacturers these days......they say one thing and do something else.

You sure it wasn't the VW/Navistar partnership he was telling you about Diamond? Because International had dropped Cummins years ago when they did the venture with Caterpillar. Now that that is over they went back to Cummins. But now they have three big engine builders in their stable for future development (VW, MAN and Scania) and I know Cummins was worried about that, because they don't have a solid future commitment from International.
International has come out and said point blank....for the moment we will continue to offer Cummins and they have been a great partner, but we have big plans for more vertical integration from our new VW partners.

 

[Red Horse]

I was told by one about a month ago they were worried about their job because now is the time they should be negotiating with Ram on the next series of motors for the trucks. They said that Ram wasn't in a hurry to talk and acted like they no longer needed Cummins.

As for the Volvo Paccar relationship he said a few weeks back that Volvo was going after about 30% stake in Paccar which also had him nervous.

He stated if it were not for sales overseas Cummins would be in serious trouble.

Who knows, perhaps it's all rumor?

Ok-thx for response. I would find it highly unlikely that Volvo would have the means to go after 30% of Paccar. Like you, we only go by what we "hear" or read but one fact is certain, through 9 mos YTD, Paccar has 28.5% of the class 8 market plus 16.9% of class 7. Volvo has 18.9% of class 8 (including Mack) and NO stake in class 7. Plus some think they are contemplating selling their construction equipment line to keep the truck operation going. Who knows.

I myself have a bigger concern that at some point, someone in Sweden will say...."Mack?-who needs it- duplicated costs, common engines blah blah-the old synergism story. Mack was always the vocational heavy truck leader-in particular when it was a truly integrated truck line with its own engines, transmissions and rear ends. That unfortunately is true to a lesser degree today.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I don't see that. Ford has built it's own successful diesel with out loosing market share.

GM basically has a in-house diesel with its Isuzu built Dura Max.

If the Fiat diesel exceeds the performance of the Cummins it replaces that will be good enough for 9 out of 10 new truck buyers.

10 years ago people bought the Cummins and put up with the Dodge. Now days Ram is on par mechanically, fit and finish, and anti rust with its competitors.

 

[roadhunter]

I don't see that. Ford has built it's own successful diesel with out loosing market share.

GM basically has a in-house diesel with its Isuzu built Dura Max.

If the Fiat diesel exceeds the performance of the Cummins it replaces that will be good enough for 9 out of 10 new truck buyers.

10 years ago people bought the Cummins and put up with the Dodge. Now days Ram is on par mechanically, fit and finish, and anti rust with its competitors.

I see your point but this is a much different situation. Cummins has a pretty big following and this could certainly make them feel betrayed and not want to buy a new truck with a foreign diesel. Cummins is more popular than any of the engines that other brand pickups have dropped and the relationship is much longer than those were.

Had GM used Cat diesels for 30+ years and then dropped Cat to make the Dura Max it might be comparable. But dropping the 6.2 and 6.5 turds to make thier own was really in everyone's best interest and made sense. This is more about corporate politics.

 

[ClaySlayer]

Yeah, but when Ford built their own diesel it wasn't like they already had a reliable option...the 6.4 was the second ticking time bomb in a row and they had to do something. Would love to see a baby PS closer to 4.0 with 300/500 but I think this 3.0 project is being done for MPGs not max towing capability. Having said that I'll stick with my 3.5 EB for a while and see how things pan out. It tows like a diesel anyway...

 

[roadhunter]

Man you guys are power hungry. I'd be happy with a 200 hp midsize or compact diesel pickup that got a legit 30+ MPG. Third world countries seem to have them everywhere but not here.

 

[Red Horse]

Man you guys are power hungry. I'd be happy with a 200 hp midsize or compact diesel pickup that got a legit 30+ MPG. Third world countries seem to have them everywhere but not here.

Like in Brazil- Ford builds an old school Super Duty 350-I think they refer to it as a 4000-with a four cyl. Cummins!

 

[TheGoose]

I think you're wrong DP. As a 3.0L EcoDiesel Owner I'm thrilled that I can have a daily driver truck that exceeds 20 mpg and I think the truck has PLENTY of power. The "original" 7.3L Powerstroke engine from the 90's ONLY had 210 HP and 425 ft lbs of torque. We had a 96 and boy we thought it was powerful. We used it on an F-350 service truck that weighed in excess of 13,000 lbs. I have about the same horsepower/TQ in my ~6,000 lb daily driver, it feels strong and powerful, just as much as my 3.5L ecoboost, and it gets the mileage that it says it will get.

Titan offers the Cummins 5.0 because they do not have a 3/4 ton truck to offer. It does not get very good mileage, about the same as any 250/2500 diesel offered by the Big 3 but with much less capability.

I think that Ford and Ram have both missed the mark. To me the diesel offerings need to meet or exceed the best gas offering.

Nissan has it right with the 5.0 Cummins.

 

[KennyG]

Noticed in the article the 2018 F150 will have a 10 speed transmission.Where will it end 12 speed tannys,15 speeds?

It will end at infinity. Finally a heavy duty CVT.

 

[Egon]

Man you guys are power hungry. I'd be happy with a 200 hp midsize or compact diesel pickup that got a legit 30+ MPG. Third world countries seem to have them everywhere but not here.

Boy oh Boys, and I have to get by with a mere 180 HP and four speeds from twenty one years ago!