OP
Finally, a barn built with our new connectors
- Thread starter wroughtn_harv
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Bob_Skurka
Super Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2003
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- 7,615
Harv, the genius of your system lies in its simplicity.
Just one question, given that you are using steel vertical posts and there are different wall thicknesses for steel tube, will you specify a specific wall thickness to be used for the buildings? It strikes me that wind loads could crumple the structure if someone tried to cut corners and use tubing that was thin. It also strikes me that you could just about make a building hurricane proof if thick tubing was used.
Just one question, given that you are using steel vertical posts and there are different wall thicknesses for steel tube, will you specify a specific wall thickness to be used for the buildings? It strikes me that wind loads could crumple the structure if someone tried to cut corners and use tubing that was thin. It also strikes me that you could just about make a building hurricane proof if thick tubing was used.
OP
wroughtn_harv
Super Member
Good observation Bob.
In a discussion yesterday we talked about that very thing. They expressed concern about the strength of the screws and I explained that the screws weren't my concern. It was someone going down to HD or Lowes and buying some of the their fence posts instead of using pipe.
We will have a disclaimer explaining the difference between the different gauges or wall thicknesses of pipe or pipe appearing material.
What I like best about the system is it enables the builder to explore options not offered by other methods. It offers the flexibility of wood construction but with the strength and corrosion resistance of steel.
In a discussion yesterday we talked about that very thing. They expressed concern about the strength of the screws and I explained that the screws weren't my concern. It was someone going down to HD or Lowes and buying some of the their fence posts instead of using pipe.
We will have a disclaimer explaining the difference between the different gauges or wall thicknesses of pipe or pipe appearing material.
What I like best about the system is it enables the builder to explore options not offered by other methods. It offers the flexibility of wood construction but with the strength and corrosion resistance of steel.
RedRocker
Veteran Member
Harv, seems like you could adapt your clip bending fixture to fit in your brake, save a lot of time cranking handles. Otherwise, I've got a Bentec 1000 B horizontal bender that would make short work of stuff like that, be glad to help out.
SPIKER
Elite Member
Harv:
not a bad idea, I looked at all the photos but being 100's moiles away I can only sumrize a feww things but wanted to point out what I noticed and suggest what I would change based only on observation of the above photos.. I noticed the screws like others and like them the screws are ok idea but are not very strong, I would step up to a 1/4x20 hardened screw and make at least 3 holes for any purlins. (I say 1/4 20 not the slightly cheaper 1/4x14 as any long term setteling and wind loads could cause racking of the structure and the 14's don't hold up as well as the finer thread at resisting any tension loads which could result. hardened for shear strenght. many of these screws are only tip hardened so watch suppliers and spec them for sure.
the angle brackets on the roof used 2 screws on each side, adine I would up this number to 4 per side and add a angle bracket on the top and mottom edge to resist the twisting forces which would put a tension load onto the closed screw at the point whee it begins to pull appart. what wuld be even better but slower would be through bolting on these holding 2 brackets one on each side of beam for the roof purlin/structure to attach to.
I didn't notice much X bracing anywhere, was the photos missing of these or does the system seem strong enough to be without? this would be a cheap and easy item to add as added wind loads or snow loads become an issue
anyhow just a few items...
MarkM
not a bad idea, I looked at all the photos but being 100's moiles away I can only sumrize a feww things but wanted to point out what I noticed and suggest what I would change based only on observation of the above photos.. I noticed the screws like others and like them the screws are ok idea but are not very strong, I would step up to a 1/4x20 hardened screw and make at least 3 holes for any purlins. (I say 1/4 20 not the slightly cheaper 1/4x14 as any long term setteling and wind loads could cause racking of the structure and the 14's don't hold up as well as the finer thread at resisting any tension loads which could result. hardened for shear strenght. many of these screws are only tip hardened so watch suppliers and spec them for sure.
the angle brackets on the roof used 2 screws on each side, adine I would up this number to 4 per side and add a angle bracket on the top and mottom edge to resist the twisting forces which would put a tension load onto the closed screw at the point whee it begins to pull appart. what wuld be even better but slower would be through bolting on these holding 2 brackets one on each side of beam for the roof purlin/structure to attach to.
I didn't notice much X bracing anywhere, was the photos missing of these or does the system seem strong enough to be without? this would be a cheap and easy item to add as added wind loads or snow loads become an issue
anyhow just a few items...
MarkM
OP
wroughtn_harv
Super Member
I got a copy of the patent office search from the attorney the other day.
It was interesting to say the least, what the professional searchers looked up that could conflict with my application.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=6,837,016.WKU.&OS=PN/6,837,016&RS=PN/6,837,016
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=5,605,410.WKU.&OS=PN/5,605,410&RS=PN/5,605,410
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=5,238,321.WKU.&OS=PN/5,238,321&RS=PN/5,238,321
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=5,238,321.WKU.&OS=PN/5,238,321&RS=PN/5,238,321
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=4,599,010.WKU.&OS=PN/4,599,010&RS=PN/4,599,010
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=4,074,947.WKU.&OS=PN/4,074,947&RS=PN/4,074,947
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=3,945,741.WKU.&OS=PN/3,945,741&RS=PN/3,945,741
I find the USPTO site a ton of fun. If you enjoy just searching for the sake of searching then do "quick" and use the information available.
It's amazing what's patented. Awhile back I found a patent that was granted rather recently on pipe and succor rod fencing. I don't know how that one got through unless the examiner hadn't been out of Washington DC their whole darn life. They sure has heck had never been to Texas or Oklahoma!
Here's one I got back in the day.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=3,945,741.WKU.&OS=PN/3,945,741&RS=PN/3,945,741
It was interesting to say the least, what the professional searchers looked up that could conflict with my application.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=6,837,016.WKU.&OS=PN/6,837,016&RS=PN/6,837,016
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=5,605,410.WKU.&OS=PN/5,605,410&RS=PN/5,605,410
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=5,238,321.WKU.&OS=PN/5,238,321&RS=PN/5,238,321
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=5,238,321.WKU.&OS=PN/5,238,321&RS=PN/5,238,321
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=4,599,010.WKU.&OS=PN/4,599,010&RS=PN/4,599,010
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=4,074,947.WKU.&OS=PN/4,074,947&RS=PN/4,074,947
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=3,945,741.WKU.&OS=PN/3,945,741&RS=PN/3,945,741
I find the USPTO site a ton of fun. If you enjoy just searching for the sake of searching then do "quick" and use the information available.
It's amazing what's patented. Awhile back I found a patent that was granted rather recently on pipe and succor rod fencing. I don't know how that one got through unless the examiner hadn't been out of Washington DC their whole darn life. They sure has heck had never been to Texas or Oklahoma!
Here's one I got back in the day.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=3,945,741.WKU.&OS=PN/3,945,741&RS=PN/3,945,741
txdon
Super Star Member
Harvey, they do not click and open. You must copy the entire lines and put them into the address bar. Maybe one of the computer guys can get them to open by clicking.
txdon
Super Star Member
Harvey I look at all the images (bottom of page) except for the first two and none of them look like your clips. The second patent 5605410 has expired so it is out and the description on the first one does not sound like your clips.
I think you have an original!
Disclaimer-I am not a patent attorney.
I think you have an original!
Disclaimer-I am not a patent attorney.
rox
Veteran Member
I like your new product! With the discussion about screws, my suggestion would be that you supply the correct screws with the connectors. That way you know that the right screws are being used.
Make it a package, the conectors and the screws. Since the scews are intrugral to the support system control the correct decision for the purchasors by including them.
Also little warning stickers on the connector pieces saying what type of steel tubes to use would be something to consider. There is a vinyl label you can buy which run through an injet printer becomes waterproof. It might be a low cost way to alert the cunsmer to the right type of poles to buy. I use these vinly labels and they are really sticky, they stick good. If you search under google you will find them. If not ples send me a private message and I will look up where I purchase mine from on line.
Again very nice product.
Make it a package, the conectors and the screws. Since the scews are intrugral to the support system control the correct decision for the purchasors by including them.
Also little warning stickers on the connector pieces saying what type of steel tubes to use would be something to consider. There is a vinyl label you can buy which run through an injet printer becomes waterproof. It might be a low cost way to alert the cunsmer to the right type of poles to buy. I use these vinly labels and they are really sticky, they stick good. If you search under google you will find them. If not ples send me a private message and I will look up where I purchase mine from on line.
Again very nice product.
