Finding buried pipe

[kennyd]

Ford!

 

[kennyd]

Chevy!

 

[kennyd]

Dodge!

 

[kennyd]

Harley Davidson!

 

[kennyd]

Honda!

 

[SpringHollow]

JJ,

I can think of reasons why dowsing could be true. The concept is not completely insane. But scientific testing has shown no evidence that it is true and in fact shows compelling evidence that it is not.

Someone asked for a link.

"An early objective scientific test of dowsing was performed in Sydney, Australia, in 1980.[1] The tests were supervised by James Randi and Dick Smith who offered a $40,000 reward to the first successful participant. The reward offer was an early version of what has since developed into Randi痴 million dollar challenge, under which hundreds of dowsers have since been tested. As of 2006, they have all failed to demonstrate any objective dowsing ability."

http://www.faust.com/index.php/legend/dowsing/

Ken

 

[Egon]

They were howling, you just did not hear them.

That is correct! somewhere they were Howling at the Full Moon!

But as I could not hear them I cannot say if they were howling!

 

[/pine]

What would really be nice if one could lay hands on his/her tractor and determine the malfunction, by believing in the magnetic field put out by the malfunction part. Wow, no more service calls.

wow a human MRI machine...!...

can boast about how I can somehow call up the lines of force and determine the source , depth, and the quality of water

why is it you skeptics want to throw the baby out with the bath water? Perhaps once science advances and is able to understand how to use the energy that a few are able to access with dowsing gear now will one day the norm

--------------------------------

...But scientific testing has shown no evidence that it is true and in fact shows compelling evidence that it is not...

What is really compelling is all the physical evidence that it does work out numbers the "scientific" evidence by by a staggering amount (per Google)

 

[/pine]

Post # 54, line 12, "but in fact those two clowns have never "busted" any myth period"
Really ?
Those two clowns have busted so many 'obvious' myths your statement means 0.

for the record...you took my statement out of context...below is what I was replyint to:
Originally Posted by /pine
How in the heck did you come up with that? I never said or implied anything of the like...!

Quote:
>>>... you believe in sticks and bent welding rods locating water lines but not scientific principles??? <<<

How in the heck did you come up with that? I never said or implied anything of the like...!

Those two clowns have busted so many 'obvious' myths your statement means 0.

The only myth those two goofs have busted is that the average TV viewer is difficult to amuse..

The main reason they can't really prove or disprove anything (myth wise) is because it is impossible to re-create spontanious circumstances/scenarios...

 

[SpringHollow]

Hi Pine,

I would be very interested in any well done scientific study that proved dowsing worked. It would need to be a double blind study that is reproducible in order to be a valid test. And if they exist, i wonder why the participants have not gone after the prize. I would be pleased if it could be proven.

All the ones i have ever read that showed any promising positive result were fatally flawed and all the well designed ones failed to show it worked. Did you read the link i posted?

Ken

 

[gwdixon]

This thread has been interesting but divisive. Might as well be arguing politics or religion. There seem to be no agnostics so let me join that group.

As a preface, and like Tom H, I have a University of CA degree in Mathematics with a minor in Physics - with post graduate work.

Quick Story:
A road crew was going to put a culvert under my driveway but had to get USAA to inspect for underground utilities before digging. The supervisor came by to approve the project and said that USAA was used along with the metal wire technique. Rubbish was my response.

He had me find two metal hangers and made the bent wires. He then walked around my property and found buried PVC water pipe and electrical feeds. Some buried for 30 years with no visible clues. I was following along behind him so there were no visual clues from me.

He gave the wires to me and it also worked when I went over the buried lines. What astounded me was that for certain lines the wires would rotate outward while with others they would rotate inward. Repeating the route repeated the result. In no case did the wires rotate to the left or right - always inward or outward.

Being trained on scientific principles there had to be a reasonable and plausible explanation. The phenomenon is observable so deductive reasoning must create a theory for an explanation.

I tried the techinque on a piece of PVC from a stockpile and there was no response from the wires.

A hypothesis is that an electrical field or charge is created that produces a magnetic condition. That is easy with buried electrical cable since electrical flow creates a magnetic field (think electric motor).

Water flow through a aquifer or a pipe, be it PVC or metal, creates friction between the water and the media. Electrons are rubbed from the water molecule creating a charge. Static electricity can produce a magnetic field as well (think lightning).

What about lines with no activity? Static electricity bleeds off in time but since energy can neither be created nor destroyed it remains in the soil stored in rocks or metallic elements. Long abandoned electrical wire or water pipe would be more difficult to find as the charge dissipates further.

One would think that the advanced technology available these days would be able to detect such forces. That not being the case is why my view is that of an agnostic.

I can offer no explanation of why a wooden stick might react to underground water.

Now let's get back to arguing about UDT, SUDT, generic lubricants, and whatever else has a loyal following.

 

[ray66v]

And if they exist, i wonder why the participants have not gone after the prize.
Ken

The James Randi million dollar offer is just as big a scam as his adversaries are.

When people go after the "prize" Randi will dismiss their clams as trickery, and refuses to pay.

It would be the same as proving God exists. Many people claim to have proof of that, and others dismiss it as anecdotal evidence.

Randi knows even if the occult existed, you can't prove it beyond a doubt. So his money is 100% safe.

 

[/pine]

Ken and others...

As a general rule I am as skeptical about these types of things as anyone...I am not a tin foil hat wearer...i.e., Unless something has been proven to me beyond any doubt I'm skeptical...

The fact is I have felt rods move within my hands by a force or energy that was not of my doing...I wish everyone that is skeptical could experience the same thing..."amazing" is a word that comes to mind...

All I can say is...even if you do not believe that dowsing works (the least bit) at least have an open mind about it and either give it a worthy test yourself or ask around your friends if they know anyone that is capable of making a demonstration...
Like I asked before...how sure are you about anything? well I am as sure that I felt rods move on their own power while held in my hands as I am about the existance of this message board...
no matter how hard anyone wants to...there is NO way to prove dowsing does not work to some degree...but it is simple to prove (to yourself) that it does...

---------------------------------

I would really like to see dowsing work, so I can boast about how I can somehow call up the lines of force and determine the source , depth, and the quality of water. That would really be something to brag about.

[time warp]
Alexander Graham Bell to Mr. Watson

I would really like to see this telephonic thing work so I can boast about how I can send electronic correspondence and scan a graphic interface and post messages on interactive interface applications, and be able to remotely access data that is on the other side of the world....That would really be something to brag about.
[/time warp]

 

[dex3361]

I looked to the business that serves the water industry and found that they sell all of the latest electronic witching sticks and low and behold they still sell witching stick version 1.122(first modern version made out of modern metals and space age polymers). For some reason people in the industry deem it a usable product to purchase. Here is the link. Scroll to the right and down a bit. Somebody needs to tell them they don't work and they are selling snake oil.
http://usabluebook.dirxion.com/dialup/

 

[ctgoldwing]

Hey, I just want to thank all the posters in this thread for giving me something entertaining to read this Sunday morning!

I am also of the scientific group (yeah yeah I have an engineering degree in EE) but I (hopefully) have an open mind on things I don't understand. Some of the posts in this thread are so scientifically flawed that they are laughable or at least easily dismissed. Some of the others leave me scratching my head. I guess I would have to have a 'live demonstration' be really be convinced.

It's like I tell my kids (now grown): Only believe 1/2 of what you see, 1/4 of what you read and nothing that you read on the internet.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Well just came back in after clearing snow from my drive, my brothers drive and down the hill. In Ky this much snow is a rare occurance. Guess we got 8 inches. Did some of it in rabbit speed. When I would back up into a pile that I had pushed I sometimes had to step on the diff lock but very rarely to get back out. Used front bucket. No snow blower or blade. Now my neighbor is doing his with his BX2350. I used my BX2660 and it done great. Sun is shining so it should dry my drive in an hour or 2 at the current 20 something degrees. Here's Ron working and probably selling the neighbor on getting him a Kubota. If so, then there will be 5 of us. Just a break from dousing.

 

[jimmer2880]

referring to others as "idjits" (what you mean is "idiots") because you do not believe in something that they know for a fact works (at least to some degree) says more about your own intellectual depth than it does about those you disparage by name calling...

BTW how about answering my question about how well you understand the fact that the farther one gets from the center of the Earth the slower time moves? huh?

Thank you. I love it when people to clame to be intelligent are so full of themselves that anyone who doesn't believe the same way they do must be idiots.

The same thing goes with belief in a higher power (God, Allah, etc). Billions of people believe in a higher force are called idiots by so called "people of science", just because science hasn't figured out how to proove it's existance.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Oops! Wrong pictures. Here's the right ones. More break.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

In the south there is a common expression of "I'm going to straighten them out and just give them a piece of my mind and tell them". Now some southerners sit around and fish or whatever and think. Some of those thinkers came to the conclusion one day that those people that were going to "straighten them out and give them a piece of their mind" didn't have enough to spare and should probably keep all they have. I don't douse and haven't ever seen anyone do it. I do have a water line that I want to disconnect and I don't know exactly where it comes off of the other line that I want to keep. I know it is somewhere between the meter and where it goes into the house. Rather than dig the whole yard up, I'm going to try to find it with a wire coat hanger. If I can't find it, I'm going to let Jamie try and find it with the coat hanger since he will be handy(southern for nearby). If neither one of us can find it then I'm going to have Jamie get out the ole trenching shovel and see if he can find it by digging, starting near the water meter. Now, if I find it with the coat hanger will I believe in douseing? I don't know that I will believe in it but I will be able to say I tried it one time and it didn't work for me or Jamie or it did work one time for me and/or Jamie. If I find it and claim it did work, then am I stupid or a liar? I think not! If I don't find it, should I accuse those that claim they did of being stupid or liars? I think not. Now boys, I've sometimes gotten really upset at something someone said or did that I took personal. Not for something they said that wasn't personal, like statements of something someone said they believed. When I've gotten upset at something someone did or said that I took as personal I've sometimes "give them a piece of my mind" and now I really wish I hadn't because I've found I need more than I have and sure hate I've wasted some of it by giving it away. Other times I've written a letter to them that I would be ashamed for my Mother or Pastor to see and one day I did that and then threw it away. Writing it helped me so much but throwing it away helped even more in the long run since I didn't have to apologize later when I found out part of what I said maybe wasn't accurate. Great thing about the internet and forums is that even though (since) we aren't having to look the person in the eye we can write a scathing letter about how ugly, stupid and dumb they and their mother are and then just hit delete and feel so much better. Once it's posted it's usually gone for the world to read and remember forever. There is edit but sometimes it's read before we want our piece of mind back and do edit. Have a great day and write all them nasty letters and then delete.

 

[SpringHollow]

As i have said before, i can think of reasons why dowsing could be real so i do not instantly dismiss it as quackery. In fact i would prefer it were true and actually could have easily believed it was true for moving water. But i can think of no reasons why it can not pass scientific muster if it is true. This is one of the most easy things to test that i can think of. It can be done with only a few hundred dollars worth of materials (garden hoses) and a dowser. In the tests where the dowsers were able to practice ahead of time and it worked for them when they knew the answer ahead of time. They agreed that the upcoming test would be fair, that the conditions were favorable for them. And then they failed the test. I would not want to be betting against those odds.

And as i mentioned earlier, dowsing worked 100% for me in HS when i already knew the answer which still is surprising since i was not consciously trying to get a response.

If my property wasn't covered in springs, i would conduct the double blind test myself with a local dowser and a few assistants. Bury some very long garden hose with the end in a buried sump and the on/off valve out of sight (i could turn it on and off from inside the house at my place). Run several timed patterns (say in 2 minute intervals, sometimes multiple on ones in a row, sometimes multiple off, clock of the valve person and a dowsing assistant synchronized). Maybe even try it with everyone wearing headsets playing music. If they say they can tell when it is flowing when they know the answer, the test is on. The person at the valve then repeats the intervals with only they knowing whether any particular interval is on or off, writing down a log. It would be hard to imagine that the people a couple of hundred feet away that are outside of the house would be able to tell without the dowsing working.

Ken

Better yet, i could easily program a computer to randomly turn a solenoid valve on and off, logging which it does. Then during the known phase, someone tells everyone what it is doing. During the unknown phase, no one is even in the room. If there is a dowser in the area that thinks the springs will not affect things, let me know and i will set it up with them agreeing to flow rates etc by testing first.