flail mowers waist HP?

[sandman2234]

I also never remove my 2 blades from my rotary mower, and therefore don't have busted knuckles because of it. If maintence sharpening is all I am doing, it doesn't take long, but if I have left it all year, mowing stranger's lots, it takes a little while longer. I could probably do it faster if I used a 7 or 9 inch grinder instead of a 4 inch, but I just don't feel as comfortable doing that.
However, my 4' flail mower hanging from the boom arm getting the 54 blades sharpened did bite me once. Actually it was the grinder, as it slipped and took a chunk out of my thumb. My JD flail only has 36 blades, but takes just as long to sharpen, since I have to sit under the tractor 3pt hitch while sharpening them. The mower is sitting on something like a trailer while I do it. Just a light touch to each blade tip is all it takes, while the bush hog blades take a little grinding. Really depends on the condition of the blades.
The horsepower of each mower uses what it uses. If the O/P has one or the other, what does it matter which one uses more horsepower, as we just use a different gear if the horsepower requirement is too much for the speed we are going. Different situations call for different tactics.
David from jax

 

[foreman Etexas]

I started mowing my yard with my 8ft shredder cause the mow looks as good as the lawn mower and its gets done way quicker(I dont agree with the rough cut).

Once you go pull-type u never go back!!:thumbsup:

 

[slowzuki]

I use my bushhog to mow my lawn as well. People can't tell if I don't tell them. Sharp blades and she gives a good cut. Can't do that in rough ground without scalping though. Thats where a flail shines.

BTW Flail mower uses more hp per acre to cut when compared to a bushhog with the nose slightly down so material isn't rechopped. Part of the reason is the sort of mulching effect of the flail.

 

[slowzuki]

I use my bushhog to mow my lawn as well. People can't tell if I don't tell them. Sharp blades and she gives a good cut. Can't do that in rough ground without scalping though. Thats where a flail shines.

BTW Flail mower uses more hp per acre to cut when compared to a bushhog with the nose slightly down so material isn't rechopped. Part of the reason is the sort of mulching effect of the flail.

 

[beppington]

I use my bushhog to mow my lawn as well. People can't tell if I don't tell them. Sharp blades and she gives a good cut. Can't do that in rough ground without scalping though. Thats where a flail shines.

BTW Flail mower uses more hp per acre to cut when compared to a bushhog with the nose slightly down so material isn't rechopped. Part of the reason is the sort of mulching effect of the flail.

And the bigger the lawn, the more that's true :thumbsup: If you mow a 2-acre (or bigger) field with a rotary & look at it from the edge or from a distance, it can look just like a neighborhood lawn.

 

[bandit67]

Found this: The power requirement for flail models is another factor. According to a 2004 university extension report written by Graeme R. Quick, former adjunct professor of Agriculture and Biosystems Engineering at Iowa State University, flail mowers require the most power when compared with other mower types. This, in turn, will determine the size of tractor needed.

I just sold my Rhino rotary cutter mainly because it was too small for my current machine, and have decided to go with a flail mower. The main reason I decided on that type is that I have to mow both rough field grasses & weeds, along with lawn grasses, and I wanted one mower to handle both tasks (tired of mowing the large amount of lawn-type grass with a small push mower. We don't get enough precipitation here and therefore I don't mow frequently enough to justify me owning both a rotary cutter and a finish mower. Since the lawn grasses aren't your typical highly manicured, thick, lush type, I figure a single mult-purpose mower should handle both tasks adequately.

Another complaint I had with the rotary cutter was that it took WAY too much time to get close to trees, fences, shrubs, boulders, etc based on the wide swing out the back of the machine, and I have a lot of trees around the property, so being able to get in tighter with a more "compact" mower appealed to me.

One more thing - in very tall grasses, the rotary cutter left very long cut pieces all over the place, whereas the flail should leave much finer cuttings that should give a better overall appearance.

I would have definitely gone with a 6' rotary cutter, but I may only go with a 5' flail mower - not so much due to hp considerations, but because it must handle both field mowing and finish mowing duties, with lots of trees scattered all about hilly terrain.

 

[SPYDERLK]

What definition of efficiency are you asking me for?

Is it the definition of power in terms of force, distance moved in time?


Power= force x distance moved divided by time.

An over sized comparison to a hammer flail mower would be the "Pennsylvania Crusher Companies Bradford Breaker Hammer Mill Sizer" which is also operates on a horizontal axis.


Unfortunately for me I am not computer literate enough to type the formulas for rotating bodies and throw wieghts of objects attached to them.

I was asking for your definition because it is possible to do more work accomplishing a basic task, but get something for that extra work. With a flail you get finer chopped clippings. Problem is you stir a lot more air than a rotary mower. That is a sure source for relative inefficiency, ... whereas the part of the energy spent on finer clippings may be extra energy well spent because its what you want. A better result for your purpose. You get something you value to factor against the greater energy used to cut the grass. You are doing more work useful to you for the extra energy. Easy to see how that could be considered to be as, or more, efficient.
larry

 

[eagle107]

Another complaint I had with the rotary cutter was that it took WAY too much time to get close to trees, fences, shrubs, boulders, etc based on the wide swing out the back of the machine, and I have a lot of trees around the property, so being able to get in tighter with a more "compact" mower appealed to me.

One more thing - in very tall grasses, the rotary cutter left very long cut pieces all over the place, whereas the flail should leave much finer cuttings that should give a better overall appearance.

I would have definitely gone with a 6' rotary cutter, but I may only go with a 5' flail mower - not so much due to hp considerations, but because it must handle both field mowing and finish mowing duties, with lots of trees scattered all about hilly terrain.

I have been using a flail mower for years to cut both my field and lawn: 9 years with a Motts flail mower, and now, 9 years with a 918H New Holland flail mower. Cutting around trees with a flail mower is a pain and you cannot turn with a flail like you can with a finishing or rotary cut mower. Every time you cut a path/row, at the end of the row you have to pick up the flail mower, turn and set it back down. Now you can try to turn with a flail but you risk knocking out the bearings on the flail痴 large backend roller because of the stress with the turning. You can also put a lot of stress on the flail痴 three point hitch痴 linkages when turning. I just had one of the three point hitch痴 links on the 918H deck snap off and now need to get it welded. In addition, when cutting a lawn, you have to go much slower because if you hit a rough area/patch in the lawn and you are going too fast, the roller/deck will start to bounce and can cause an uneven wave effect in the lawn.

Finally, this year during the spring it was very wet and I could not get out into the field for over a month to cut it. During that time, the field really got away from me. My neighbor helped me cut the field using his Woods PDR8400 (7') mower and I used my 6' flail. When I used my flail, it cut the field fine at a snail痴 pace (any faster, the tractor bogged down), chopping everything up and leaving large clumps of grass while my neighbor blew pass me using his mower (that Woods was cutting the field almost like a brush hog); we both cut at a 2 ｽ to a 3 height. Needless to say, by the time I cut a third of the field with the flail, my neighbor was done cutting the other three quarters of the field. I had to continually lift the mower up turn and set it down, while my neighbor was in continuous motion with his mower. I like the flail mower, but I have finally come to the realization that the mower has to be maintained more and is just too slow. This is why I am moving to a Woods PDR8400 myself.

Do not be surprise if you find yourself taking more time to mow you lawn and field. In my humble opinion, you might be better off getting a heavier duty finishing mower to handle both your mowing tasks.

 

[bandit67]

I have been using a flail mower for years to cut both my field and lawn: 9 years with a Motts flail mower, and now, 9 years with a 918H New Holland flail mower. Cutting around trees with a flail mower is a pain and you cannot turn with a flail like you can with a finishing or rotary cut mower. Every time you cut a path/row, at the end of the row you have to pick up the flail mower, turn and set it back down. Now you can try to turn with a flail but you risk knocking out the bearings on the flail痴 large backend roller because of the stress with the turning. You can also put a lot of stress on the flail痴 three point hitch痴 linkages when turning. I just had one of the three point hitch痴 links on the 918H deck snap off and now need to get it welded. In addition, when cutting a lawn, you have to go much slower because if you hit a rough area/patch in the lawn and you are going too fast, the roller/deck will start to bounce and can cause an uneven wave effect in the lawn.

Finally, this year during the spring it was very wet and I could not get out into the field for over a month to cut it. During that time, the field really got away from me. My neighbor helped me cut the field using his Woods PDR8400 (7') mower and I used my 6' flail. When I used my flail, it cut the field fine at a snail痴 pace (any faster, the tractor bogged down), chopping everything up and leaving large clumps of grass while my neighbor blew pass me using his mower (that Woods was cutting the field almost like a brush hog); we both cut at a 2 ｽ to a 3 height. Needless to say, by the time I cut a third of the field with the flail, my neighbor was done cutting the other three quarters of the field. I had to continually lift the mower up turn and set it down, while my neighbor was in continuous motion with his mower. I like the flail mower, but I have finally come to the realization that the mower has to be maintained more and is just too slow. This is why I am moving to a Woods PDR8400 myself.

Do not be surprise if you find yourself taking more time to mow you lawn and field. In my humble opinion, you might be better off getting a heavier duty finishing mower to handle both your mowing tasks.

Hmm, interesting bit of information. It's been 20 years since I ran a Befco 3pt rear finish mower, but it was on a nice lush lawn in Connecticut. Maybe I should look into some sort of heavy duty rear finish mower instead.

I still want one dual duty mower, and like the idea of 4 wheels on the ground. Was wondering how the big long roller of the flail was going to handle the rough terrain, many turns, and rocks that grow out of the ground like mushrooms all season. Other concern was being able to mow at 6-8 inches, since that is the only way to keep the field grasses from burning up and dying in the intense sun of 1.5 miles above sea level.

 

[DaveOmak]

flail vs rotary---which does more work and takes more HP.....
6' flail and a 6' rotary......your neighbor has both......one weekend he uses the flail to mow his 2 acre pasture. two weeks later he uses the rotarty to mow his 2 acre pasture.......You are watching from the front porch on both occasions...you thought about checking you watch to see how long it took......instead you grabbed another cold beer and sat back........
Question.....which used more HP.....Which took the longest........
It took more HP to get up and get another cold beer than watching either one cut the 2 acres......That is the way I figure it.....

 

[greg_g]

Other concern was being able to mow at 6-8 inches

More easily done with a rotary cutter, but 8" is usually the upper limit for TPH type rotary cutters too. The higher you raise a RC, the less suction there is below the deck. So depending on how tall the stuff is going into the deck, you may find an 8" setting leaves an uneven cut left behind.

//greg//

 

[leonz]

Hmm, interesting bit of information. It's been 20 years since I ran a Befco 3pt rear finish mower, but it was on a nice lush lawn in Connecticut. Maybe I should look into some sort of heavy duty rear finish mower instead.

I still want one dual duty mower, and like the idea of 4 wheels on the ground. Was wondering how the big long roller of the flail was going to handle the rough terrain, many turns, and rocks that grow out of the ground like mushrooms all season. Other concern was being able to mow at 6-8 inches, since that is the only way to keep the field grasses from burning up and dying in the intense sun of 1.5 miles above sea level.

====================================================================================================


As far as the rear roller is concerned the issues of turning are no problem
as the roller is simply following the tractors turning arc where the mower
roller track is wider than the tractor.

If it falls apart when turning the bearing is shot from lack of grease and
simply inspecting the hangers for the roller to assure the bolts are tight.


The roller will have no issues with rolling over rocks at normal mowing
speeds as they are made of thick tubular steel.


As far as burning the grass you can simply set the rear roller to its lowest
mounting adjustment on the side weldments which will create the highest
cut for the flail mower so no worries there.

If you purchase a flailmower with the finish rotor you can simply readjust
the rear roller for a higher cut on the good turf you have if you desire to do so.



_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[leonz]

I was asking for your definition because it is possible to do more work accomplishing a basic task, but get something for that extra work. With a flail you get finer chopped clippings. Problem is you stir a lot more air than a rotary mower. That is a sure source for relative inefficiency, ... whereas the part of the energy spent on finer clippings may be extra energy well spent because its what you want. A better result for your purpose. You get something you value to factor against the greater energy used to cut the grass. You are doing more work useful to you for the extra energy. Easy to see how that could be considered to be as, or more, efficient.
larry

====================================================================================================



Hello Larry hope all is well,

The largest thing which I know helps finish rotor flail mowers for me
are the air paddles on my Mathews Lawn Genie.

The air paddles are full rotor width hinged steel paddles three inches
long and 48 inches wide that are set between the four knife rows
separated by two rows of knives with the air paddles at 180-degree polar opposites.

One of the other members (Hooked on HP) has a 5 foot Lawn Genie Pick Up Mower
with a five foot finish rotor and five foot air paddles as well.


Finding that the Caroni and other brands do not have the air paddle for the 2 and 4
row rotors was a bit of a surprise and dissappointment as the air paddles add
considerably to the suction of the grass slicer flail knives.

The Wessex pick up flail mowers as well as the italian pick up mowers have the
air paddles to aid in filling the grass hopper on the mowers.

Air paddles could be added to the two and four row rotors and it is something that
can be done by a machine shop for the mower owner and the mower would be much
more capable as the increased suction created by the air paddles would aid the
A, B,and F rotors considerably in mowing.

If most of the flailmowers sold had the air paddles they would mow much more efficiently
as the air paddles would add that much more centrifugal mass to the rotor mass in total
adding to the throw weight created by the centrifugal force created by the power take off,
gear box, belt drive and V-belts used to deliver the power to the flailmotor rotor to do work.

 

[AlanB]

I have an old Mott Finishing type flail and a KK RC. Both around 5'. I have a 1925 NH (Predecessor to the TC33 or 35)

Flail definitely takes more HP, overheats the tractor quicker, burns more fuel, makes it work harder in similar grass situations.

For me, each has it's place. I bought the flail for my wife's lawncare business when she had very overgrown houses to mow, the flail tends not to throw stuff like a RC. An RC in a tight neighborhood where you have kids playing etc, even with chains, flaps etc, when it gets hold of that Dog chain you missed, or metal pipe, or water meter cover turned on end pieces are headed out.

If I had to have just one, we use the RC more, and can cut more variety of stuff with it, but there is some drawbacks in some situations.

Also for me, the Flail is considerably more maintenance and it is $$ when then dang little clips, rings and blades start coming off (after hitting all the aforementioned stuff) none of it is expensive on its own, but I tend not to loose one, but look back and see a group gone.

Good luck on your decision.