Loader Flipped my L48 Kubota

[ultrarunner]

A lot of the old car events now require a fire extinguisher...

 

[Soundguy]

Agree it's time for the new head. I missed it (somewhere in this thread probably) but how on earth does flipping a machine over result in a new water path internal to the head on the engine !!?? I don't understand the mode of failure.

Lets break down a couple possibilities....do you understand hydrolock?

Both valves for a cyl closed water ( fluid, oil, etc.. ) in cylinder, piston goes up.. er.. or tries to, and can't, because water is essentially uncompressable ( at these temps and pressures ).

So it's the old irresistable force meeting the immovable object.

many times you get bent connecting rods, damaged cranks, broken blocks, etc.. in this case, my bet is the webbing in the head over the combustion chamber had a spot that was a hair weaker than anything else in that pressure cylinder. Who knows, might have sucked up oil on one stroke and popped it on another then started drinking water.

headbolts might have stretched and let fluids in, then let it water hammer it.

lots of possibilities for these modes of failure.

 

[ovrszd]

do you understand hydrolock?

Both valves for a cyl closed water in cylinder, piston goes up.. er.. or tries to, and can't, because water is essentially uncompressable ( at these temps and pressures ).

So it's the old irresistable force meeting the immovable object.

many times you get bent connecting rods, damaged cranks, broken blocks, etc.. in this case, my bet is the webbing in the head over the combustion chamber had a spot that was a hair weaker than anything else in that pressure cylinder. Who knows, might have sucked up oil on one stroke and popped it on another then started drinking water.

headbolts might have stretched and let fluids in, then let it water hammer it.

lots of possibilities for these modes of failure.

Well explained.

The bold part clearly explains "a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link" theory.

 

[DrivewayMan]

Ordered a new head from Kumar Bros. Complete head with vales and gasket $799.99. It was $751 for the head, and they let me have the gasket for $49. Should have it in a couple days. I will keep you posted.

 

[ultrarunner]

Here's hoping for success...

 

[JWR]

The original post described a severe over-revving event with likely destructive combustion pressures and mechanical overload. The engine was stopped before multiple failures happened. But at one spot in the head combustion pressure broke an internal web to a water passage. The tough thing is that there could be other parts that got over-stressed and may not hold up after this. No real way to tell without putting it back together and running it.

Rbargeron -- I hear you and no doubt you are far more experienced than I with overrevving diesels. All evidence indicates that nothing touched that head other than compressed gases and antifreeze solution. I would be absolutely astounded that compressed gas ever broke through a partition in a cast metal head. [Have you actually known of a case of that happening for sure?] Surely the head gaskets would give long before that wouldn't they ? The rods too. What do think about maybe a mechanical impact crack of some sort ... but that would have left destructive marks surely. I'm just puzzled.

 

[Soundguy]

You can have gas cutting from excessive temps, and you can have detonation for various reasons. I know for sure those can set back ir blow ring lands off or hole pistons.

I'd be wanting to check the connecting rod, piston, piston wrist, crank bearing, and journal on that cyl that obviously hydrolocked. 7xx$ would be hard to choke down if a new crankcase vent opened in the block on that cyl after some load and rpms hit it.

 

[rbargeron]

......I would be absolutely astounded that compressed gas ever broke through a partition in a cast metal head....Surely the head gaskets would give long before that wouldn't they ? The rods too....

Soundguy covered several of the likely explanation(s) - one of the internal webs was the weak spot, and hydrolocking might have finished it off. Internal combustion engines can malfunction if conditions aren't normal (interesting reading here). It can happen in diesels if temps go way up. Detonation and/or pre-ignition describe extreme pressure pulses that can be destructive. The damage can be severe, leaving only wreckage to study. Other times many parts take the extreme load and only one is visibly broken. Others can have hidden cracks or slight buckling that show up later - or may not.

It's a lot of wrenching to get the engine out of an L48. A complete tear-down now for inspection is hard to justify. Maybe best to put a head on it so it at least runs and then keep close tabs on how it sounds & acts. An L48 is a lot of tractor and is worth replacing the block. A step at a time makes sense.

 

[IH3444]

Most likely has a bend, torqued, or twisted rod. Installing a head without a complete inspection of rods straightness, crank straightness, rod-main journal diameter measurements and surface inspections is just asking for additional major problems. Sound guy is right on the money. I still can't tell what caused the L48 to turn over on it's side, and no reason has been offer. It looks to be operating on very level ground, and parking lot space. The absolute best of luck with just the head installation. I hope it works out for the best. Even just a slightly bend in any internal engine parts will wreck havoc. bearing may have been flatten also.

 

[Oldpath05]

Is this thread is a good selling point for gas powered tractors, not to mention gas motors are a lot quieter, just thinking out loud.

 

[Soundguy]

Is this thread is a good selling point for gas powered tractors, not to mention gas motors are a lot quieter, just thinking out loud.

50hp is kinda the breaking point though. Much over that and gas are hungry

 

[rmk700]

Most likely has a bend, torqued, or twisted rod. Installing a head without a complete inspection of rods straightness, crank straightness, rod-main journal diameter measurements and surface inspections is just asking for additional major problems. Sound guy is right on the money. I still can't tell what caused the L48 to turn over on it's side, and no reason has been offer. It looks to be operating on very level ground, and parking lot space. The absolute best of luck with just the head installation. I hope it works out for the best. Even just a slightly bend in any internal engine parts will wreck havoc. bearing may have been flatten also.

My guess is with the combination of the weight of whatever is stuck in the loader bucket and it raised up, along with no backhoe attachment on for ballast, the right rear tire may have crawled up on something and without rapidly slamming the loader bucket down it went over.

 

[IH3444]

rmk700, when I was a very inexperienced operator with the IH3444 I had the bucket raised with a heaping load and was making a turn on an upward grade. I "felt" the machine go light on one rear corner and began tilting towards the opposite front corner, I immediately lowered the bucket down to just above the ground. I know what you are speaking about. I just barely saved myself. NO ROPS on the older machines also. I think you are spot on, I now see the ditch in the picture. Crossing it other that straight on with cause what you described. Terrible mistake, thank goodness no one was injured. The L48 has always been one of my "dream machines". That and the Cat 110. The IH3444 is an absolute brute thought, real piece of heavy equipment. The 2120, 14 foot hoe is extremely powerful for it's age. Just used it this fall, still a real beast.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Is this thread is a good selling point for gas powered tractors, not to mention gas motors are a lot quieter, just thinking out loud.

AND if it was gas, and some gas leaked out, catching fire and burning the tractor to the ground... Someone right now would be saying,

"Is this thread is a good selling point for diesel powered tractors"

SR

 

[4570Man]

Is this thread is a good selling point for gas powered tractors, not to mention gas motors are a lot quieter, just thinking out loud.

I'd have to disagree with being quieter. Let's hook a max load to the PTO and see which does better. Don't bother trying to compare fuel consumption because it will make your wallet hurt.

 

[MossRoad]

I had a 50hp gas powered IH2500b tractor loader for 10-15 years. It wasn't any louder or quieter than any other machine of that size, diesel or gas. As for fuel consumption, I always ran it at PTO speed, as that was recommended since it was an HST tranny, and as I recall, I burned a couple gallons per hour. At less than 100 hours per year, it wasn't a concern. For a commercial operator, it would be a concern, for sure.

 

[Soundguy]

Yup, a working gasser over 50hp can get thirsty.

 

[Oldpath05]

50hp is kinda the breaking point though. Much over that and gas are hungry

I don't know why but out 3 or 4 comments, this is the only one that made since to me.
Back in early 70s, I tipped over 1948-ish Case, no fire, broke the steering post, motor wasn't hurt, Father wasn't too up set. Tipped over brother in-laws late 1950s JD put put pot pot, love that sound, didn't catch fire and no damage, up-righted, started up in 10 min or so.

Now the pound sound, maybe it's just in automobiles, but I have walked by some cars and some pickups the ones with quiet exhaust, I had to listen close to here the engine running, but a diesel car or pickup, they always sound like there's a bunch chipmunks running around on a washboard inside, My L3400 is on the boarder line of warring herring protection.

 

[Oldpath05]

Is this thread is a good selling point for battery powered tractors, not to mention that battery motors are a lot quieter, just thinking out loud.

 

[MossRoad]

Is this thread is a good selling point for battery powered tractors, not to mention that battery motors are a lot quieter, just thinking out loud.