Ford says YES to CNG F-150!

[powerstroke444e]

I looked at a used f450 02 I think I was a crew cab xlt 4x4 and it had cng and unleaded with a v10.
Looking back I should have bought it. I still see it getting used daily by a local landscape company. And all there trucks are v10 cng

 

[HappyOne]

Looks like a semi factory option for F250's and F350's has been around for a few years.

CNG Test Drive: Ford F-250 SD Bi-Fuel - PickupTrucks.com News

 

[sd455dan]

I know some of the systems were a gas system and distance was a huge issue and the tanks were large. Now they are using liquefied and the tanks can be smaller and distance greater. The article says for is claiming 700 miles. Although usually they refer to it as LNG, but I've also seen it as CNG which would be the gas just compressed.

Priced the cooling systems and insulated tanks to run LNG ??? Average state change takes place at -260F

Not cost feasible for everyday highway use, because to build facilities to keep it stored at temps and in cryo tanks for your average (gas station) is just to expensive

CNG- LNG there is a big difference... LNG costs more to prepare to be liquified due to having to remove- heavy hydro carbons , helium, dust, acid gasses and other impurities not necessary for cng production..

 

[two_bit_score]

Shame there not offering it in F250's and F350's.

Lets hope that comes next. And soon!

 

[two_bit_score]

CNG has a long way to go to become mainstream.
... ... ...
It has taken well over twenty years of development to get this far. This is not the first time CNG is being touted as the next best fuel.

Yeah, well, it always takes time and effort to get ahead. Doesn't it.

Bet you were one of those guys who said to keep the buggy whip factory up and running because we're gonna need 'em when we go back to 'real horsepower'.

 

[two_bit_score]

Priced the cooling systems and insulated tanks to run LNG ??? Average state change takes place at -260F

Not cost feasible for everyday highway use, because to build facilities to keep it stored at temps and in cryo tanks for your average (gas station) is just to expensive

CNG- LNG there is a big difference... LNG costs more to prepare to be liquified due to having to remove- heavy hydro carbons , helium, dust, acid gasses and other impurities not necessary for cng production..

Uh...yeh....think they have that covered.

 

[TCowner]

This is great news. While most of us won't rush to purchase a vehicle that can run on CNG, but if some do, it is a benefit to the rest of us. There have been several articles published recently that show the Saudi's are actually afraid of the oil production coming out of North Dakota. They worry that their hold on the price of oil may tumble if Montana and North Dakota continue to produce record amounts of oil. So if every day that someone converts from gasoline/diesel to CNG its another vehicle that needs less of what the Saudi's want to hold us hostage to. But of course, we all know that high oil prices are what allowed the Bakken oil fields to be developed so there will always be an American interest in high oil prices.

I just believe that CNG use in our cars and trucks, even if it starts out small, and increase domestic oil production will allow us further cause the Saudi's and their friends to not sleep so well at night.

 

[Renze]

Just remember,CNG is also non renewable.

Even crude is renewable, it just take a looongg time for it to form.

Whats the B.S. about renewable fuels ? Biogas or woodchips emit just as much carbon when burned. When taking the entire chain, woodchips emit even more Co2 per unit of usable energy because chipping requires a lot more fuel than drilling for oil !

The whole thing about renewable fuel is it helps politicians harvest votes from the ignorant.

 

[JESSE1]

There's four CNG fueling stations being built in our area. Makes sense for locally run trucks. Used to see lots of propane powered trucks and tractors when more gas engines were being used. Butane was commonly used before propane so powering vehicles with a gas is not new. Just need the infrastucture to be developed for CNG to be successful.

 

[timster2]

Yeah, well, it always takes time and effort to get ahead. Doesn't it.

Bet you were one of those guys who said to keep the buggy whip factory up and running because we're gonna need 'em when we go back to 'real horsepower'.

On the contrary no I am not. Lets just say I have over twenty four years experience in building, designing, running, converting, maintaining, purchasing and integrating CNG vehicles into a major municipal fleet. I am one of those that did put in the time an effort to make it work, a very long and uphill battle. What you have today is in part through my efforts. I am just a realist and understand the process in much more depth than a headline or news announcement.

As for LNG you will not see it available for anything but fleet service heavy duty trucks. LNG is one fuel that requires maintenance. You cannot just fuel up and forget like gas or diesel. If the vehicle is out of service for a major repair, accident etc. the fuel must be unloaded and stored otherwise the fuel will warm up and pressure relief valves on the fuel tanks will purge the excess pressure. Not something you want to happen parked indoors or in your yard. And LNG is colorless and odorless and burns invisible in sunlight. Much like lighting a propane torch in sunlight you cannot see the flame. Natural gas and propane are colorless and odorless, a small amount of methyl mercaptan or ethyl mercaptan is added to make it easy to detect a gas leak. The odorant is lost in the liquefaction process.

Just like Diesel cars are the norm in Europe and NG cars are the norm in South America these thing will take time in the US. With CNG its a chicken and egg thing when it comes to fuel stations. It costs several hundred thousand dollars to install a CNG fuel dispenser, compressor and storage cylinder at a fueling station. If you don't have a lot of vehicles to fuel its a loosing proposition. Government and gas company subsidies have given the CNG industry a jump start but only continued increase in CNG powered vehicles will sustain the momentum.

Any questions just ask and I will provide whatever insight I can.

 

[HappyOne]

At home I have a liquid propane tank in my yard. It gets filled about once a year. It's not protected from heat. How does that differ from what would be in a pickup?

 

[k0ua]

At home I have a liquid propane tank in my yard. It gets filled about once a year. It's not protected from heat. How does that differ from what would be in a pickup?

James there is a big difference in the molecule size of LP (Propane) vs. Methane or "natural gas" The propane is closer to being a liquid at Standard Temperature and Pressure and to be in a liquid state it does not have to be kept as cool and under as high of a pressure as Methane. Propane has 3 carbon atoms bonded together with Hydrogen atoms on the remaining bonding locations so it is C3H8. so a much larger than CH4 which is Methane. Gasoline which is a pretty stable liquid in standard temps and pressure is larger yet, its main ingredient is octane 8 carbon atoms with 18 hydrogen atoms.

 

[timster2]

LNG is a cryogenic liquid and is stored and maintained at −260 °F at low pressure in insulated storage vessels. When the temperature of the LNG rises so does the pressure once it hits the rated pressure of the storage vessel the overpressure vent valves relieve the excess pressure. Propane is stored at atmospheric temperature and relativity low pressure. Like any insulated container some heat transfers or is lost through the insulation. CNG is typically stored at 3600 Psi in the fuel cylinders at atmospheric temperatures.

 

[two_bit_score]

On the contrary no I am not. Lets just say I have over twenty four years experience in building, designing, running, converting, maintaining, purchasing and integrating CNG vehicles into a major municipal fleet. I am one of those that did put in the time an effort to make it work, a very long and uphill battle. What you have today is in part through my efforts. I am just a realist and understand the process in much more depth than a headline or news announcement.

Any questions just ask and I will provide whatever insight I can.

You can relax. I think they've looked into all that already.

 

[timster2]

At home I have a liquid propane tank in my yard. It gets filled about once a year. It's not protected from heat. How does that differ from what would be in a pickup?

CNG in a pickup would be stored in cylinders at 3600 psi and unlike propane it is stored as a compressed gas, no liquid. The high pressure cylinders are what add the most to the incremental cost of running CNG. The cylinders would be protected from the exhaust system and impact damage.

 

[crazyal]

That tank in the bed of the truck looks to be about equal to 21 gallons of gasoline. The article says that the engine will get 23 mpg running on CNG highway. So you're range should be pretty good. Plus if the truck still has it's gasoline system then you could switch over. I think the range of 750 miles is from using both gasoline and CNG. At about $2 a gallon for CNG there's is potential for savings. But you'll need a compressor capable of 3600 psi to fill it up at your house. Has Ford released any numbers on how much power you will loose? I remember reading about a Honda with a 1.8L engine that dropped from 140hp running gasoline to 110hp running CNG. That's almost a 30% hit. Then, of course, you loose quite a bit of bed space, looks like 25% or more.

F-150 CNG Systems

 

[Scooby074]

Its a chicken and egg thing as mentioned, but the stations are coming.

Currently Irving (major gasoline refiner/retailer in Eastern Canada and Maine) is building a "Natural Gas Corridor" of new stations to provide NG to trucks traveling from Nova Scotia to Ontario. Once this is finished I fully expect to see many more CNG trucks on the road. Right now it seems that only fleets like city buses have adopted it here.

Irving eyes LNG corridor | The Chronicle Herald

 

[HappyOne]

I gotta get after the gas company to extend their lines another mile and a half. I could ditch the propane tank and provide my own fueling station. Biggest issue I see with LNG is the tank. My next truck will see some duty hauling a pickup camper so I hope they find a way to do it without taking cargo space some time soon. You know the market will be wanting it.

 

[crazyal]

I think CNG is an all or nothing type of solution. Running it in an engine that's designed for gas is like buying a gear tractor that's designed for pulling a plow and then trying to use that tractor for loader work. Sure it'll work but you loose the time saving advantage that a tractor with HST would give you. To get the full advantage out of CNG you would need to change the compression ratio. I'm not sure if Ford could play around with the boost from the turbos to help offset this. It could be possible to have different boost levels for CNG and gas, not sure how much it would help.

 

[two_bit_score]

I think CNG is an all or nothing type of solution. Running it in an engine that's designed for gas is like buying a gear tractor that's designed for pulling a plow and then trying to use that tractor for loader work. Sure it'll work but you loose the time saving advantage that a tractor with HST would give you. To get the full advantage out of CNG you would need to change the compression ratio. I'm not sure if Ford could play around with the boost from the turbos to help offset this. It could be possible to have different boost levels for CNG and gas, not sure how much it would help.

I tend to see it that way too. I'm not too keen on the combo idea but I think Ford must be looking at it as a crossover type vehicle. If the break even point is three years then an owner who had it five years would have saved some money in the last two years and as additional fueling stations would have hopefully been opened they would be more inclined to buy a single fuel vehicle by then.