From a B3030HSDC to a Toolcat?

[Rolando]

I'm re-thinking the 56 hp turbo diesel, they also have a 44 hp that may be more appropriate. I was thinking that I wanted as much power as possible for the land clearing, but I think I would loose traction before I got past the 44 horses. It's easy to be swayed by the power of the "Force" (more is always better). But there's a premium to be paid for the Turbo and why pay it if you're not going to use it.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Diesels, unlike gasoline engines, really don't like to be run at idle or for short periods.)</font>

On this idling thing though, what about all those 18-wheelers sitting at the truck stops idling on for hours? They're all diesels.

 

[odleefs]

Hey Rolando,

The Toolcat price can be widdled down as you mentioned in your post (also, I think you made a typo. as the 2.2Liter is <font color="black"> 46 </font> HP HP/Torque/Consumption Chart for the <font color="orange"> Kubota </font> 46HP <font color="red"> Toolcat </font> ). Keep in mind that if you need high flow (let's say for a stumpgrinder), the 56 HP Turbo is mandatory. I think the price difference between the 46 and 56Turbo is ~$1,300.

If you don't plan on using on public roads, at night or in snow(hopefully no blizzards in your neck of the woods!) or fog or other reduced visability situations, deleting the deluxe road lighting pkg can save you ~$1500. You could inquire on other lighting packages or opt out of all and hook up your own.

Steve

 

[Rolando]

I don't know where I was getting that 44 hp. I didn't realize that the cost difference between the 46 and the 56Turbo was so small. I had been thinking that is was $3 or $4k. $1,300 doesn't seem so much for an extra 10 hp. I'm not sure if I would need it though. My land is flat, so hills aren't an issue. In what other circumstances do you all think that the extra horsepower would come in handy?

I've also been thinking about the high-flow. The only things I would need that use the aux. hydraulics would be the Grapple and the Mower deck. And I don't think you would need the high-flow for the 72" mower, although it will have about a 50% higher tip speed with the high-flow (11,960 ft./min. @ 15 gpm versus 17,542 ft./min. @ 22 gpm). Is this significant for a better cutting result?

I wouldn't be taking the Toolcat on the road, I'm too far out to be able to drive anywhere at 18 mph. The lights that come with the cab (and there are a lot of them!) would be enough.

Does anybody know what Bobcat means by "assisted leveling" that will be added with the C Series? Or what the new FEL lift rating will be for the redesigned lift arm?

BTW, I have been nagging Muhammad about creating a new forum category for the Toolcat. He wrote back today and said he would do it soon. He asked me if there were any other machines that could be combined with it. I told him I didn't think there was in the U.S. But I did mention that the <font color="blue">Unimog</font> has some shared characteristics, although obviously a much larger machine. If he wanted a broader theme, I suggested that he could call the forum "Toolcat and other Hybrid Utility Vehicles" or "Hybrid and Multi-function Utility Vehicles". If any of you have some better or different ideas, you should PM him.

 

[odleefs]

Rolando,
I had the same thought regarding HP when I was deciding upon the TC. For $1,300, the 10 extra Turbocharged Horses is hard to turn down. That said, I was spending my own money, and I won't tell you how to spend yours!

I would think long and hard if my land was pancake flat, as you may not need the extra HP. I would ask the dealers in your area if they sell more 46 or 56T units, as this may shed some light upon the best engine for you. In an earlier post you also mentioned that you have a friend who is knowledgeable in heavy equipment...get his opinion. I would also compare the torque/HP/Consumption curves from www.kubotaengine.com.
46 HP and 56Turbo
My 30 acres is quite hilly (in the steepest part of my paved driveway, my max speed in the Toolcat @2650 rpm is ~ 9-10 mph in high gear) so I easily justified this expenditure...whereas the high flow was easy to exclude as I will probably never use any high flow rated equip.

Regarding the high flow and mowing...the regular flow does a fantastic job mowing the lawn...though, I have no idea how the lawn looks at the higher flow. Maybe I don't want to know /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. Regarding all of your other questions...I don't know how the assisted leveling will work. My dealer mentioned that rollback at maximum height will be limited as there were a few instances of material falling onto the cab, but he didn't know the specifics. I keep forgetting to inquire about the level assist.
Also inquire about the lights on the Toolcat, as I don't think the work lights come with the cab, need to check.

The possibility of a Toolcat/Hybrid/Multipurpose Utility Vehicle forum is great news...I'm sure everyone else will agree with this also, as they are probably sick of us posting in their specific areas!

Steve

 

[odleefs]

<font color="brown"> Does anybody know what Bobcat means by "assisted leveling" that will be added with the C Series? Or what the new FEL lift rating will be for the redesigned lift arm? </font>

Rolando,
This may be how it works, or something similiar... Self leveling loader Toward the end of the second paragraph is what is most vital (paraphrased as decreasing the tendency for material to roll back onto the machine or operator thus increasing safety). I have heard that the rated operational capacity of the boom will not change (thus remaining 1500 lbs.).

Was informed yesterday that my unit was delivered! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif The spray bed liner is being applied and I will take delivery next week! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Steve

 

[kevincook]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( (11,960 ft./min. @ 15 gpm versus 17,542 ft./min. @ 22 gpm). Is this significant for a better cutting result? )</font>

The 17,000 fpm speed should give a much better cut on a lawn than the lower speed. I think you will find that most finish mowers from Kubota and others have speeds between 16,500 and 19,000 fpm.

If your curious go over to lawnsite and ask the professionals what they think about 12,000 fpm. I am sure they will tell you that it is not fast enough for a good cut.

Good Luck
Kevin

 

[odleefs]

Kevin,
That is actually an interesting point. Bobcat does not call their mower a finishing mower, per se, due to this lower speed. In fact, Bobcat says the application is for rough cut areas and in my experience, the blades sheer thru 1" woody material without even a hic-up, so I would say they are right on.
The Toolcat regular hydraulic flow is 18 g/m so the actual speed is ~14,400 feet/minute blade tip speed for the 72" three spindle industrial strength mower. No, not a finish cut speed but quite nice, nonetheless! I thought I may need the high flow for a better cut, but after demoing the regular flow and the 72" mower, I would venture only a Country Club/Golf Course/Stadium type venue would appreciate the difference.
I was using a gang of reel mowers on my lawn (you know, the kind that golf courses use). I mowed with the Toolcat/72" mower and my father-in-law asked me what kind of mower the lawn service used to cut our lawn because the cut was so nice!
Steve

 

[odleefs]

Rolando,
Here is a copy of an email that I recently received from Bobcat regarding the C series Toolcat. As you can read for yourself, increased lift ability is specifically sited, but while this increase is mentioned, my dealer insists that the Rated Operational Capacity is unchanged at 1,500 lbs.!
Steve
P.S. The contact info is good to have also!

<font color="blue"> Steven,

Congratulations on your purchase of the new Toolcat!

The main improvements made to the new series deal with the boom. The B-series machine had a bucket rollback force of 670 lbs, where as your machine will be at 2500 lbs. This allows us to approve attachments on this machine (60" sweeper, 60" brushcat, 5B landscape rake, and the 62" combo bucket) that were not approved on the B-series.

The C-series will also have the ability to lift more than the earlier versions of the machine due to the redesigned lift arm and boom tower.

Other improvements would be assisted leveling, better air distribution through ducting changes and a larger blower, and interior sound improvement.

These will be all of the changes noticed by the end user of the machine. If you have other questions fell free to contact me any time.

Thanks,

Chris Knipfer
Product Intelligence & Training Specialist
Bobcat Company
250 East Beaton Drive
West Fargo, ND 58078

Phone: (701) 241-8748
E:Mail: Chris_Knipfer@bobcat.com
</font>

 

[odleefs]

Rolando,
You may appreciate reading the following thread discussing 'Hydraulically Actuated Mowing Options'
It is of interest to note that mower speed and dependent cut quality is also dependent on the amont of grass cut per rotation, yes, of course in ground travel speed, but also in the size of the blade and how much area each blade is responsible for. For example, a flail mower only cuts at 10-11K fpm, but the cut is great quality because each blade is only cutting a 3-4 inch swath! Something to think about...
Steve

 

[Rolando]

I got an email from Bobcat myself which will shed some additional light on this. BTW, I've been impressed by how responsive the Bobcat folks have been to questions! I hope the local dealer is as good as they are. Here are the questions (even my novice ones) and their responses, which agree with your information, but give additional detail:

<font color="blue">1. Will the C-Series improvements to the Toolcat, which are now under production, be available for both the regular 5600 and 5600 Turbo models?</font></font>

The C-series comes in both standard 5600 and turbo versions. The new lift arm and boom tower will not be retrofittable to the older (A and B-series) machines, however.

<font color="blue">2. One of those improvements is a redesigned tilt linkage that will provide assisted leveling of the bucket and other attachments. Can you give me more information about how this feature will work and make it easier to level the bucket as you're raising the arm?</font>

The new geometry for the tilt linkage reduces the tilt angle throughout the lifting curve so the load is fairly level to truck bed height (60"), but then tilts back more as the arm gets past mid-lift point. Thus, the operator does not need to roll out the attachment very much to keep the load level if desired. This is what we mean by assisted leveling. This is a benefit because a heavy pallet can be difficult to control if the operator does not have a lot of experience and has not acquired the "touch" necessary to keep a pallet level without making the machine bounce from the weight. Older versions of the Toolcat tilted back a great deal -up to 85 degrees at max lift vs. only 30 degrees for the C-series. A greater tilt angle is good for keeping dirt in the bucket when lifting, but it's difficult to keep a pallet load level.

<font color="blue">3. I'm curious, is it technically feasible for the loader to automatically maintain whatever bucket angle the operator sets before he starts to lower or raise the arm, if the operator doesn't move the joystick to the left or right (curl or dump)?</font>

That is what we call parallel lift and, yes, it is technically feasible. Given the versatility of the machine with 30 plus attachments, we feel it would not benefit our customers a great deal to have this feature. The assisted lift mentioned in question 2 is a variation on this that allows the use of many other attachments that wouldn't benefit from parallel lift.

<font color="blue">4. I also understand that the lift capabilities and rollback force of the loader have been improved. Could you tell me what the new ratings are?</font>

The new rollback force is 2,500 lbs on the C-Series vs. 670 lbs for the older version. The lift capability improvement is simply the ability to lift a 2,000 lb pallet to flat bed truck height (60") vs. 47" for the older Toolcats. The rated operating capacity is still 1500 lbs, however.[/i]</font>