Fuel Tailer

[mrcaptainbob]

Sounds like a good project, Eddie. Do use the 7# to calculate, Add that to your estimated trailer and tank weight. Sounds like you're getting close there to that axle capacity. And, although the axle may be able to carry the load, verify the load rating on whatever tires you use. Also, figure about 10% to 12% on the tongue weight after filling. How different are the tank sizes? Do you think it would adversely affect handling? I believe there's also some laws/codes on having electric brakes at a certain weight in some areas. I wish there was something similar I could do for gasoline. I got guts, but not enough for that! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[KiotiJohn]

Correct about the weight of diesel. Depending on season and content it's usually between 6.96 and 7.2 pounds/gal. The US average is 7.1#. John

 

[EddieWalker]

Thanks for all the great input!

The smaller tank has a plate on it saying its capacity is 100 gallons, but fill level is 90 gallons. The larger tank is longer, but thinner. I'd guess it's gonna hold another 20 gallons or so.

For calculating, lets say 220 gallons total. Using the correct figure now, 7lbs a gallon puts me at 1,540lbs of fuel. The tanks, the trailer and wood shouldn't be more that 700lbs. That still puts me well below my axle capicity of 3,500lbs.

I've decided to put on brand new tires. Walmart has some in the $30 each range. That just seems like cheap insurance and the smart thing to do.

The reason for having a dedicated trailer to haul and store diesel is to not have to handle it. I want to be able to drive a tractor up to it, plug in the 12 volt pump and fill up. Keep it quick, clean and simple.

200 gallons should last me a full week of working hard, depending on what I'm running the most.

Resale should also be fairly easy when I'm done with it. I saw a 300 gallon tank with pump on a trailer advertised for $1,000 not too long ago.

I have an old truck inner tube that I'll use to keep the aluminum tanks off the PT wood. No point risking it, especially since I have the tube already.

Eddie

 

[fishman]

Eddie,

In my opinion, if you're going to buy new anyway, you should buy some trailer tires rated for the capacity you intend to carry. Many people buy passenger tires to save $20, and they aren't rated for trailers.

For example, my 7k trailer with two axles has 14" trailer tires. They hold 60 psi and the combined weight rating for all four exceed the 7k rating of the two axles.

A good brand is Goodyear Marathons, although there are probably others out there just as good.

 

[Bird]

Of course, I agree with fishman about buying the "special trailer" tires and suspect you already are familiar with that. If not, the trailer tire size on the sidewall includes an "ST" just as light truck tires include the "LT" with their size. And the Goodyear Marathons are good. I put them on my fifth-wheel trailer because they were the first "radial" trailer tires. Of course, later I was selling B.F. Goodrichs when they came out with radial tires for trailers and I'm sure there are lots of other good brands available, also. I've read (don't know for sure) that the ST tires have a slightly different chemical makeup to make them more resistant to weather cracking caused by UV rays.

 

[ns_in_tex]

Eddie,

I think you will enjoy the trailer mounted tank.
If your gas supplier would give you an old pump, you might want to do what I did.

This is an old skid tank, with a manual pump on one end, which I never use. I have an inverter on my truck, so if I happen to be away from elect supply, just run it off the inverter.

I have since installed a regular ball hitch & tongue jack, safety chains, ETC.

 

[fractal]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Eddie, I think Rambler is right about the DOT law. I thought I remembered it being told to me as 110 gal. )</font>

That's what I remember the hazmat limit for combustable materials (diesel) being as well. Flamable materials (gasoline) is a LOT less.

I bought a book from northern tool on how to build trailers. It had some very interesting hints. Two of them are to buy a proper step hitch to keep the trailer level and never, never weld a hitch to the top of your a-frame. That puts a heap and bunch of stress on your weld in ways they aren't strong.

The point about ST rated tires can not be overstated. Your normal automotive tires / rims are rarely rated at over 1200-1500 pounds per tire and are often rated less. It would be a shame to have a 3500 pound axle but be limited to 2400 pounds by your tires and 1800 by your rims.

 

[Joe1]

You've been geting advice from all over the place, and I agree with it; not that my opinion should be your concern.

I will add one recommendation.

You need to check into grounding the tank as there may be an issue with static electricity while filling and emptying the tank.

Where I purchase my off road diesel, the distributor wants the tank on the ground while it's being filled. It may not be an issue in your area.

As bird mentioned, you need to ensure that the tires will also carry the load you intend to haul.


Good luck.

Joe

 

[EddieWalker]

I didn't think about grounding it. One of those things that never occured to me. I don't know if I need it or not. I haven't seen it in any other trailers, but it's a good idea.

How would I go about grounding it?

Would running a wire from the tank to the frame worK?

That really isn't ground like I think your talking about, but just negative off the DC battery.

What about a wire off the tanks that I could clip onto a ground source at the filling station?

Thanks for all the good advice!!!!

Eddie

 

[btolle]

Think about it for a minute: 18 wheelers are sitting on 18 rubber tires that insulate them from the ground.

Portable gasoline containers are supposed to be filled out of the vehicle, but gasoline fumes are different than diesel fumes.

I doubt that grounding will be an issue with the trailer mounted setup.

Bill Tolle

 

[Joe1]

I think you will find that when those 18 wheeler fuel tankers unload at your local station, they are grounded.

I know Diesel is not as dangerous as gasoline, all I'm saying he may want to check to see if there is a grounding issue; particularly in light of the fact that another poster commented that he might be consider a fuel transporter over 99 gallons.

I'm not shooting him down; I like his idea, but if he can avoid running afoul of the regulators and be safer to boot, it may be worth his while to investigate it.

I wish him luck on his project.

 

[rambler]

Diesel isn't so bad, but gasoline it is quite an issue - grounding.

Those 18 wheelers will be using grounded fuel hose, and also a ground strap in most areas of the country to unload. One most likely will buy the cheaper ungrounded hose without thinking.....

Using a rubber innertube as he is, there are several grounding issues, from the tank to the vehicle, from the tank to earth, and even from the vehicle to earth - as well as if an electric fuel pump is being used. As fuel flows, it creates a weak static charge - ignoring any other discharge sources. Due to the size of his tank, he needs to cover his behind on this issue. Again, diesel is not much of an issue on this (gasoline always has the right evaporated fuel mix _somewhere_ around the tank when transfering, up here in MN a few fires are caused by the static electricity from touching the car & getting a little static spark in the dry air of winter...), but local & distributor rules on this should be considered. Sounds like he checked that out tho....

The fuel supplier will have grounded hose, so filling should be covered, and he likely will not unload more than 20 gallons at a time so the static will not build up a whole lot. But grounded hose on his tank would be a better idea, and/or a ground clamp when he unloads. Even if it is an 'issue', it only will cause a problem one in many thousand cases so one of those things we all ignore....

As the other person said, I'm not against the project, just some things to consider for the size of his project. Hate for him to find surprises after the fact. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Officials will become concered about how much volume of fuel can be transfered at one time (creating a bigger static charge) and if the hoses involved are grounded type.

--->Paul

 

[EddieWalker]

If I wire the tanks to the trailer frame, will that help with grounding?

For power to run my 12 volt pump, I'm planning on using towing plugs used for trailers. Four prong. Since I only need two wires out of four, could I dedicate one as a ground from the pump to the trailer frame to the tractor.

Most of my unloading of fuel will be at the same location. Would a ground rod be a good idea. I could clamp onto it easy enough when I park the trailer, and remove it when I get more fuel. The same ground cable could be used to ground at the fueling station.

My CUT will ony take 7 or 8 gallons, my backhoe will usually take around 20 gallons, but my dozer will be around 50 gallons at a time.

Last year there was a guy on the news who caught on fire from static electricity fueling his car at a gas station. It was all on film. Quite scarry!!!!!!!!! I'm very concerned about creating a time bomb or burning to death.

Thanks to everyone for your advice and suggestions.
Eddie

 

[Joe1]

Obviously, diesel is not as dangerous as gasoline. Gasoline flash point is something like -47 degrees F. The guy at the gas station today refilling the tanks said that the hoses on the fuel truck that dump into stations have ground wires built into the hoses themselves so they automatically ground when the probe is put in the tank.

 

[rambler]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Obviously, diesel is not as dangerous as gasoline. Gasoline flash point is something like -47 degrees F. The guy at the gas station today refilling the tanks said that the hoses on the fuel truck that dump into stations have ground wires built into the hoses themselves so they automatically ground when the probe is put in the tank. )</font>

You can buy the same (grounded hose) for your own use as well - highly recommended for gasoline gravity flow, I believe required for gasoline & an electric pump. Nice to have on diesel as well, but as you say, it's not such an issue.

--->Paul

 

[mrcaptainbob]

All the gas station fuel hoses are 'grounded' type. The nozzles and filler necks are designed to make a purposeful contact. The flow of fuel through a hose causes a static buildup. That's the reason for the mandate of refueling the standard 5 gallon containers on the ground. Must be taken out of the vehicle. The explosion usually happens when the gas can is on a plastic bed liner, effectively insulating it from ground. The static build up is not dissipated. When the nozzle is removed, the spark makes the jump..... Use a hose that's made for gasoline transport. Nozzle, too. You might be able to get a lot of info from the California Air Resources Board on the 'right' way of hooking it all up. May make for dry reading, but it's all in there.

 

[EddieWalker]

I did a few more things on the trailer the other day.

I bought some fittings to run two hoses from the bottom of each tank. When I put the tank into it's bracket to mount it, I realized I didn't take into consideration how far down the elbows would be. ooops.

I added a 2X4 undet the 4X6 cradle and replaced the eight inch bolts with ten inch ones.

 

[EddieWalker]

My thinking is to fill one tank and have the fuel flow through the hoses into the other tank. This will balance itself out and allow me to keep the pump on one tank and the fill cap on the other.

Here are the hoses on the pump tank after the spacer was installed.

 

[EddieWalker]

The pump tank is mounted and ready to go.

Tires were an issue. I agree with the earlier advise about using good trailer tires. It's cheap insurance.

I brought the tires to a local tire shop to get new ones mounted on the rims. It turns out the 14 inch rims are not very common for trailers and the tires would be over $100 each. They also had to be special ordered from the Dallas area.

$300 or more for tires seemed a bit extreme. I declined those ones and went to the guy I bought my Centruy tractor and my 16 ft trailer from.

He sold me three brand new ST 205/75D15 6 ply Loadstar tires on brand new 15 inch rims for $59 each. It seemed like a really good deal!!!!

 

[JD3130]

Looks like you are getting enough advice. I agree with most of it. I don't think you will have much trouble in Texas. Some of the trailers i see around here scare the heck out of me. Did you put farm tags on it?. They are only $5.00, and the law pretty much leaves us alone, unless we really do something stupid. Just be sure you are really eligible to use them. When you replace those tires, get your next ones from your farmer's coop, mine get me Cooper 15" 12ply tires for about 72.00. Load range H. Great tires, just don't ever try to change one by hand, whoeeeee!!!!
If you park it in the same place all the time, why not just drive a ground rod in the ground right there? Paint it Orange, or flag it! so you don't forget to unhook it when you move the trailer.
All you need now is to paint it Green.
JD