Fuel to injector pump, but won't start. Solenoid and injector questions

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

BX25D. Died, restarted, then died when parked and will not restart. The battery is good (I keep my charger on it while testing) and the motor spins over normally.

Fuel flow to injector pump is good. Plenty of flow. Verified by removing hose after the second filter and watching it while turning on key. The lift pump functions normally and both filters are new.

The solenoid clicks when the key is turned to the ON position, and again when it turns OFF. When the key is turned on, the solenoid is in the OUT position. When it is turned off, it retracts to the IN position and operates the lever on the injection pump. Then, after a few seconds, it extends again and turns to the OUT position. (See pictures below.)


This is the solenoid position when the tractor has not been running for a while, and when the key is turned to the ON position.
View attachment 493133


This is the solenoid when the key is first turned OFF.
View attachment 493132


It returns to the ON position about 10 seconds after the key is turned OFF.


Is this normal behavior?


Next questions. I cracked the lines to the injectors and turned it over. I got some seepage. How much is normal? What should I see?

 

[dodge man]

Its normal it returns to the on position a few seconds after it turns off. To me it seems you should get more than some seepage when trying to start it but I'm not sure.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Okay, thanks for that. Looks like it's probably not the solenoid, then.


Anyone else? How much fuel should come out of the injectors if I loosen their connections?

 

[94BULLITT]

Are you sure your fuel gauge is working?

 

[thepumpguysc]

The fuel should be squirting out from the loosened lines.
If the solenoid is coming off of its stop completely, its working.
You could disconnect it entirely just t get it out of the system to diagnose the situation.
It sounds like the main control rack is stuck??
Is there an access plate to the rack on the side, just below the injection pump?
Remove it and see if the rack is moving when operating the shut-off lever..
Sometimes you can free them up by hand.. other times it requires pump removal and repair.
Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

The fuel should be squirting out from the loosened lines..

Okay, I'll try that again. I actually had my son do this test, and perhaps he didn't loosen things enough, so I want to see for myself.

If the solenoid is coming off of its stop completely, its working.
You could disconnect it entirely just t get it out of the system to diagnose the situation..

I'll do that.

It sounds like the main control rack is stuck??
Is there an access plate to the rack on the side, just below the injection pump?
Remove it and see if the rack is moving when operating the shut-off lever...

Dunno anything about the inside of an injection pump. I'll take a look and see what I can see. I take it the control rack is a moving part that cuts off fuel in response to what the solenoid does?


Thanks for the help!

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Well, I have no clue how to find the access plate, and not knowing anything about injection pumps, I don't want to start taking things apart blindly. So, I did a few basic tests. I'm starting to wonder if I have a glow plug problem. Please take a look at things and tell me what you think.

Here's what the exhaust looks like while cranking:

exhaust while cranking - YouTube


Here's the fuel coming out of the injector pipe when cranking.

injector seepage while cranking - YouTube

These are my glow plugs. Kinda sooty.... Is that normal? Voltage at the buss bar while the GPs are engaged is about 3 volts, so they are drawing significant current.

View attachment 493244



Here are each of the three glow plugs with power applied. Is this hot enough, fast enough? I know on my 6.2 they should get about white hot, so these dont't look hot enough to me, and they are pretty slow to heat up. The battery is at full charge and my charger/starter is hooked up, so they are getting full voltage. Anyone know the correct resistance for a good glow plug?

Glow plug 3 - YouTube

Glow plug 2 - YouTube

Glow plug 1 - YouTube

 

[thepumpguysc]

Your still pumping air on the loosened injector line.. Loosen ALL the lines at once and compare the squirts.
The GP's are ok.
The voltage on the GP bar should be 8v or greater. You know it takes 15 sec to heat, so count over 15..
It sounds to me like its hitting on 2 cylinders and not on 1.. that might be your whole problem??
How about posting a vid of the inj. pump.. top & sides.
it looks like we're gonna have to talk you thru removal.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Okay, thanks for that. I'll hit it tomorrow and measure the voltage again at 15 seconds just to be sure. Their resistance will increase with heat, so I expect to see the voltage rise.

I'll get some pictures of the injector pump, and I'll see what happens with all of the injectors loose.

 

[94BULLITT]

Glow plugs won't keep it from running or cause it to bad.

Why did you change your fuel filters? How long after that did it run bad and not start?

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Glow plugs won't keep it from running or cause it to bad.

You are exactly right. Sometimes in the heat of things we forget the obvious. Thank you for clearing my head on that.

Why did you change your fuel filters? How long after that did it run bad and not start?

The Story:

The tractor was occasionally losing power, and once in a while, stalling. Let it sit for a bit, and it would be fine. It got worse over the summer. Finally decided I must have something in the tank. Tried draining the tank (pumped it out) and vacuumed it out as well as I could. I changed both filters. (first one was really bad, but the second one was clean.) Ran okay for a few weeks, then started bogging again, and as my son was bringing it up to the garage to look into the matter, it died.

So, I flushed the tank backwards. How? I have a 12v pump for fueling, with two separate filters, a 10 micron sediment filter followed by a 2 micron with water block. I rigged some fuel hose to suck fuel OUT of the tank, through the filters, and INTO the tank via the normal tank outlet, just before the first filter. Ran that way for a few hours to try to clean any floating junk out of the tank. Changed both filters.

We have not been able to start it since, SO, it's possible that we cleared a fuel problem out of the tank, and now we have a GP problem.


Had a really busy day today with other things (newborns will mess with your schedule!) and didn't get to anything on the tractor today. I'll try on Monday.

I do appreciate your generous help, gentlemen!

 

[dodge man]

Filters clogged all the time is still possible. Just make sure you are getting fuel out of that second fuel filter with the key on. It sounds like you have already done this but I'd check again.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Bother. It rained all day yesterday and it's doing the same today. At this rate, I won't get my hands on it until Saturday....

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Well, Saturday came around, and a high temp of a whopping 24 degrees. I decided to remove all three of the injector lines at the same time and get a good look at how much fuel is coming out of the lines to the injectors.

I'm glad it's cold today! It made the problem obvious, as you'll see in these pictures. Ice crystals. I saw them as soon as I had them opened up. I cranked it over anyway just to see, and got one good spurt out of one line, and then nothing. It's clearly a lot, and it's clearly through the system.

I guess that just might be why it's not starting.

So what's the procedure for getting it out of there?


View attachment 494206

View attachment 494207

View attachment 494208

 

[94BULLITT]

Warm it up some way to get rid of the ice. Can you get it inside? Then get it running. You may want to drain the tank if the fuel is that bad.

Have you been using any fuel additives?

You need to put a Racor filter on it.

Where have you been buying fuel?

 

[moship]

Besides the ice, what are the yellow chunks in the 1st photo and possibly the 3rd photo? I'd be a bit worried where they came from and why they are in this location.

Reference the circled area:

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Warm it up some way to get rid of the ice. Can you get it inside?

The only "inside" I have is my house. I think that's not going to work.

Then get it running. You may want to drain the tank if the fuel is that bad.

I will be doing that!

Have you been using any fuel additives?

Just Stabil.

You need to put a Racor filter on it.

The interesting thing is that I have a water filter on my fuel pump. I'm guessing it's been maxed out.

Where have you been buying fuel?

Free home heating oil from someone converting to electric heat. I got about 100 gallons and the tank.

I'm pretty sure that my problem is my boys have been pretty careless about keeping the fuel barrels covered. I've been on them about it, but I guess the damage is done.

Besides the ice, what are the yellow chunks in the 1st photo and possibly the 3rd photo? I'd be a bit worried where they came from and why they are in this location.[

I saw those, too. I was hoping someone here could shed some light on them. Hmmm. Wax?


I have a 12v pump that I used to pump fuel out of 55 gallon barrels. I'm wondering if I can use that to circulate an additive to clean up the water in the system. Any ideas?

 

[moship]

Before trying to salvage your existing fuel, I'd be cleaning out the tanks, lines and such from the tractor and refilling with fresh known to be good diesel. Get the tractor running and then focus on decontaminating the existing fuel.

Fuel storage tank(s): Before adding any fuel conditioner, perhaps it would be best to filter the fuel first to remove as much water as possible before adding any additive.

 

[94BULLITT]

Do you have a heat lamp?

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Before trying to salvage your existing fuel, I'd be cleaning out the tanks, lines and such from the tractor and refilling with fresh known to be good diesel. Get the tractor running and then focus on decontaminating the existing fuel.

Fuel storage tank(s): Before adding any fuel conditioner, perhaps it would be best to filter the fuel first to remove as much water as possible before adding any additive.

That's my plan at this point. I plan to pick up a fresh 5 gallon can tomorrow. I'll get the on-road kind so the dye doesn't interfere with seeing the condition of things. I figure I'll disconnect the tank behind the first filter (before the lift pump) and plug that temporarily, then feed the lift pump from the fresh fuel, with a de-icer additive. (Diesel 911?) And yes, I do have a heat gun and a portable room heater that should warm up the filters, lift pump, injection pump, and injectors.

If I can get it running I'll let it idle a good bit to warm everything up well.

Then I'll tackle de-watering the rest of the fuel. Tractor tank first, then the barrels.

I've been using a water-absorbing filter on the fuel pump. I think I probably need to add a seperator with a glass bowl so I can keep an eye on things, and just have the absorber as a 2nd stage.

Sound like a plan? Any recommendations on additive?